Changing The Phase Of The Moon

[Vondy]

I've been pondering how to build something. In all truth its the sort of thing I normally hand-wave and declare "plot device" over, but every so often my long dormant, but virulently potent munchkin-master blood gets pumping. I've been pondering how to build something.

 

How to change the phase of the moon from a game mechanics perspective. In my PBEM vampire game one of the clan's has brought in their Justicar, a force of about 40 archons, and some other big guns, to wipe out a group of anathema (three methuselahs and an abomination who has drunk the blood of an antediluvian).

 

The anathema have werewolf allies (anitaverse style shapeshifters) so the vampires intend to strike when the phase of the moon is in their favor (in my game werewolves do not suffer from their silver vulnerability under the full moon - yech!). Unfortuanately for the vamps the anathema know they are coming and have prepared a little suprise for them.

 

They have conducted a ritual that will bring in a heavy snow storm (and hide the moon in the process). Once the vamp attack is fully engaged and the vamps are getting the impression they are routing the opposition the storm will stop, the clouds will part, and the moon will be... full.

 

Ouch.

 

So how would you build a sudden shift in the phase of the moon?

 

I was thinking:

 

X-Dim Movement (One Alternate Dimension/Location)

Megascale (Planet) (+X)

Shift Automatically Occurs At True Midnight (-1)

Shift Automatically Reverses At Dawn (-0)

Requires Five Hour Ritual (-X)

Concentration (Full) (-1)

Gestures (Frenzied Werewolf Ritual Dance) (-1/2)

Incantations (-1/2)

OAF Immobile Bonfire (-1 1/2)

Requires Skill Roll (-1/2)

Cannot Be Performed On Night of New Moon (-0)

[Lord Liaden]

Well, X-D Movement becomes tricky if you want to move large things over large areas. At the very least you'd need Usable on Others as an Attack and Area of Effect. It's also debatable whether affecting the entire Earth would require you to buy enough Increased Mass to accomodate the entire Earth - that wouldn't be cheap.

 

If it was only necessary that the moon be in a different phase for the duration of this combat, I'd go with Change Environment, since that's effectively all that's happening as far as the characters are concerned. You could easily MegaScale it to cover the planet if you wanted to, or even pay the +20 point Adder for permanence if you'd like the lunar calendar to be forever skewed.

 

How's that for munchkin?

[Vondy]

CE might be a more elegant solution. I'll play with it a bit.

[KA.]

I had a brilliant solution to this problem, up until I realized I didn't know what the heck I was talking about.

 

I was going to say:

"Instead of trying to actually change the phase of the moon, why don't you temporarily remove the werewolves' vulnerability to silver, and make the changing of the moon's phase the "special effect", since that is all that it is going to really do anyway."

 

The only problem is, unless I have missed something, short of a mass Transform into "werewolves without the vulnerability to silver", how the heck can you do something like this in Hero?

 

It does happen in comics from time to time, like when Superman wears his "lead suit" around Kryptonite, but what the heck would the mechanics of it be?

 

I mean you could buy the Kryptonite as an NND, with lead as the defense, but that is not really the case, it is a vulnerability.

 

So, how would something like this work?

I know that you wouldn't want to make it too easy, otherwise people would be getting "free" vulnerabilities all the time by having some cheesy "protection", but how would you build a protection for "once in a great while" use, like the lead suit?

 

KA

[trechriron]

I would concur on the CE aspect. Really you should only care what happens at that location. You could even go so far as saying the spell only has that effect only in an area it is cast (even a whole city or county) but does not change the actual moon or moon phases.

 

I think that the nature of that particular spell is more about eliminating vulnerabilites and that should be taken into account when casting the spell. Who cares what happens to the moon. It is more paramount that the Werewolves are no longer vulnerable to silver.

 

This is the funniest part of wrapping the brain around an effects based system. It is not as much about changing the phase of the moon as it is applying that effect for the purpose of eliminating a disadvantage. In this case I would say "who cares about the moon", it is a special effect of the spell.

 

Just my two cents...

[Lord Liaden]

KA. and the Lead Suit

 

If the lead suit only comes up once in a blue moon, I'd probably not bother costing it. If the character can have access to something like this whenever he wants to, but there are reasons not to wear it all the time (maybe it reduces his agility due to bulk, or it's more easily damaged than the character so it's not hard to destroy its protection), a lowering of the frequency of the appropriate Vulnerability or Susceptibility so it's worth fewer points should be enough.

 

I don't think this last tactic is strictly rules-legal anymore, but for some of the older published Hero characters with some Disadvantage that could be compensated for by an artifact, the character would pay for enough Active Points to buy off the Disadvantage, then apply a Focus Limitation to those points.

[Fireg0lem]

Actually, how about "buy off Vulnerable to Silver" for however many points the disadvantage is worth, UoO, and either lots of megascale or lots of others? That is, IIRC, the correct way to buy Superman's suit: Buy off Susceptibility, OIF (maybe some other limitations too).

