Why is it so slow in here?

[Spence]

"Keep on the Border Land" -- Classic

 

On the others ("Against the Slave Lords" or "Against the Giants") there are Pregens and they (for the most part) take place in the same place (for the most part...).

 

~ N

 

(Ok...in "Against the Giants" you go into a Wooden Keep, then Underground, then into a Fiery place, then eventually to a Cloud Castle...then eventually you fight Drow...but that's all ok...not necessarily the "same"...but still fun!!!)

 

 

Good examples.  I was just leaning more heavily on using the adventure and pregens as an integral part of FC as a whole and their use as examples for later break down in Part Two.

[Nadrakas]

I think we are on different wave lengths

 

I am talking about a Fantasy complete book that has:

 

Part One

1) Simplified Character Generation

2) A batch of pregens using the simplified Character Generation

3) Simplified rules to play

4) simplified GM section with pregenerated Monsters and Treasure

5) an included adventure making use of 1-4.

Part Two

1) How Hero's toolkitting works

2) Hero creation rules

3) an under the hood breakdown of items from Part One.

 

All as a complete package written to be internally consistent.

Ah, thought so.

 

I think that the above is on target with what's been discussed.

 

I'd like to see some stand alone" adventures that have everything inside (pregen characters, the complete adventure itself, antagonists - NPCs/Monsters, "Powers" written up/expained, combat explained, etc -- basically a "how-to" for new players).

 

One of the things that I want to do is to make things as friendly and straight forward as possible.  The full blown Hero System can be intimidate, but honestly, for a lot of people d20 (3.0/3.5, 4.0), GURPS, Palladium, and most other systems can too, if you've never played them (I've even had people say that VtM was "complicated"...).

 

 

~ N

[Spence]

Ah, thought so.

 

I think that the above is on target with what's been discussed.

 

 

 

I'd like to see some stand alone" adventures that have everything inside (pregen characters, the complete adventure itself, antagonists - NPCs/Monsters, "Powers" written up/expained, combat explained, etc -- basically a "how-to" for new players).

 

 

I am 1000% with you there.  I just didn't catch on that you had moved to adventures that would be external to FC

 

 

One of the things that I want to do is to make things as friendly and straight forward as possible.  The full blown Hero System can be intimidate, but honestly, for a lot of people d20 (3.0/3.5, 4.0), GURPS, Palladium, and most other systems can too, if you've never played them (I've even had people say that VtM was "complicated"...).

 

I actually think that games like Pathfinder and D&D are more complicated due to the sheer volume of available options and the constant need to make sure a choice made at 3rd level doesn't close off an option at 7th level.   I've had that happen to me several times with the newer incarnations. 

 

I really like that with Hero I can do anything with just the one core book, which ever core book that might be. 

Edited December 20, 2013 by Spence

[Nadrakas]

That's what has to be decided.  Do we do a "Fantasy Complete" or a series of stand alone Adventures first?

 

This is what I would go for (In-order...more or less).

 

• Presenting the Hero System:  Short Intro to the Hero System.  Has a Complete Fantasy Adventure with everything self-contained, including several (6 ?) pregen characters, spells, normal items/magic items, NPCs, and monsters. Everything self contained.

 

• Hero Streamlined/Fantasy Complete (?): Basically what we've been talking about. A quick "down & dirty" character creation system.  Perhaps a setting (Maybe...see Setting below) with adventures.  Toolkitting in the back.

 

• Adventures (Basic): Self-contained adventures for new players.  All self-contained with fully created pregen characters.  All straight forward and ready to go with minimal set-up.  Make it as easy as possible on everyone involved.  Not "dumb"...just quick and fun.

 

• Adventures (Advanced): More robust adventures.  Pregen characters with more options.  Of course players can bring their own characters into the adventure.  Toolkitting in the back to explain how to modify the adventure (People who have been playing the Basic Adventures may pick these up...and might need some guidance afterall).

 

• A Setting Book: Somewhere in the above (With the adventures) I'd like a setting book.  This is only if Hero's won't allow for us to plug into any of the existing Hero Setting (Talking Copyright infringement here).

