Champions' Iconic Characters (Blasphemy next 500 words)

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Acroyear

Can I blame you for it, anyway?

 

now I have to go see who Jennifer Garner is... James Garner, I'll give you that...

 

THIS is Jennifer Garner... Woof!

 

[Acroyear]

Is that a woof as in "what a dog" or a "woof" as in the the blood rushes out of my brain so fast it knocked the wind out of me?

 

Ok, I'll accept the Canadian people, as a whole, are sexier than Jennifer Garner (I don't like her face - I'm very picky about drooling over media stars). And we all know Canadians are easier -it's one of the top three reasons to visit. 1)Cheap, 2)Maple Creme Cookies, 3)Easy.

 

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Acroyear

Is that a woof as in "what a dog" or a "woof" as in the the blood rushes out of my brain so fast it knocked the wind out of me?

 

The later. She's very cute... especially in Daredevil. I like a woman who can prod buttock.

[Cybernaut]

Originally posted by Monolith

I did vote for Mother Raven... but don't tell anyone.

 

He's over here! Quick, bring the tar and feathers! (Just Kidding )

[tesuji]

My view on Ecs and FX/source...

 

When you look at VPPS and their "limited FX" things you see different levels of limitation...

 

extremely broad ones like MAGIC or MUTANT is only a -1/4 (and this reflects the basic sense the "one drain works vs any" while not really limiting the power selection atall. You are hosed in an antimagic field, not being able to dial up a techno-ray-gun.) These i tend to describe as SOURCE restrictions.

 

Narrower ones like fire powers or ice powers are a bigger limit because they tend to not only limit source but also power selection. These are at -1/2 or somesuch. (Admittedly, if your Gm considers FIRE HANDS as some sort of solid fire can act like real hands TK thingy, then these can be diluted enough to be as broad as the above and should get that much of a lim as well. ME? I don't allow fire force fields for -1/2.)

 

The problem is that with the Ec while there is a general restriction on common FX it does not specify at what level the limitation should be. This means that at some point the limitation is either being underplayed or overplayed without the points reflecting the capability.

 

EC Helpful withceries is a really broad category, or so it seems by the examples, while EC ice powers seems a lot closer to limiting powers as well as FX.

 

An Ec with a basic "source" limit such as magic is not as limited as one with a source and power selection limiting FX defined. However, since the vauge definition is the one we have, i doubt anyone would permit:

 

EC: Magic powers (-1/4 limited to ice powers only)

 

If instead they had given some basic level of restriction akin to "Ecs must have a FX limit at least as strong as that of the -1/4 level fpr VPPs" then we would have had a common reference to go on.

 

Better yet, if they had realized that "LIMITED FX" had meaning in more than one place... both in EC and in VPP, they cold have had an independent chart "Limited by FX" with a number of good examples showing us everything from "magic" and "mutant" to "ice power" and "shrinking power" and for both frameworks we could have a good point of reference. (Add in a paragraph about making these change based on campaign desires.)

 

Another possibility would be to say something like" reference the SFX frequency chart for the campaign (as seen in the Champions universe book IIRC) and to specify what level of frequency ECs have to meet.

 

Define a benchmark and then allow for advantages or limitations to reflect narrower ones.

 

then, everyone gets their monies worth and no more.

 

of course, we already have gaps in the Ec drain thing where things like DRAIN FLIGHT may or may not double drain based on Gm ruling as to whether he wants the double drain to happen if its not SFX based... using common sense, dramatic sense and maturity.

[SuperPheemy]

OT transmission from CLOWN HQ

 

That construct would have been history faster than CLOWN. :-)

 

Garble. FRRRRRRTZZZZZZTTTTTT ******* SHWASAAAAAAKKKKK*** WeeeeeeeoOooooooh*

 

(Screen comes in to focus on Merry Andrew again, this time wearing an Iraqi general's uniform and fake moustache a la Saddam Hussein)

 

"What Mr. Bennie fails to understand is that CLOWN does not belong to history. CLOWN makes History! To illustrate our point, we have taken the liberty of uncovering and altering certain documents from Mr. Bennie's past, that is to say, we have MADE SCOTT BENNIE'S HISTORY!

 

Or, in this case, remade Scott Bennie's History. So, Mr. Bennie good luck in all of your future endeavors when you're going to be hampered by the legacy of your PERMANENT GRADE SCHOOL RECORDS. Indeed! Imagine the glorious carreers that await someone who is now forever branded as a Looky-loo, a Silly-heart, and a Chatterbox. Indeed, you can only beg CLOWN's forgiveness to remove that gum-chewing incident in third grade.

