Turn Undead/Exorcism

[GCMorris]

One of our players has a priest character (actually pretty interesting) and he has some questions about how to treat exorcism and turning undead/demons. Thoughts?

[TheQuestionMan]

DIGITAL HERO #30 

[TheQuestionMan]

Cost Sample Divine Powers

12 Banish Evil: Dispel 6d6, Cumulative (+1⁄2); Only versus Summoned Infernals (-1⁄2), Requires a Faith Roll (-1⁄2), Incantations (-1⁄4)

11 Sanctify Area: Dispel 6d6, Cumulative (+1⁄2), Explosion (+1⁄2); OAF (Holy Book, -1), Limited Power Only versus Summoned Infernals (-1⁄2), Requires a Faith Roll (-1⁄2), Incantations (-1⁄4)

6 How’s Your Faith?: +20 PRE; Attack Only (-1), Only versus Summoned Infernals (-1⁄2), Requires a Faith Roll (-1⁄2), Gestures (-1⁄4)

10 Cleansing the Body: Simplified Healing 4d6; Increased Endurance Cost (5x END, -2), Requires a Faith Roll (-1⁄2), Gestures (-1⁄4), Incantations (-1⁄4) 

 

13 Blood Casting: RKA 1d6, Continuous (+1); Requires a Spellcasting Roll (-1⁄2), Range Based on STR (-1⁄4), Side Effects (Takes 1 BODY, Always Occurs, -1⁄4), Gestures (-1⁄4)

13 Dominance: Mind Control 6d6; Costs END to Maintain (-1⁄2), Requires a Spellcasting Roll (-1⁄2), Incantations (-1⁄4)

12 Induce Madness: Drain EGO 3d6; Gestures (Both Hands, -1⁄2), Requires a Spellcasting Roll (-1⁄2), Concentration (1⁄2 DCV, -1⁄4), Incantations (-1⁄4)

10 Souldrinking: Transfer 2d6 (EGO to END); Requires a Spellcasting Roll (-1⁄2), Gestures (Both Hands, -1⁄2), Concentration (0 DCV, -1⁄2), Incantations (-1⁄4)

9 Mage Sight: Detect Magic 11- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Range; Requires a Spellcasting Roll (-1⁄2), Incantations (-1⁄4), Gestures (-1⁄4), Costs Endurance to Activate (-1⁄4) 

[Hyper-Man]

The best way to model a game world with creatures that can be 'Turned' by a 'Cleric' is by way of a campaign house rule.  Just declare that all of the target creatures have an appropriate Disadvantage/Complication when faced with a 'Cleric' attempting to 'Turn' them.

 

HM

[Christopher]

It would either have to be a target side weakness (Complication or Disadvantagte; in particular succeptibility).

Or a quite expensive power.

A presense attack might also work.

 

It is not easy to translate powers from D&D because D&D as a game system has quite a few bugs that hero does not share. And a lot of the constructs are only there because of said bugs or using said bugs.

 

The Pathfinder variant wich does plain damage or healing to the living/undead (rather then mental effects) might work a lot better. Getting around the targets primary defenses (PD/ED) might be an issue. That defenses do not reduce damage is what I consider the main weakness of D&D/Pathfinder. But it could be done.

 

In any case you need to narrow down the effects a lot more then just "Turn Undead", there have been very different abilities of that name.

[L. Marcus]

Turn Undead has been written up as extra PRE, Only Vs. The Undead, PRE Attack Only, OAF or OIF (holy symbol). If the undead take damage, that's a Susceptibility on their part.

[Lucius]

 

Crossposted from the "Create a Character, Walk us Through it" thread.

 

 

Let's see about Turning Undead. That is basically a PRE attack in Hero and with a PRE of 20 Steena can make a 4d6 PRE attack. (Each 5 pts is a d6)

 

There are three problems I see.

 

One is that some undead are mindless automatons who normally don't respond to PRE attacks. I can solve that with a Power Skill; Power Skill is a generic Skill type like “Knowledge Skill” or “Professional Skill” that lets a character use an ability in an unusual way. It takes only 1 pt to convert “Priestcraft” from a Professional to a Power Skill; I now have 14 unspent pts. Because it's a PRE based Skill it also gives me a bonus to PRE attacks of 1d6 when I make the roll, and 2d6 if I make the roll by half, which helps the next problem.