 

(Note: Fantasy is looking like the way we'll go...but let's not "lock" ourselves into this.  We might want a CyberFantasy, SteamFantasy, or even a straight forward Space Setting here.  Let's keep thing open for now. We don't fully know where this is going...yet. )

 

Again, I want to keep things as straight forward as possible.  Over explaining things, "extreme math" complexity (is there such a thing??), too much complexity in general, and just not explaining things well will turn people off and just drive people away. (In reality many other systems are just as -- if not more -- "math intensive" as Hero's.  It's just that Hero's does all the math at the beginning.)

 

I think that a few of the goals should be to make things easy and fun for new players, while at the same time easing any concerns they may have heard about the Hero System.

 

Peace.

 

~ N

[Nadrakas]

 

 

I am 1000% with you there.  I just didn't catch on that you had moved to adventures that would be external to FC

 

 

I actually think that games like Pathfinder and D&D are more complicated due to the sheer volume of available options and the constant need to make sure a choice made at 3rd level doesn't close off an option at 7th level.   I've had that happen to me several times with the newer incarnations. 

 

I really like that with Hero I can do anything with just the one core book, which ever core book that might be. 

The d20 3e Core Rules are fine as far as they go. It's when you start adding in all of the other plethora of books that things get little out of control, and ultimately lead to Unintended Consequences.  Even with the "Official" books, there are Feat (and class) combinations that can be overpowering.  Same goes for d20 4e.

 

It's hard to balance things in an RPG.

 

Shoot...you know what...I've changed my mind.  Let's all just switch over to RIFTS^®, where there is no attempt to balance things, and we can all play the "Biggest and Baddest thing that just came out in the Newest Book" - "You want 1,000 MegaDamage? Sure, go ahead, because Joe over there has 10,000 MegaDamage because he just bought the Newest Book!" (Actually...I like "most" of the setting.  Just not the Rules.  And I'm kidding about switching. ).

 

~ N

[Spence]

 

Shoot...you know what...I've changed my mind.  Let's all just switch over to RIFTS^®, where there is no attempt to balance things, and we can all play the "Biggest and Baddest thing that just came out in the Newest Book" - "You want 1,000 MegaDamage? Sure, go ahead, because Joe over there has 10,000 MegaDamage because he just bought the Newest Book!" (Actually...I like "most" of the setting.  Just not the Rules.  And I'm kidding about switching. ).

 

~ N

 

ROTFL!

 

Now that one hurt

[Nadrakas]

ROTFL!

 

Now that one hurt

Well, my wife does say that I'm a "Pain" sometimes.

 

Glad to be "of assistance."

 

 

~ N

[Lucius]

Why is it so slow in here?

 

 

It's not.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

not here right now, trying to catch up

[Nadrakas]

Why is it so slow in here?

 

 

It's not.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

not here right now, trying to catch up

Lucius, that could be real difficult.  How can you tell which way you are going?

 

~ N

[NuSoardGraphite]

Why is it so slow in here?

 

 

It's not.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

not here right now, trying to catch up

It was slow.  thats why i made this thread.  now its not slow anymore.  My work is done here.  (Achievement unlocked!)

[BlueCloud2k2]

Nadrakas Said:

 

This is what I would go for (In-order...more or less).

 

 

Presenting the Hero System: Short Intro to the Hero System. Has a Complete Fantasy Adventure with everything self-contained, including several (6 ?) pregen characters, spells, normal items/magic items, NPCs, and monsters. Everything self contained.

 

 

Hero Streamlined/Fantasy Complete (?): Basically what we've been talking about. A quick "down & dirty" character creation system. Perhaps a setting (Maybe...see Setting below) with adventures. Toolkitting in the back.

 

 

Adventures (Basic): Self-contained adventures for new players. All self-contained with fully created pregen characters. All straight forward and ready to go with minimal set-up. Make it as easy as possible on everyone involved. Not "dumb"...just quick and fun.

 

 

Adventures (Advanced): More robust adventures. Pregen characters with more options. Of course players can bring their own characters into the adventure. Toolkitting in the back to explain how to modify the adventure (People who have been playing the Basic Adventures may pick these up...and might need some guidance afterall).