[Alcamtar]

Well, borrowing an idea from Steve Long's WISH spell in the FH Grimoire...

 

X-Dim movement, self into parallel dimension where the moon is the desired phase.

 

Of course, since it is a parallel dimension, everything is identical (including your friends, the werewolves, the whole planet) except for the phase of the moon.

 

Mike

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Alcamtar

Well, borrowing an idea from Steve Long's WISH spell in the FH Grimoire...

 

X-Dim movement, self into parallel dimension where the moon is the desired phase.

 

Of course, since it is a parallel dimension, everything is identical (including your friends, the werewolves, the whole planet) except for the phase of the moon.

 

Mike

 

Its an interesting idea - to just apply it to the character. It does raise an interesting question: what happens when the character shifts back into the dimension where the moon is not full? Weird paradox questions... must ponder.

[pinecone]

Hmmm....LS:Immune to silver allergy UBO,AE,Mega scale...special effect: Moon apears to have changed phases? This is a little wanky but if Silver allergy is a champain sucept/Vuln then I would have no problem with it...maybe throw in a "Fuel charge" is if it is a limited duration effect.....

[McCoy]

I was thinking mega-scale, mega-mass teleportation useable at range, move the moon opposite the sun. Possibly some side effects of this as tide and weather patterns are disrupted.

 

CE is more eligant.

[Bartman]

Here is a less than completely serious idea. Teleport UAO with Megascale and enough mass doublings to affect the Moon. After that is what a change in phase really is, an change in location in relationship to the Sun and Earth.

[Bartman]

Darn you McCoy. You beat me to it by a minute.

[Vondy]

Alright - I'm going to go with CE, but I don't have my book here at work (the blasphemy! I know...). What's the base cost per inch? Is it 10?

[Vondy]

Uncloaking The Full Moon

 

CE 1" Reveal Full Moon (10AP)

 

Megascale: Hemisphere Facing Moon (+1 1/4)

Shift Occurs At True Midnight (-1)

Shift Requires 5 Hour Ritual (-2)

Majority Of Ritual Must Be Completed Between Dusk and True Midnight (-1/4)

Gestures: Frenzied Werewolf Ritual Dance (-1/2)

Incantations: Howling & Chanting & Stuff (-1/2)

Requires OAF Participants: 1+ Werewolf Pack (-1)

Requires OAF Immobile Bonfire (-1 1/2)

Participants Must Assume Hybrid Form (-1/4)

Requires Skill Roll (-1/2)

Cannot Be Performed On The Night Of The Full Moon (-0)

1 Charge, Lasts From True Midnight To Dawn (6 Natural Hours)(-0)

 

Active Points: 22.5

Real Cost: 3.21

 

Such a big power. Such a tiny cost.

[PhilFleischmann]

I don't like the CE idea. It strikes me as a little too close to the classic munchkin construct: "Only Works in an Intense Magnetic Field, plus a CE: Create an Intense Magnetic Field." I prefer the idea of buying off the Vulnerability to silver.

 

The method that I would use (which I've mentioned many times before in various contexts) is to use an adjustment power. In this case, Aid or Succor. It requires one to accept the idea that buying up a power is similar to buying down a disad. I would could Vulnerabilities and Susceptibilities as "Defense Disads" which would therefore receive half the effect from Adjustment powers.

 

So how big a disad is this vulnerability to silver? Assuming it's 20 points (a nice, round number), you'd need around 12d6 of effect (average roll 42, halved for "defenses"). Of course, you could always buy fewer dice and have the Aid be Cumulative, it would just tak a little longer. Add advantages for slower fade rate, and Area Effect if you like (have all the werewolves gather in a X" radius before applying the power), and you're ready to go. Make it less expensive with your favorite limitations (Increased END, Charges, Side Effects, Expendable Focus, Concentration, Extra Time, Doesn't work while already in the presence of silver; are a few that come to mind). If you happen to roll low, and only get 15 pips of effect (after halving), you reduce the Disad to only 5 points - not perfect, certainly enough to surprise the vampires. "Hey! They're only slightly harmed by silver! What gives! Gasp! Look at the moon! Did we have the date wrong?"

[Agent Escafarc]

I would use Transform(Major,AOE,mega-scale-the whole moon changeing thing is just SF/X as others have pointed out) since thats the way to give someone a Disavantage that should be the way for removing same.

[Vondy]

Of course, you are assuming the vulnerability to silver is constructed as a disadvantage and not a limitation applied to defenses and healing...

[caris]

Originally posted by D-Man

Of course, you are assuming the vulnerability to silver is constructed as a disadvantage and not a limitation applied to defenses and healing...

 

Hmmmm.... Whch makes me now favor, buying off the limitation with Usable by Others.

