Distorted Space

[Christopher]

Here's a weird idea...

 

Shrinking, Usable As Attack, Fully Invisible Effects (AoE Explosion; normal mass)

 

Shrinking as attack doesn't alter movement, but I think I'm onto something here.

You are onto a somewhat older solution to a vexing problem:

Shrinking was very often used to make "Bag of Holding" types objects. Until "Extradimensional Storage" was added in a APG.

The idea was that everything in the bag was "shrunken" compared to the outside world reducing both weight and size needs.

 

However I doubt it can help us here, as size and weight are not the main issues - limiting chasing and ranged attack abilities is.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Ok, here's a weirder idea:

 

Leave the "distorted" as normal, but alter the perimeter.

 

Those in the perimeter move faster, but images hide the truth of what's really happening. Looking across the zone will use normal distance modifiers because it really is that far.

[Christopher]

Ok, here's a weirder idea:

 

Leave the "distorted" as normal, but alter the perimeter.

 

Those in the perimeter move faster, but images hide the truth of what's really happening. Looking across the zone will use normal distance modifiers because it really is that far.

I doubt that will work as intended.

The goal was to make a area bigger on the inside then the outside, to impair movement and ranged attacks comming through/out of it.

 

Now you would need an area as big as the "shown size". to be affected. And the end result would be...nothing?

So the area distances appear smaler then they are, but really they are still the same? How does that help you in any way?

[Midnightninja]

Steve, has any of this back and forth helped with making this power?

[Steve]

It's helped a bit. I admit it's a weird sort of power idea, but it's the sort of thing you see sometimes in science fiction and superhero stories.

[massey]

XD Movement, to "stretched" world (20 points base?)

Continuous (+1)

Area Effect (+1 or more)

Usable Against Others (+1)

Ranged (+1/2)

Targets return to corresponding location when power ends (-1) (so no trapping them in the other dimension, because you aren't really sending them anywhere)

 

So like 100 active, 50 real.

 

It's kinda powerful, but only in certain circumstances.  You can seal off an area if you're already in a confined space.  Probably the best tactic to use this would be to drop it on a powerful enemy.  Now he's got to go a couple of miles before he can rejoin the fight.  But with the availability of megascale movement, even that isn't too difficult.  This is not too different from a massive Force Wall, or a big Darkness field vs a lot of sense groups, or an Area Effect Entangle, or Missile Deflection at Range with a 20 OCV.  It's the kind of power that can really screw an opponent if they don't have the right counter for it.  But the right counter isn't necessarily that uncommon or expensive.

 

In this case, a few inches of megamovement will let you get out of the area.  Normal combat movement will let you go around it fairly easily.  And if somebody throws this attack at you, you can dive for cover to get out of the way.

[Tasha]

You are onto a somewhat older solution to a vexing problem:

Shrinking was very often used to make "Bag of Holding" types objects. Until "Extradimensional Storage" was added in a APG.

The idea was that everything in the bag was "shrunken" compared to the outside world reducing both weight and size needs.

 

However I doubt it can help us here, as size and weight are not the main issues - limiting chasing and ranged attack abilities is.

Pretty sure that it was always a special effect of TK or extra strength. I can't remember any version of this using Shrinking. Because really what a bag of holding does is give the ability to carry a bunch of extra weight. The rest is just window dressing (AKA Special Effect).

[Grailknight]

XD Movement, to "stretched" world (20 points base?)

Continuous (+1)

Area Effect (+1 or more)

Usable Against Others (+1)

Ranged (+1/2)

Targets return to corresponding location when power ends (-1) (so no trapping them in the other dimension, because you aren't really sending them anywhere)

 

So like 100 active, 50 real.

 

It's kinda powerful, but only in certain circumstances.  You can seal off an area if you're already in a confined space.  Probably the best tactic to use this would be to drop it on a powerful enemy.  Now he's got to go a couple of miles before he can rejoin the fight.  But with the availability of megascale movement, even that isn't too difficult.  This is not too different from a massive Force Wall, or a big Darkness field vs a lot of sense groups, or an Area Effect Entangle, or Missile Deflection at Range with a 20 OCV.  It's the kind of power that can really screw an opponent if they don't have the right counter for it.  But the right counter isn't necessarily that uncommon or expensive.

 

In this case, a few inches of megamovement will let you get out of the area.  Normal combat movement will let you go around it fairly easily.  And if somebody throws this attack at you, you can dive for cover to get out of the way.

 

That seems to cover most of it. If we could come up with a mechanical way to define the size of the XDM, we'd be there.

[Christopher]

It's helped a bit. I admit it's a weird sort of power idea, but it's the sort of thing you see sometimes in science fiction and superhero stories.

That is why I invoked the most direct brother - gravity powers.

A special effect that can do, what no balanced hero power should be able to do. There is just some stuff you can not model without concessions.

 

For example, just asume that Gravitons Gravity Powers in the well known Avengers vs Graviton fight was plain TK:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj07hc_avengers-earth-s-mightiest-heroes-graviton_school

 

It makes total sense that Ironman was trying to use his thursters (movement) to boost his strenght to break the grab (and continous shove). Or maybe using the thursters was the special effect for trying to break the TK Grab with Strenght?

It makes total sense that Hulk was able to overcome the gravity, considering that he had that much strenght (compared to Thor, he does not need a magical hammer to do deal Campaign Limit DC).