 

 

A Setting Book: Somewhere in the above (With the adventures) I'd like a setting book. This is only if Hero's won't allow for us to plug into any of the existing Hero Setting (Talking Copyright infringement here).

This is precisely what I had in mind. And I think each should build on the next.

 

I don't know if anyone remembers TSR's Red Box or not (it included six pre-generated characters, some cheap minis, a double-sided map, a set of polyhedron dice, a diminished Monster Manual, Player's Guide, and DM's manual (with three introductory adventures).

 

I'm thinking we need to start with our own version of the Red Box.

 

And the pregenerated characters should be usuable in the introductory adventures. And I think 8 would be an optimal number so as to give players an opportunity to pick from a handful of race/archetype options.

 

Just throwing out some ideas here:

 

Tank: Human Fighter, Dwarven Paladin

Healer: Half-Elf or Human Priest

Mage: Elf (armed with a bow) or Human mage

Skill-Monkey: Human or Halfing Rogue

 

The question that has me stumped, is what sort of magic system should we use and how should we build it? I'm thinking a Multipower with the following Limitations: Charges, Gestures, Incantation, Requires Skill Roll, and Restrainable (Material Components) or OIF (Holy Symbol).

[Nadrakas]

This is precisely what I had in mind. And I think each should build on the next.

 

I don't know if anyone remembers TSR's Red Box or not (it included six pre-generated characters, some cheap minis, a double-sided map, a set of polyhedron dice, a diminished Monster Manual, Player's Guide, and DM's manual (with three introductory adventures).

 

I'm thinking we need to start with our own version of the Red Box.

 

And the pregenerated characters should be usuable in the introductory adventures. And I think 8 would be an optimal number so as to give players an opportunity to pick from a handful of race/archetype options.

 

Just throwing out some ideas here:

 

Tank: Human Fighter, Dwarven Paladin

Healer: Half-Elf or Human Priest

Mage: Elf (armed with a bow) or Human mage

Skill-Monkey: Human or Halfing Rogue

 

The question that has me stumped, is what sort of magic system should we use and how should we build it? I'm thinking a Multipower with the following Limitations: Charges, Gestures, Incantation, Requires Skill Roll, and Restrainable (Material Components) or OIF (Holy Symbol).

Sounds good (Again, if we decide to go with a Fantasy Setting...)

 

As for the "Power System," I'm not sure that using Power Frameworks for a Basic Adventure is the way to go.  I want to keep things as simple as possible.  I'd provide any "Power Users" with just a few straight forward Powers (all well explained on what they do & how they work in "game terms") and then move on to the adventure.   I mean...if we really had to use a Multipower, then I'd say that the Slots Lock out all other Powers, but that would be it.  Multipowers are kind of complicated beasts and I wouldn't want to have to start explaining things and then loose new players because of that.

 

Now, that being said, the more Advanced Adventures with Pregenerated Characters...sure, regular builds with all the "point savings" that we're familiar with.  No "House Ruling" here...but we should make good, solid builds, along with Power Frameworks (Both Multipower and VPP).  Of course, some explanation would be in order for any new players who pick up the product, so they don't get confused.  Hmmm...perhaps a rewrite of the characters from the Basic Adventures, incorporating their powers into a Multipower Framework? Just a thought.

 

I'm thinking of it as a Teaching Process, in that we're Teaching Heroes to other people.  Heck, I've done it with other games (Usually in person though...but the concept is the same.).

 

Peace

 

~ M

[Nothere]

O.k. Being a Johnny come lately to the topic three things in no particular order.

 

Keep on the borderlands. Ash great stuff. Now I'm gonna have to see if I can find it again. I know I still have isle of the advanced started where you hunt the black pearl.

 

So as for premade fantasy charecters Anyone get the villain book for 5th edition fh an were they any good?

 

Three so if you were going to make ageneric fh setting what would you make?

[Old Man]

Tank: Human Fighter, Dwarven Paladin

Healer: Half-Elf or Human Priest

Mage: Elf (armed with a bow) or Human mage

Skill-Monkey: Human or Halfing Rogue

 

I'm sorely tempted to put in pregen characters that are impossible or not competitive in other systems.  A wizard with a sword.  An experienced but aged warrior with underwhelming physical stats.  A lightly armored fighter.  A clergyman who's a thief.