[Oruncrest]

What about Images - Now on the right Thread

 

Why not use Images if you think CE is too munchkin? For 85 active points, you can make an image of the full moon to superimpose over the real moon. For instance:

 

By the Light of the Silvery Moon: Images covering 2,097,152 hexes, Range= 160,015,625"; Only to generate image of Full Moon, -1, Extra Time (1 Turn, -1¼), Gestures, Incantations, Requires a Magic Skill Roll, -½, 1 continuing Charge that lasts until Sunrise, +¼, 85AP, 20 RP

 

This spell will create the image of a Full Moon some 320,000km away that's slightly bigger than the real Moon. It takes 1 full turn to cast and with a -8 to your Magic Roll you might want to have a few followers to cast this spell with you (and use their rolls as complentary skill rolls)

[Farkling]

It's not so much removing a disad as ramping up their defenses...

50% Damage Reduction, Physical, Usable by X Others, only versuss Silver, 1 Continuing Charge of six hours - SFX :: Change of Moon Phase.

 

You could even link this to the amzingly cheap Change Environment....

[BNakagawa]

The images approach may not fulfill the requirements of the original post.

 

It doesn't matter if they think the moon is full, if the moon appears to all applicable senses, as long as some physiological change isn't triggered.

 

You could create an illusion of a red sun overhead, but if yellow sun rays are reaching superman, he's still super. Similarly, you could create an illusion of a lead box around the kryptonite, but he's still crippled. His perceptions of the sun or the lead box don't affect his body being superhuman or crippled.

 

I think the CE is the most appropriate route.

[austenandrews]

I agree, I'd do it with CE. (Actually I wouldn't even stat it out, but if I had to, I'd use CE.) What keeps that from being munchkinry is the fact that this is ultimately a plot device that will not be used on a regular basis. I sure as heck wouldn't let a player put it on his character sheet.

 

Other methods, like teleporting the Earth or the moon, strike me as needlessly costly and complicated. (Besides, if you teleported the moon, it wouldn't even be there when the clouds parted!) Using a CE to trigger someone's paid-for Disads/Limitations is perfectly legal and ethical, no worse than building a flame-thrower to fight an ice monster (insert debate here). And I'd use a CE to actually change the moon, as opposed to simply altering the defenses of the werewolves, because such a powerful spell can and should have side-effects across the landscape.

 

By the way, D, I think this is a cool idea. It would be an awesome trick for one of those big-time Vegas magicians to use as a centerpiece for a TV special.

 

-AA

[jnormandin]

Don't move the moon!

 

This would cause (at the least) tidal waves, tsunamis, huge electrical storms, imbalance in the earth's rotation, dogs sleeping with cats, and the IRS to declare everyone has overpaid.

 

Mebbie bending light from the sun around the earth (which is what's causing the shadow on the moon in the first place) is the way to go? Or something in space reflecting the light back to the moon?

 

I didn't really have much to add... just wanted an excuse to type the whole "dogs sleeping with cats" thing.

[feywulf]

Re: Changing The Phase Of The Moon

 

Originally posted by D-Man

I've been pondering how to build something. In all truth its the sort of thing I normally hand-wave and declare "plot device" over, but every so often my long dormant, but virulently potent munchkin-master blood gets pumping. I've been pondering how to build something.

 

How to change the phase of the moon from a game mechanics perspective. In my PBEM vampire game one of the clan's has brought in their Justicar, a force of about 40 archons, and some other big guns, to wipe out a group of anathema (three methuselahs and an abomination who has drunk the blood of an antediluvian).

 

The anathema have werewolf allies (anitaverse style shapeshifters) so the vampires intend to strike when the phase of the moon is in their favor (in my game werewolves do not suffer from their silver vulnerability under the full moon - yech!). Unfortuanately for the vamps the anathema know they are coming and have prepared a little suprise for them.

 

They have conducted a ritual that will bring in a heavy snow storm (and hide the moon in the process). Once the vamp attack is fully engaged and the vamps are getting the impression they are routing the opposition the storm will stop, the clouds will part, and the moon will be... full.

 

If the snow storm only hides the moon, but the attacking vampire's have access to a lunar calendar, they can still tell what the phase of the moon is at any time, unless it is actually changed. If the attacking vampire's are stupid enough to attack when the moon is actually full, but can't be seen because of the weather, then they deserve what is coming to them. In this situation, it would just be a CE:heavy snow storm and either a dispel or CE:clear sky.

 

A snow storm doesn't affect the phase of the moon. It would block most of the light being reflected by the full moon(some UV radiation might pass through the clouds). In your game, what aspect of the full moon affects werewolves, the full moon light, or the tidal effects, or both? If it is tidal effects then the snow storm has no effect on the werewolves, and a localized CE:gravity field could create the tidal influence the werewolves need. If it is full moon light, then the vampire's could cast a spell summoning an illusion of the moon in its full phase position that can actually reflect sunlight back down thus being a full moon(but without mass and thus not causing tidal waves)and then dispel or turn off the CE:snow storm, or they could use the full moon light technique that Vegita used the first time he fought Goku which was invented by Goku's dad.