 

PRE attacks are defended against by either PRE or EGO, and both are often high for undead. If Steena makes an attack with Destroy Undead and makes a Priestcraft roll, then she has 4d6 for a PRE of 20, 2 or 3 bonus dice for the violent action/exhibiting power, and +1d6 for making the Priestcraft roll. That's about 24 to 28 pts worth of PRE attack – enough to perhaps make a ghoul pause, but probably not run. Fortunately, we can enhance that with Striking Appearance.

 

Striking Appearance is a Talent that gives a bonus to PRE in appropriate situations. The player defines what about the character is “striking” and that determines when the bonus applies; a princess with Striking Appearance defined as “fairest in the land” could get a bonus to persuade her knights to go on a quest, but it won't help to persuade a dragon not to abduct her or if she has to write a diplomatic letter to a neighboring ruler. If Striking Appearance only effects a limited audience, it only costs 2 pts per level. I take 3 levels of Striking Appearance that only applies to undead, defined as a Holy Aura. That costs 6 pts so now I have 8 left to spend. I decide that all servants of the Death Goddess will have a Reputation: Undead Beware! It only costs 1 pt per level, because undead are a “small to medium group” but the target has to be aware of the reputation to be effected and that happens on a roll of 14 or less according to Rules as Written. I make a note that mindless undead aren't effected and most undead know on an INT roll at +3, because that makes sense to me and is not far from the 14 or less standard roll the rules prescribe. Buying 2 levels of Reputation costs 2 pts, and I have 6 left to spend.

 

The third problem with PRE attacks is that by default they are temporary; even if undead flee they might turn around in a matter of minutes. I fix this with what in Hero is called a “Naked Advantage,” an Advantage that is bought separately from the Power or ability it effects. I buy “Uncontrolled” for Steena's PREsence; Uncontrolled means when a power is activated the character puts a number of END points into a “pool” (essentially transferring their own reserves of energy into the power) and the power keeps going until that pool runs out. I put “Zero END” Advantage on the Uncontrolled (Yes, I can put an Advantage ON an Advantage) to evade that limit but there STILL has to be some way to make such a power stop; I can think of several that are reasonable in this case, such as reaching an unholy temple or desecrated ground, being pursued into a dead end (pardon the expression) or corner, or being bolstered by a necromancer (which could be as simple as the necromancer making their own Power Skill: Necromancy roll.) I also apply the “Undead Only” Limitation, and it looks like this:

 

...And STAY Turned!: (Total: 15 Active Cost, 5 Real Cost) Uncontrolled (+1/2) for up to 20 Active Points of PRE, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Conditional Power Undead only (-2) (Real Cost: 5)

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says if a demonic infestation is giving you gray hairs, treat it with dye-it and exorcise.

[GCMorris]

Perhaps three separate abilities. Repel, Command and Damage would be possible.

[Christopher R Taylor]

"Turning" the undead I have as a presence attack, then I give all undead a vulnerability to presence attacks (and for the ones not normally affected, a physical complication that they are, from holy men).  Exorcism is a long and difficult extradimensional movement bought as an attack.  Bye bye, forever.

[GCMorris]

Trying to help him come up with some good, creative priestly powers. He's of a new priesthood created by the Vatican precisely to combat supernatural evil forces.

[Christopher]

Trying to help him come up with some good, creative priestly powers. He's of a new priesthood created by the Vatican precisely to combat supernatural evil forces.

What is the definition of "Supernatural" and "Evil"? Hero has no D&D allignment/creature type system to draw from.

The only reason D&D Clerics work like that is because D&D setting is designed around them working like that.

 

You can not make a 1 to 1 copy into a totally different setting.

You either need to adapt the setting to be closer to D&D.

Or use generalised abilities that do not rely on the setting.

 

You need to tell us wich of the two it is.

[pinecone]

Hmm....

 

Rituals of Exorcism (XX)

u XD6, NND, Does Body only vs UnNatural" foes (No lim)

u Pres, does damage? as above?

 

or a RKA, Pen vs unNatural (not one of God's creations) might do it ..if it Can go home it will.....

 

Maybe two of those Pres vs intelligent baddies, and Zorch for lesser Unclean targets...

[Mathew Robert Ignash]

For "turning" I'd say just have all undead or demons in your campaign have a vulnerability to presence attacks and phobia to holy items and holy people.