 

There pretty much has to be an elf, though. 

 

 

 

 

The question that has me stumped, is what sort of magic system should we use and how should we build it? I'm thinking a Multipower with the following Limitations: Charges, Gestures, Incantation, Requires Skill Roll, and Restrainable (Material Components) or OIF (Holy Symbol).

 

Honestly I still prefer the original no-framework magic 'system'.  It's simpler.  Points cost could be an issue.

 

I'd avoid charges because I'd like to get away from Vancian magic.  I think that's another good selling point for FH over other systems.

[Ninja-Bear]

Old Man, I'm not a hundred percent sure with the newest editions of DnD but the wizard with a sword might be possible.  What I seen, they loosed up a bunch of restricitons in third edition-I.e you can have a dwarf cleric now.

 

Some thoughts on magic.  i like the old college system from fantasy hero.  But to show some of the versitility of Hero system, make minor adjustments mechanically to show how special effects can be different.  Lets look at the elves.  Typically they are shown has being inherently magical.  How can we express this without to much difficulty? One idea is that the elves in their package have a +2 to magic (power) skill roll. Note that this only adds if the character has the skill roll to begin with.  Or perhaps that this is better represented bya custom  perk?.  Another would be having a rule that magic roll must be defined by aspecific magic collegeand trying to cast an unfamilier college is a -3.  I.e. a fire mage with a 11- trying to cast a water spell is a 8-.  However a elf being being magical doenst suffer this penalty-perhaps a custom talent? So an elf fire mage casting a water spell is an 11-. Finally, since elves are so long lived, they don't dont need a magic skill roll, however they still need to make an ego roll to cast a spell.

[Nadrakas]

I'm sorely tempted to put in pregen characters that are impossible or not competitive in other systems.  A wizard with a sword.  An experienced but aged warrior with underwhelming physical stats.  A lightly armored fighter.  A clergyman who's a thief.

 

There pretty much has to be an elf, though. 

 

Not bad ideas.  Maybe not for the Basic Adventure (But then again...maybe..why not...).  I like this idea.

 

An older warrior with a peg leg (Lost it in a fight against an Orc/Ogre).

A Wizard with a drinking problem (Complete with a magical item that summons "Beer"...or a spell that does the same)

A Halfling Thief (Who is kind hearted and gives his money to an orphanage)

A Dwarven Wizard! (Who doesn't Drink or Curse)

A Cleric who lost his faith and is now a recluse (Perhaps the adventure is what he needs to regain his faith?).

A kind hearted Orc healer who helps those in need (And is a Pacifist)

A Wizard that wears metal armor

 

 

Honestly I still prefer the original no-framework magic 'system'.  It's simpler.  Points cost could be an issue.

 

I'd avoid charges because I'd like to get away from Vancian magic.  I think that's another good selling point for FH over other systems.

(Nod)  Agreed.  Unless we want to go with something completely different here, I'd stay with what we're all familiar with.  It's a good, solid base.

 

Not saying that later we can't build/create a setting with it's own "Power Style."  We could.  Just at first, I agree that it's a good idea that we take advantage of what already exists as much as possible.

 

~ N

[Lucius]

Lucius, that could be real difficult.  How can you tell which way you are going?

 

~ N

That's why it hasn't caught up yet - the bicephalous beast is going the wrong way!

 

 

Unlike a lot of you, who seem to be going the RIGHT way. i.e.

 

Yes, our pregens should be characters that would be impossible or difficult to do for the competition - but still familiar enough that our target audience wants to play them.

 

Avoid Power Frameworks. There are other ways to make Spells affordable.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pardon me, I need to go track down my lost mount. Not easy, I can never tell by the tracks which way it went...

[Nadrakas]

That's why it hasn't caught up yet - the bicephalous beast is going the wrong way!

 

 

Unlike a lot of you, who seem to be going the RIGHT way. i.e.

 

Yes, our pregens should be characters that would be impossible or difficult to do for the competition - but still familiar enough that our target audience wants to play them.

 

Avoid Power Frameworks. There are other ways to make Spells affordable.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pardon me, I need to go track down my lost mount. Not easy, I can never tell by the tracks which way it went...