 

You don't remember? Allow me to enlighten you. It was during a fire drill in the afternoon, you were waiting outside, and according to a Mrs. Eunice Greeley, Elementary School Safety Monitor, you were chewing gum in line! What's worse, you failed to bring enough for the entire school!!!!!!!!

 

Oh yes, your former normal, mundane past has been forever altered to a history of hooliganism. That perfect attendance you so enjoyed in sixth grade? GONE FOREVER!!!!

 

Let this serve as a lesson to all who would mock or oppose CLOWN! Our vengeance is swift and just!

 

Viva la Revolucion CLOWN!!!!"

 

(from off camera someone, maybe Dot, or perhaps Beuford shouts "Arrriba!" and fires a gun into the air. Snapshot calls for a wrap, and the transmission breaks back up into static.)

[GestaltBennie]

To do list:

 

1. Finish editing the teraphim chapter on Testament,

2. Repair damage to cover identity.

3. Eviscerate Merry Andrews, key the CLOWN-car.

4. Pick up a quart of milk.

 

Scott Bennie

[Scott Heine]

Originally posted by Acroyear

I'd kiss you. But I think you're to blame for goofy-ing up Deathstroke, so we'll just call it even...[/i]

 

No, that would be me, not Mr. Bennie. Does that mean I don't get a kiss?

 

-- Scott

 

P.S. Personally, I think Deathstroke needed to be "goofied up." I never liked the original characters' names or costumes. And they needed... something... to round them out and make them interesting. Yeah, the revision was written in a hurry, but I thought the concept of a villain team with a publicist was kinda fun...

[Blue]

I'll be honest in saying that I don't spend a lot of time studying the heroes and villains from the book unless there is one I have a use for. So when it comes to judging the SASv.Champions fights I've been going based on the author's interpretations of how each handles the other character's powers. So in most cases I'm swayed by the person's ability to tell a story.

 

I think both authors did a great job of telling the story of the fight between Mother Raven and Witchcraft, and so when it came down to it, I was pretty much split. In that case, tie went to champions. (Sorry, SAS.)

 

In the new one however I definitely like the SAS story better. I've just resisted voting for a whole day now because I hate to turn my back on the product I like better. But I may have to break down and vote for the SAS hero. I think Steve & Co. can respect that.

[cjudisch]

FWIW, I look upon characters (or any portion of a published setting) that i don't like as an opportunity. When I first picked up Champions Universe and read through it, I took note of the characters, places, and things that didn't jibe with my personal gaming style/tastes/what-have-you and put them into a list (CU is pretty good, so the list is relatively short).

 

Now, as I'm constructing adventures & plot-arcs for my campaign, the list of people, places, and things that i don't like is turning into a Hit List of things that are going to be destroyed.

 

For example (and I know I'm going to get hammered for this one), I'm not terribly fond of Foxbat. So after a few encounters with the PCs... ol' Freddie's gonna die.

 

It allows me to turn something I don't like about the setting into something i do.

 

Same thing with the members of the Champions team I don't like. Actually, the death's of Ironclad & Sapphire are going to form the central plot of the campaign's first adventure and the PCs will step up and flesh out the remainder of the team (swelling the groups total membership to seven as well).

 

I find that judicious use of the in-game deaths of established NPCs makes the campaign more dramatic and exciting.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Scott Heine

Personally, I think Deathstroke needed to be "goofied up." I never liked the original characters' names or costumes. And they needed... something... to round them out and make them interesting. Yeah, the revision was written in a hurry, but I thought the concept of a villain team with a publicist was kinda fun...

 

I LIKED what you did with Deathstroke... after the Destroke module they were already pretty much a joke with my group.

[Hermit]

The Champions, My thoughts

 

Actually, I took the plunge and started to use them as NPCs. I've grown to like them. Once you flesh them out, it works well...

The major problems with the current champions are :

1) It is hard not to compare them, or even confuse them with the 4th Edition Champions. Don't. Judge Ironclad on his own merits, and he's actually kind of cool for example.

2) With the exception of perhaps Defender, the backgrounds seem rushed. Well, there was only so much room in the book. Also take a peek at Talisman when you're looking over Witchcraft. My suggestion here is to see those only briefly mentioned moments as things to be developed and expanded.

3) With Millenium City not out yet, it does seem there is no logical reason for the Champions to be around your PCs (Who are the stars). This is a shame, as you need to Role Play them to expand them. Find a reason for them to visit the PCs. For that matter, have the PCs help the Champions and let them decide who they do or don't like.

 

 

Some suggested plot seeds for your PC team, related to the Champions:

 

Defender: James Harmon IV is holding a charity ball (Or some other social function, it works best if you have a PC in Charity work or high society as well). That is when ARGENT agents attack, having infiltrated as the serving staff. They know Defender has a knack for showing up when Harmon Industries is in trouble. This 'hold up' is a ruse, to try to get a scan of the Defender armor. ARGENT would then have Defender's tech in their hands. The PCs present just became the wildcards that might prevent this ambush and theft from working.