 

Maybe have the priest buy extra PRE that can only be used to frighten the undead/unholy.

 

This might also work for exorcism. The priest simply uses a presence attack to order the demon or spirit away. No powers are needed to do this. The demon is simply intimidated into leaving.

 

Any person with a minor holy item might have a small bonus to his PRE attack on a undead (simply farmed keeping a minor undead at bay with a cross), but a high level priest holding a major holy artifact would have a massive bonus, causing legions of undead to turn and run with a strong prayer and a strong voice.

[GCMorris]

I'm not making a DnD setting. Its modern day only he's a priest who is ordered by the Vatican to combat supernatural/other worldly bad guys like demons and undead. Just looking for some ideas for abilities.

[Lucius]

I'm not making a DnD setting. Its modern day only he's a priest who is ordered by the Vatican to combat supernatural/other worldly bad guys like demons and undead. Just looking for some ideas for abilities.

 

Have you figured out how you're building demons and undead?  Are you planning for demonic possession or obsession to be something that happens in the game to be dealt with, and if so, how does it work?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary suggests that one way to force something to run away is to, literally, force it to Run away - try Running, Usable as Attack.

[Steve]

I could also see this done as a type of Change Environment attack with the special effect of raising the holiness level around the priest. It would feel like a burning scourge to undead or demons within the area affected, since they could be written up with having a Susceptibility to such an environment.

 

Throw in a PRE attack on top and watch them flee from the holy man.

[Wardsman]

I'm 5th edition guy so someone else would need to translate to 6th.

 

5Th suggest all undead built with a limitation affected by necromance that gives  undead an effective ego or presence.

Turn undead in 5th is a talent that behaves as rules as written except at + 40 level where it destroys them.

 

I add vulnerabilities and susceptibilities to presence attacks from opposing forces with the right talent or perk.

Works well in other issues like law vs chaos or fire vs water pantheons.

You could also let priests and paladins by linked attacks to presence.

 

Another option is tread the undead as summoned and use a special suppress and dispel rules.

Treat as a summoned horde and allow suppress to remove some based on roll. 

If suppress hits dispel levels they are wiped out.

[Christopher]

I could also see this done as a type of Change Environment attack with the special effect of raising the holiness level around the priest. It would feel like a burning scourge to undead or demons within the area affected, since they could be written up with having a Susceptibility to such an environment.

 

Throw in a PRE attack on top and watch them flee from the holy man.

Actually I missread it/developed a Idea going one step further:

Every Character has a Temperature level in wich he can operate without penalties.

As a Campaign Rule, you could add a new "Holyness/Unholyness" axis to the Environment. Every character would have levels in wich he can operate without penalties. Levels that you could then affect with CE, the same way you would with Temeprature, Wind or Radiation Level.

 

 

I'm not making a DnD setting. Its modern day only he's a priest who is ordered by the Vatican to combat supernatural/other worldly bad guys like demons and undead. Just looking for some ideas for abilities.

To make a paralell:

There are at least 3 ways to build a "Selfguided Missile" (Simple Blast/RKA, Automaton, APG 2 Selfacting Focus).

You are asking us how to build Chaff, without first saying us wich of those totally different appraoches you are using.

 

Every last of the Clerics abilities - down to the class skills - only make sense within a D&D-like setting.

 

We need definitions of the valid targets for his powers, before we can give you any advise on how to build them:

Do undead count? Are there even undead in your world or is it a virus or alien technology?

Does any being from another Dimension count? What about time or dimenension travelers of human origin? What about aliens?

Does it work agaisnt "Evil"? If so, what makes a creature "Evil" for the purpose of this power? The presence/lack of wich complications defines "Evil"?

Does his healing deal damage to undead? Do his damaging abilities heal undead.

[GCMorris]

Aside from battling undead and infernal critters he's not going to be a D&D cleric. He's a modern day priest ordered by the Vatican to battle evil forces. Some heroes fight street thugs, some fight mutants and some fight aliens. He happens to specialize in fighting undead and demons/ Devils and the like. He doesn't heal wounds (aside from the Paramedic skill). He has good hand to hand skills and some abilities that work against any foe but I was really just asking how to make those abilities work in Hero and perhaps more abilities that would fit the character.