All well put.  I've always believe that two heads are better than one.

 

And, I will say, at least you're not "Cat-Dog."

 

 

~ N

[NuSoardGraphite]

That's why it hasn't caught up yet - the bicephalous beast is going the wrong way!

 

 

Unlike a lot of you, who seem to be going the RIGHT way. i.e.

 

Yes, our pregens should be characters that would be impossible or difficult to do for the competition - but still familiar enough that our target audience wants to play them.

 

Avoid Power Frameworks. There are other ways to make Spells affordable.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Pardon me, I need to go track down my lost mount. Not easy, I can never tell by the tracks which way it went...

I generally like Frameworks for spell systems (specifically Multipowers.  I feel they work perfectly for the types of magic systems I like to simulate), however it is pretty easy to make spells affordable without frameworks.  Simply require that each spell have at least -2 worth of limitaions.  Gestures and Incatation are a no-brainer and that's at least -1/2.  Requires a Skill roll is another -1/2.  Full phase activation (cannot move and cast spells in the same phase) is another -1/2.  Just those standard limitations on spell casting is already -1 1/2!  

 

However I don't think one can avoid Frameworks if you want mages in the game with huge lists of spells to choose from.  You are going to either need to go Variable Power Pool, or Multipower.  That's really the only way that a huge library of spells is available without doing something clunky like an automatic -2 limitation discount for free like Turakian age.  

[Lucius]

 

As for magic, I like the idea of requiring a Skill roll, but hate the requirement to impose a penalty based on Active Points. It's ridiculously crippling for high Active Point spells, it leads to absurdly inflated rolls or to including a "+20 Skills Levels only to counter Active Point Penalty" construct, and it annoys players to have to remember a different penalty to apply for every single spell. I DO have a solution.

 

I've started requiring all magic to draw from a "Mana Pool" (END Reserve) and put the Requires a Roll Limitation on THAT. It still has the effect of requiring a roll for every spell, but if the penalty is based on the Active Points of the END being used I feel we can safely ignore the penalty altogether but still be good under Rules as Written.

 

One way to distinguish different types of spellcasters - IF WE WANT TO, remember we're trying to keep it simple - is by how they can RECover that END Reserve.

 

 

As for Elves as magical, one thing we can do is establish different "everyman" Skill sets - EveryHuman Skills, EveryDwarf Skills, EveryElf Skills. Just put a <= 8 Familiarity with Magic under the Elf list. Also, I like the idea of giving Elves Mage Sight.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding back on a palindromedary

 

 

Lucius Alexander

[Nadrakas]

I generally like Frameworks for spell systems (specifically Multipowers.  I feel they work perfectly for the types of magic systems I like to simulate), however it is pretty easy to make spells affordable without frameworks.  Simply require that each spell have at least -2 worth of limitaions.  Gestures and Incatation are a no-brainer and that's at least -1/2.  Requires a Skill roll is another -1/2.  Full phase activation (cannot move and cast spells in the same phase) is another -1/2.  Just those standard limitations on spell casting is already -1 1/2!  

 

However I don't think one can avoid Frameworks if you want mages in the game with huge lists of spells to choose from.  You are going to either need to go Variable Power Pool, or Multipower.  That's really the only way that a huge library of spells is available without doing something clunky like an automatic -2 limitation discount for free like Turakian age.  

On the Power Frameworks, I'd agree for a Setting book and for "Advanced Adventures."  As for "Basic Adventures" meant to introduce the system to New Players...I'd avoid them in order to streamline the play and to avoid over complicating things.

 

I think that Power Frameworks can come later in the process.

 

One problem with Power Frameworks though, is when you have a spell that has a long duration.  When you switch the active points around, then doesn't that turn the spell/power off?  That has been my understanding (And, if I'm not mistaken, has been explained that way in the forum and books...).  That makes it difficult to make duration spells without large Power Frameworks.

 

 

~ N

[Nadrakas]

As for magic, I like the idea of requiring a Skill roll, but hate the requirement to impose a penalty based on Active Points. It's ridiculously crippling for high Active Point spells, it leads to absurdly inflated rolls or to including a "+20 Skills Levels only to counter Active Point Penalty" construct, and it annoys players to have to remember a different penalty to apply for every single spell. I DO have a solution.