 

Ironclad: We tend to forget the Dorlavian is AWOL from his people's military forces. Perhaps this part of the story is something he's not shared, even with his teammates. A crack team of Dorlavian commandos arrives, and attempts to 'repo' Ironclad for official court maritial and punishment. Perhaps his fellow Champions are out of town when this occurs. Will any of the PCs help someone who is labelled 'deserter' ? And why now? Maybe this is a ruse to save some higher officer's carreer.

 

Nighthawk: Your team of PCs returns to their own base. They might, or might not notice (depending on senses and perception rolls) that some security measures have been bypassed. There is a scent of blood. They find the wounded (And possibly dying if he doesn't get help) Nighthawk. The Champions have been captured, Homestead is compromised... and he's the only one to have escaped.

 

Sapphire: Corrie is holding another concert, something she doesn't get to do as often now that she's a hero. It's political in nature, kind of a "Para-normals are people too" message to it. Encouraging tolerance and understanding. Naturally, not everyone is so fond of this stuff. One Wyoming Senator is there, scowling. He gets up on stage to protest her open display of mutant powers...things get heated, and a there is a sudden dimming of the lights and a blue flash! And the Sentator lays dead, the glowing Sapphire looking around and swearing "I didn't do it"!

The IHA , working behind the scenes, is quick to pull strings. A Judge in their pocket puts a restraining order on Corrie's team mates NOT to interfere OR participate in the crimework (Clearly, the Champions would be biased). That's where the PCs come in. Hello Mystery.

 

Witchcraft: The normally quiet occultist is acting weird lately. She's acting more confident, and that's good. She's wearing more revealing costumes.. and that's... beweldering, though no guys are complaining. She may even be commiting crimes. The Champions might try to defend their friend from the PCs until they can figure out what's wrong. The PCs maybe trying to capture her (or heck, one might be dating her, how many women does Defender NEED besmitten anyways?). What is going on? Is Witchcraft being corrupted by her sister or parents? or is it Witchcraft at all? Perhaps Talisman has been watching old Bewitched reruns where sisters swap.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Scott Heine

P.S. Personally, I think Deathstroke needed to be "goofied up." I never liked the original characters' names or costumes. And they needed... something... to round them out and make them interesting. Yeah, the revision was written in a hurry, but I thought the concept of a villain team with a publicist was kinda fun...

 

No kiss for you!

 

Deathstroke was a major player in our game for years, so I had an obvious bias. In fact, it was them and the Ultimates that were our usual recurring villains for quite a while... even joining forces when half of their respective members were jailed. They were on quite the tech theft binge... at one point they had 2 Minutemen and one of Mechanon's spare bodies.

 

I thought the Arrowhead change was weird. Of course the name didn't make sense if you changed his powers from armor piercing to explosion

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Acroyear

Let's go back to making Hermit feel inadequate....

 

Well, I guess you have to have your hobbies

[TheEmerged]

I agree with the comment that they're there as an example, to be used if you want to use them. I kept Defender, Sapphire, and Ironclad pretty much as listed. I renamed Nighthawk to NightSeeker, renamed some of his special effects (he doesn't have batons he has sais, he doesn't have pellets he has shuriken). Witchcraft just doesn't do anything for me so I brought Solitaire back (although the actual writeup is somewhere between the traditional Soli & WC's) -- but then, I've always had a soft spot for Soli. I've ended up adding Jaguar back to the team partially to counteract some of my PC's powers.

 

What I want to know is, who's responsible for Solitaire being a barmaid/waitress now? (CU5 pg 148, picture)

[Mutant for Hire]

Personally I would have been happier if they had stripped the names and backgrounds and left them as generic characters with slots to be filled in by the GM. Generic Power Armor, Generic Energy Blaster, etc. Usable as heroes or villains, fill in whatever background and motivation that you want, at least for the base Champions book.

 

Maybe if there's a signature team for the Champions Universe it would be more of a JLA/Avengers level team. Very powerful and fixtuers of the universe.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire

Maybe if there's a signature team for the Champions Universe it would be more of a JLA/Avengers level team. Very powerful and fixtuers of the universe.

The CU has two such teams: The Justice Squadron and the Sentinels. Both have been around for decades and are considered major power-house teams in the US. If anything, these two teams are the iconic teams of the CU.

[Just A Guy Name]

Originally posted by Monolith

Same old arguments over and over.

What is more abusive. 100 pt Magic Pool (costing 150 points and allow you to do anything with a Magic Roll and a Full Phase) or a 60 point Magic Elemental (allowing you to have the base EC and 4 other 60 AP slots)? In the long-run the VPP is far more abusive.