[Christopher]

Pretty sure that it was always a special effect of TK or extra strength. I can't remember any version of this using Shrinking. Because really what a bag of holding does is give the ability to carry a bunch of extra weight. The rest is just window dressing (AKA Special Effect).

I have seen the shrinking thrown around a lot on these Forums. And while not making perfect thematic sense, it does make perfect mechanical sense:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92590-help-me-build-certain-objects/?p=2474520

[Tasha]

I have seen the shrinking thrown around a lot on these Forums. And while not making perfect thematic sense, it does make perfect mechanical sense:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92590-help-me-build-certain-objects/?p=2474520

this is the current "Official" Wizard's Bag or Bottomless Sack (FH 330/ FHC 243)

 

Cost   Power

16       Wizard’s Sack: Extra-Dimensional Movement (single pocket dimension), Usable As Attack (+1¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (55

Active Points); OAF (-1), Only On Nonresisting Objects (-¼), Only Works On Items Small Enough To Fit Through Sack’s Mouth (-1), Unified Power (-¼)

Plus

7         Wizard’s Sack: Stretching 10m, Transdimensional (only to reach into the Sack’s pocket dimension; +½) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Unified Power (-¼)

 

Total cost: 23 points.

 

This bag is setup very much like a Handy Haversack, where the owner just needs to concentrate on the item they want from the bag and reach in to have it in their hand. IMHO it's probably a bit elaborate for what it does, but it does technically match what Bags of Holding and other Extra Dimensional space do.

[Armitage]

I completely forgot that there's a Distance Distortion Zone power in Champions Powers, in the Dimensional Manipulation Powers chapter.  It's expensive, and uses a special application of the rules.

 

Change Environment (create distance distortion zone making it seem as if 16m is 160m), -10m of Flight, Leaping, Running, Swimming, Swinging, Teleportation, and Tunneling, additional -6 to Range Modifier, Area Of Effect (16m Radius; +¾), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (225 Active Points); Limited Range (200m; -¼). Total cost: 180 points.

 

"Following Rule #6 on 6E2 266, the GM should apply this combat effect not as a strict reduction in the meters of movement of anyone in the zone, but as a requirement to cross 160m rather than 16m to get across the zone."

 

The referenced Rule #6 is "Don't waste time worrying about "the exact right way" to build an ability...do your best job to figure out how to build what you want...then let it work the way you want it to."

[Steve]

I completely forgot that there's a Distance Distortion Zone power in Champions Powers, in the Dimensional Manipulation Powers chapter. It's expensive, and uses a special application of the rules.

 

Change Environment (create distance distortion zone making it seem as if 16m is 160m), -10m of Flight, Leaping, Running, Swimming, Swinging, Teleportation, and Tunneling, additional -6 to Range Modifier, Area Of Effect (16m Radius; +¾), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (225 Active Points); Limited Range (200m; -¼). Total cost: 180 points.

 

"Following Rule #6 on 6E2 266, the GM should apply this combat effect not as a strict reduction in the meters of movement of anyone in the zone, but as a requirement to cross 160m rather than 16m to get across the zone."

 

The referenced Rule #6 is "Don't waste time worrying about "the exact right way" to build an ability...do your best job to figure out how to build what you want...then let it work the way you want it to."

Well, that's very interesting to learn. Thank you for the power reference. You're right. It is a massive point sink of a power.

 

I wonder how Megascale might work with this. Could you turn 16 meters into 16 kilometers inside the zone instead of actually increasing the perimeter's size?

[dmjalund]

how about Megascale usable against others

[Christopher]

Well, that's very interesting to learn. Thank you for the power reference. You're right. It is a massive point sink of a power.

 

I wonder how Megascale might work with this. Could you turn 16 meters into 16 kilometers inside the zone instead of actually increasing the perimeter's size?

Megascale would affect the realworld size of that zone, not the perceived size.

Beside that, you would be applying a Stop Sign advantage to a yield sign power. So you are a few steps outside the are covered by the rules.

 

Note that there is a special ineraction of CE and Megascaled, per 6E1 342:

"The Encumbrance rules apply to MegaScaled movement. The MegaScaling affects

what 1m equals. Thus, if Encumbrance imposes

a -4m movement penalty, and a character has

MegaFlight 20m where 1m = 10 km, the 10 km

“multiplier” applies to the -4m penalty, so he can

only move 160 km per Phase."

[Ninja-Bear]

How about transformation minor, standard effect, only to create more "space" in an area. Basically you change each hec in an area from 2m to say 8m. So each character doesn't lose movement, it just takes more movement to cross each hex. (Excuse the 5th terminology)

[Amorkca]

How about transformation minor, standard effect, only to create more "space" in an area. Basically you change each hec in an area from 2m to say 8m. So each character doesn't lose movement, it just takes more movement to cross each hex. (Excuse the 5th terminology)

I think a teleport would be able to circumvent this build.

[Steve]

Change Environment is sounding the closest to the power basis I'd need to use, with a type of EDM gate being a second option.

[Ninja-Bear]

I think a teleport would be able to circumvent this build.

Not seeinh how as t-port still measures the same units as running by default.

[Ninja-Bear]

Ok heres one. Distort field: Teleport UAA area accurae and postion shift. Postion is x amount of t-port straight behind original movement but no more than half.