 

I've started requiring all magic to draw from a "Mana Pool" (END Reserve) and put the Requires a Roll Limitation on THAT. It still has the effect of requiring a roll for every spell, but if the penalty is based on the Active Points of the END being used I feel we can safely ignore the penalty altogether but still be good under Rules as Written.

 

One way to distinguish different types of spellcasters - IF WE WANT TO, remember we're trying to keep it simple - is by how they can RECover that END Reserve.

 

 

With Skill Rolls (Power Rolls), I think it's usually best that the Player define several "Powers" that work off of the same skill.  For example, a "Summoning" Skill to represent the Character's ability to cast different Summoning Spells (All of which Require a Skill Roll: Summoning), or a "Psi" Skill for Psionic Powers.  I've had players who wanted to define every power as having a separate Skills, and while this works...it get's frustrating for the player after a while when they have 5 or 6 different "Power" skills.

 

As for the Active Point penalty.  Other than ignoring it (Which is expressly forbidden per the Rules...), we could go with a -1 per 20 active points, but that reduces the Limitation to -1/4.

 

As for using a "Mana Pool" -- it shifts where the roll is at.  Not that it's a bad thing.  It can change the "flavor" of the magic -- which is good.  Perhaps a Requires a Skill Roll (Mana Convayence) at -1 per X END (??).  Then again...the same problem remains.

 

 

 

As for Elves as magical, one thing we can do is establish different "everyman" Skill sets - EveryHuman Skills, EveryDwarf Skills, EveryElf Skills. Just put a <= 8 Familiarity with Magic under the Elf list. Also, I like the idea of giving Elves Mage Sight.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Riding back on a palindromedary

 

 

Lucius Alexander

(Nod) Yes on Racial" Packages -- though I think you would have both "Inherent" Packages (See in dark, enhanced/lowered Characteristics.  This might be a good place for a +X to skills rolls with races that have "Inherent" bonuses with certain skills: Elves w/Magic, Halflings w/Cooking, Dwarves w/Everything Under the Sun!!! [i like Dwarves])  and Cultural Packages (With skills).

 

 

~ N

[Hyper-Man]

...

 

One problem with Power Frameworks though, is when you have a spell that has a long duration.  When you switch the active points around, then doesn't that turn the spell/power off?  That has been my understanding (And, if I'm not mistaken, has been explained that way in the forum and books...).  That makes it difficult to make duration spells without large Power Frameworks.

 

 

~ N

 

An ability with a continuing effect can be built with a Continuing Charge and last the length of the Charge without still tying up the Framework's Pool/Reserve.  When applied to a VPP there just needs to be some additional Limitations or House Rules to make sure that Charges are actually limiting.

 

Example:

killershrike's Vanican magic conversion uses VPP's combined with the requirement that ALL spells be built with 1 Charge (Continuing if for a lasting effect). The practical application of this idea produces a VPP that functions like an Equipment Pool in Dark Champions or Batman's Utility Belt VPP.  There are a Limited number of slots (operating like a Mulitpower) that can be used during any particular encounter but what those specific slots ARE can be swapped out at appropriate times (soldier is issued different gear, batman swaps out different bat-stuff at batcave, magic user memorizes different spells after a nights rest, etc..).

[Nadrakas]

An ability with a continuing effect can be built with a Continuing Charge and last the length of the Charge without still tying up the Framework's Pool/Reserve.  When applied to a VPP there just needs to be some additional Limitations or House Rules to make sure that Charges are actually limiting.

 

Example:

killershrike's Vanican magic conversion uses VPP's combined with the requirement that ALL spells be built with 1 Charge (Continuing if for a lasting effect). The practical application of this idea produces a VPP that functions like an Equipment Pool in Dark Champions or Batman's Utility Belt VPP.  There are a Limited number of slots (operating like a Mulitpower) that can be used during any particular encounter but what those specific slots ARE can be swapped out at appropriate times (soldier is issued different gear, batman swaps out different bat-stuff at batcave, magic user memorizes different spells after a nights rest, etc..).

