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[Parabola]

True. But remember, he is not an alternate Doctor Destroyer. He is an evil, extra dimensional, and magical version of Defender pretending to be Doctor Destroyer.

 

That does seem to be a misconception that people commonly have.  I was talking to a guy I game with and he was telling me how DD started as kind of a Doom equivalent but has become more a Darkseid/ Thanos character.  Clearly, he was working from the idea that Shadow Destroyer is another advancement of Dr. Destroyer which I realized was wrong as soon as I started reading the SD section.

 

Right now, I'm involved in a Mega Traveler game and a Pathfinder game but I'm hoping in the future that someone is going to be willing to run Champions. 

[Parabola]

While true, that's not really germaine to Parabola's request. Shadow Destroyer is an armor-wearing master of both science and sorcery, with powers derived from both sources, just like Dr. Doom. If you wanted to adapt an existing Champions character sheet for Dr. Doom, SD's is probably the closest fit.

 

Yes I thought about that.  I haven't looked over the SD character sheet in minute detail yet but I noted the "science and sorcery" angle where he's a powered armor wearing sorcerer and the armor is a product of both science and the arcane.  There's even one Doom series where he sold his soul for greater sorcery powers which matches up nicely with Shadow Destroyer. 

 

I suspect SD probably outclasses Doom in some ways but Doom has the timestop, the time travel, the power-jacking, etc. But SD may well be the closest equivalent to Doom in Champions. 

[assault]

Right now, I'm involved in a Mega Traveler game and a Pathfinder game but I'm hoping in the future that someone is going to be willing to run Champions. 

 

"Someone". Heh.

 

Unless it's you, it's going to be no one. It never is, in my experience.

 

Thumbs up for Mega Traveller!

[Parabola]

"Someone". Heh.

 

Unless it's you, it's going to be no one. It never is, in my experience.

 

Thumbs up for Mega Traveller!

 

Well, someone mentioned the possibility of running it in the future. 

[Lord Liaden]

That does seem to be a misconception that people commonly have.  I was talking to a guy I game with and he was telling me how DD started as kind of a Doom equivalent but has become more a Darkseid/ Thanos character.  Clearly, he was working from the idea that Shadow Destroyer is another advancement of Dr. Destroyer which I realized was wrong as soon as I started reading the SD section.

 

In a way, Dr. Destroyer has indeed become like a Darkseid/Thanos character. Dr. Doom is an unsurpassed genius, but without stealing power from someone else he's never been the mightiest being on Earth. Dr. Destroyer's current armor makes him at least the equal of any superhuman on Champions Earth. And he has legions of devoted followers and a cadre of superpowered lieutenants, like Darkseid.

 

There is one significant qualitative difference between DD and Shadow Destroyer: for all his power, SD is a servant. He's devoted to his patrons, the Presences Beyond, and does what he thinks will please them so they'll grant him more power and knowledge. Dr. Destroyer, like Dr. Doom, serves no one, because he believes no one and nothing is greater than himself. Destroyer's power is the product of his own genius, not bestowed by anyone else.

[assault]

Well, someone mentioned the possibility of running it in the future. 

 

Cool. I'm just cynical.

[Lord Liaden]

I also found it interesting/ amusing that James Harmon IV, who is a basic starting level character in the main Champions world, is the ultimate evil in the dark world and nobody in the Champions world so far knows he is the doppelganger of Defender.

 

To be fair, in Champions Universe continuity Defender has been active for a number of years, and later updated write-ups for him have reflected the considerable upgrades he's made to his armor. The Champions are said to have grown much more prominent with their many successes, and now enjoy public recognition comparable to the much-longer-established Justice Squadron and Sentinels. And as I mentioned in my previous post, Shadow Destroyer owes much of his power to a source Defender has no access to (not that he'd want it).

 

But really, you can blame Cryptic Studios for wanting this particular dynamic when they developed Champions Online. SD was their idea.

[Amorkca]

Is there a write up of Shadow Destroyer in the Villains books?

[drunkonduty]

I think there is one in Book of the Destroyer...

[Lord Liaden]

Shadow Destroyer gets a full 6E write-up in Champions Villains Vol.1: Master Villains; and a 5E write-up in Book Of The Destroyer.

[Amorkca]

I Have that book! (The 6e one!!) Thanks LL

[Parabola]

Valuable lesson yesterday, or reminder, of why players don't get allotted the kinds of points we see from NPC arch-villains.  We were talking about a 700 point Champions game that is running (500 base + 200 disadvantages).  I knew there's a 693 points version of Dr. Destroyer in BotD so I thought I would consider just changing the disadvantages and a few skills and abilities to make it fit my concept.  Then the guy started describing his character and another character in the game and I realized that, on the same points, any one of these PCs would absolutely curbstomp Destroyer because almost every single point is dedicated to being as invincible as possible. 

 

In my ideal world, if you have 250 points, you probably optimize.  On 700, you start thinking much more about the nuances of the character, how long he's lived, how many skills he's accumulated and you divide the points with consideration for much more role-playing. 

 

Of course, far too often, that's NOT what happens.  You just get people who have an extra 450 points for getting more powerful.

 

So I realized that the 700 points version of DD would be the weakest character on the team when the players have 700 points too.

[bigdamnhero]

Yeah, an awful lot of Destroyer's points are tied up in Followers, Vehicle/Bases, Background Skill, etc.

[segerge]

Valuable lesson yesterday, or reminder, of why players don't get allotted the kinds of points we see from NPC arch-villains.  We were talking about a 700 point Champions game that is running (500 base + 200 disadvantages).  I knew there's a 693 points version of Dr. Destroyer in BotD so I thought I would consider just changing the disadvantages and a few skills and abilities to make it fit my concept.  Then the guy started describing his character and another character in the game and I realized that, on the same points, any one of these PCs would absolutely curbstomp Destroyer because almost every single point is dedicated to being as invincible as possible.

 

In my experience, the 700-point optimized invincible combat monster usually comes at the cost of buying those points through an almost-crippling series of limitations.  If that GM is not derelict in his duties, your Destroyer rebuild should still be combat-effective in situations which would leave those other characters ineffective.

 

By startling coincidence, I am GM'ing a scenario for a gamer's reunion in late July or so with a 500 base and 200 in disadvantages.  On the off-chance you're one of the players for that, I'll just say that based on the characters I have already seen and approved they're in for an... interesting run.

[tiger]

I brought back Prof. Meurte, Now simply Meurte in Villainy Codex II. He's over 300 points however

[steriaca]

I brought back Prof. Meurte, Now simply Meurte in Villainy Codex II. He's over 300 points however

So, does the OP need a more powerful Meurte, or a less powerful Meurte?

[Franklin W. Cain]

I haven't posted here for a looooong time but this is a fantastic writeup.  I don't have 6th edition so I don't even know what this new stat, MD, even is.

 

 

Thank you.  ;-)  

 

In my campaigns, Mental Defense ("MD") is a Figured Characteristic. 

 

Franklin