Indeed. Which is a good argument for not allowing VPP either!

[Guest Champsguy]

Personally, I always felt that ECs should be self-explanatory. You should be able to tell someone who had never played Champions before the name of your EC and they should be able to tell you what powers were inside (or at least understand what powers were inside).

 

Instead of saying "I've got Energy Blast, RKA, Flight, blah blah blah in my EC", I'd say, "I've got Fire Powers".

Then they'd say "So you can cover yourself in fire? And fly? And shoot fire at people?"

And I'd say "Yes. I can also control any fires in the area/make a wall of fire/dehydrate people."

 

If they look at you blankly and say "Huh?", then it shouldn't go in there. Sorry, you can't Teleport just because there's a poof of fire when you do it. It's got to make more sense than that.

 

Werewolf powers, fire powers, ice powers, telekinetic powers, vampire powers, and 80's music video powers all give the listener some idea of the stuff you can do and the limitations on it. "Magic powers" doesn't.

 

Of course, we play with EC: Kryptonian Powers, so take this for what it's worth (but it does fit my requirement--most people know what powers you're gonna have).

[lemming]

I liked the first incarnation of the Champions, later named the Guardians. Flare, Gargoyle, Marksman, etc... I never liked the 4th edition characters, but I liked them more than 5th edition overall.

 

On Deathstroke: I liked the original and the update.

[Greg K.]

re: EC for Magic

 

I have no problem with Magic ECs. I view ECs as manipulating a source of energy or matter for various effects.

[Greg K.]

re: orignal Champions

 

Originally posted by lemming

I liked the first incarnation of the Champions, later named the Guardians. Flare, Gargoyle, Marksman, etc... I never liked the 4th edition characters, but I liked them more than 5th edition overall.

 

On Deathstroke: I liked the original and the update.

 

I am still waiting for the Guardians sourcebook by Mr. MacDonald--it has only been about 20 years.

 

BTW, speaking of cool Champions characters, I really liked George MacDonald's version of Quantum from Dragon Magazine #101. Her powers grew stronger or weaker depending on the level of the threat.

[Glen Sprigg]

I've mixed the 4th and 5th edition teams for my campaign. Solitaire is part of another team (using her background in Ultimate Mentalist, she joined up with a team of teenage heroes instead of the Champions).

 

My Champions lineup is:

Defender

Ironclad

Nighthawk

Seeker

Quantum

Jaguar

Kinetik

Witchcraft

Sapphire

Sea Guard (from 4th edition Atlantis)

 

This gives them 10 members, equaling the Protectors in number and relative strength. I left out Obsidian because of the 'twenty-year' clause in his background; his time was up, so he returned home to do princely stuff. Ironclad showed up shortly thereafter to fill the brick role.

 

Far from reducing their power, I've also expanded Eurostar a bit...be afraid.

 

Fiacho

Durak

Bora

Pantera

White Flame

Ultrasonique

The Whip

Mentalla

Doppleganger (EE)

Spector (EE)

Edward Vandaleur (MM)

Anais Vandaleur (MM)

 

Now, if that lineup doesn't frighten the heroes...they haven't fought them yet.

 

Glen

[Acroyear]

Ultimate Deathstroke (I don't think they could decide) was:

 

Binder

Plasmoid

Blackstar

Slick

Deathsinger

Stinger (with additional emphasis on insect agents)

Arrowhead

Death Commando

Dr. Draconis (who did a whole lot of cyborging animals and insects along with occasional power amplifying experiments for the others)

2 Minutemen

Mechanon (a reprogrammed spare body)

 

Frost and Charger seemed to end up in jail most often for some reason, but their membership rotated with the two teams and they were always a major hassle trying to keep them locked up.

[Chaosliege]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire

Personally I would have been happier if they had stripped the names and backgrounds and left them as generic characters with slots to be filled in by the GM. Generic Power Armor, Generic Energy Blaster, etc. Usable as heroes or villains, fill in whatever background and motivation that you want, at least for the base Champions book.

 

Maybe if there's a signature team for the Champions Universe it would be more of a JLA/Avengers level team. Very powerful and fixtuers of the universe.

 

I agree with this completely. The Champions have been around so long, you'd think they'd be more powerful. I could understand back in the BBB they were a starting level Superhero group. But most of us dont look at them that way anymore. Especialy when you consider they are the team representing Hero in the Hero/SAS showdown. I also remember there was a book that came out that had more powerful versions of the champions during the 4th ed run. I didn't have the book(one of the guys in our group did), so I don't remember the name of it. If I remember correctly though, the Champions were significantly more powerful than the ones listed in the BBB. I see them in the 500+ point area.