Thank you.  I stand corrected.

 

Two Questions: 

1. Would this also apply to powers bought with Duration (Constant, Persistent, Inherent)?  Do they "stay on" when points are switched? (Persistent: If the Power costs END to maintain, then it remains turned on as long as the character still has positive END to “fuel”). So, switch points -- does the Power disappear?

 

2. What about Uncontrolled?  I could see a Character with a Power Framework unleashing a Power (Say, a Tornado), pumping END into it, then switching the points around in the Power Framework. So...would the Power disappear?

 

Forgive me for asking, but I'm simply trying to understand this.  I'm pretty sure that I know the answers...but I want to make sure here.

 

I also found the relevant part in the book:

 

As noted on 6E1 370, a Continuing Charge in a Power Framework remains in effect even if the character switches the Framework to another power. The rules don’t establish any specific limit on how long those Continuing Charges can be bought to last, so the GM should monitor this sort of power construct to prevent abusiveness. The intent of the rule is to allow interesting and logical powers (such as smoke grenades in a Multipower of weapons), not to provide characters with huge amounts of power cheaply.

 

 

Note: I'm not trying to drag this off topic.  If this is in another thread, then please point me there. "Sigh"...

 

 

~ N

 

EDIT: Added Question #2

Edited December 21, 2013 by Nadrakas

[Lawnmower Boy]

I think we are on different wave lengths

 

I am talking about a Fantasy complete book that has:

 

Part One

1) Simplified Character Generation

2) A batch of pregens using the simplified Character Generation

3) Simplified rules to play

4) simplified GM section with pregenerated Monsters and Treasure

5) an included adventure making use of 1-4.

Part Two

1) How Hero's toolkitting works

2) Hero creation rules

3) an under the hood breakdown of items from Part One.

 

All as a complete package written to be internally consistent with all the Part One sections designed to give a wide spread of examples.

 

I like Part One, but have my doubts about Part Two, because all of that has been published already, and tends to drive the page count up without giving casual readers much to invest themselves in. My thought is that instead of Part Two, you have appendices.

 

Why? Well, what made TSR? In the first place, timing. Those first boxed sets came out when there was nothing else like it on the market, and the market is big and growing. Forget doing that.  The '70s aren't coming back. 

In the second place, there was the creative ascendancy it achieved in the 1980s with products that grabbed mind share. And what were those products? The Adventurer's Guides that introduced non-weapon proficiencies? No. Those may have changed the game mechanics fundamentally, but hardly anyone cared about that. The 2nd Edition rewrite with its new Monster Manual? No. People grumbled, then they moved on. Evocative new settings like  Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape or Spelljammer? No. Just no.

 

I would argue that the one stroke of imagination that pushed TSR to the next level was the Underearth, and, specifically, the Drow. Why? Because the Drow were cool, which is hard to replicated, and because they were totally broken. It's that last that is so hard to replicate, and it is at the heart of Gygax's genius-that-looked-like-stupidity. Bad rules that you can drive a truck through go, at some point, to the next level, where they attract  a horde of players who want to drive trucks. That's what the appendices and additional material of first edition did, in general, and the brand was the stronger for it, even if hardly anyone ever used the psionics rules or the bard class as originally written. 

 

So the appendices need to replicate the Against the Drow. Here's my proposal on how to do it:

 

Appendix 1: A continuation of the adventure path from 5, introducing the "real" enemy and leading the PCs on through an evocative adventuring environment. And, no, I'm not smart enough to suggest what that should be, except that it should be exotic and familiar at the same time. A cityscape, maybe?

Appendix 2: an enemy. Of course, the point with putting all of this in an appendix is, he says (butter not melting in his mouth) that these enemies "break" the rules as given. By using the full flexibility of the Hero Toolkitting system, they are made to be too-powerful for their points by comparison with PCs built in 1) and 2).

Appendix 3: More pregen characters with interesting powersets appropriate to fight the enemies introduced in 2, perhaps drawing from other Hero settings. (Space Marine, superhero, Doc Savage clone, Punisher clone, different flavour of magic user.)

Appendix 4: coupon for a discount on the PDF download of the big rule book.