GCMorris Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 I'm still trying to figure out how to build a guy with two heads using 4e rules. I'm a dummy and can't figger it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothere Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Well I don't have4th so first question, does it have extra limbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolishvictor Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Imagine for a moment that you are not designing a character and just list what the benefits and drawbacks are. Forget about character points and just make the list. Once you have have the list you can produce the character. 1. Does the second head think independently of the first? Do they argue? 2. Do the different heads take action independently? If the heads are called A and B, can A do mental attack while B is using the rest of the body normally? 3. If this character were attacked by a mental blast or some other mental power how would it be addressed? Would both heads be attacked by the one attack? Would only one head be attacked? 4. How does having two heads affect the game? Once you try to answer these questions the rest becomes much easier. The Hero system is really flexible but to take advantage of unusual character concepts you have to put some work into it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 The base power is simply Extra Limbs. Everything else is "extra", since there is the Hero System, and there are a million ways to do things in it and nothing is wrong. The special effect of this guy's powers are "extra head". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Powers appropriate to someone with an extra head. Mental Defenses. Various mental powers. Increased Arc Of Perception (240-degree Perception with Sight Denver Group) Life Support: Needs No Sleep (one head sleeps while the other is awake). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Possible enhanced hearing as well. And possible INT boost to INT skills or INT based powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 They could argue if you like, get along great even one be evil and one be good...all up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arc Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Zaphod Beeblebrox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 Try Duplication with a Limitation that they can't recombine and neither can they separate. Lucius Alexander Or we can ask the palindromedary.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesedrith Posted April 8, 2017 Report Share Posted April 8, 2017 4th and 5th being my editions, I sort of have to chime in, and on that, I have to agree that if they are separate personalities and the like, and especially if they have their own abilities and powers, then that's the Duplication with appropriate limitations that Lucius and the palindromedary point out. If they can both use the body independently, but are restricted to the same power set and such, then that starts becoming just Extra Limbs, and that then becomes the special effect for some things like Enhanced Senses, extra Speed (each head orchestrating their own sets of attacks), and so forth. Then we can get down to the point where it's just an odd, natural thing of the species (like D&D Ents), and then it's just 5pts. for the Extra Limb, and maybe the justification for some Disadvantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Why do we even need Extra Limbs? What do we do with our heads that an extra one would help us with? It's not like I can Grab someone with my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Why do we even need Extra Limbs? What do we do with our heads that an extra one would help us with? It's not like I can Grab someone with my ears. You CAN grab someone with your mouth. Also bite. And strike (headbutt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 How many of us would allow a character to execute a Grab using his mouth? Would we allow a Strike when the character's arms and legs are pinned, and he is immobilized to the point he could not use his head to strike, but because he has a second head, that head is free enough to Strike? I suspect not. In fact, being able to effectively Grab with your mouth might be a reason to buy Extra Limbs. I've used it for characters like the Beast, whose feet are usable as hands, or Stretching characters who can wrap their neck or torso around a target to Grab, without actually having more than the traditional two arms and two legs. The question is "what can this character do above and beyond what one without extra limbs can do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 Grab, between two heads. But you do make a point Huge. It is not what you have, but how you use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 How many of us would allow a character to execute a Grab using his mouth? Would we allow a Strike when the character's arms and legs are pinned, and he is immobilized to the point he could not use his head to strike, but because he has a second head, that head is free enough to Strike? I suspect not. In fact, being able to effectively Grab with your mouth might be a reason to buy Extra Limbs. I've used it for characters like the Beast, whose feet are usable as hands, or Stretching characters who can wrap their neck or torso around a target to Grab, without actually having more than the traditional two arms and two legs. The question is "what can this character do above and beyond what one without extra limbs can do?" Hugh I disagree with your first paragraph minorly and I ageee with your second paragraph. It is this, I would allow a grab with mouth or strike with head depending on special effects of head/entangle however it would not be as effective as if I bought extra limbs to cover it. It is just about anything else in Hero, you can try anything but if you want to be effective at it you pay the points for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think the most significant point is what the player wants the character to be able to do with those two heads. "Grab between two heads"? Why not "Grab between my chin and chest"? But if he has two heads on lengthy or extendable necks, sure. If he has two heads sitting side by side on a torso? I don't see the classic Ettin "grabbing with two heads". He does have many of the abilities noted above, though - he can see in an increased arc of perception, is never asleep because the heads take turns sleeping, etc. None of those abilities require Extra Limbs, nor will having "Extra Limbs - Another Head" provide any of those abilities. First, define what you want the character to be capable of in prose, not in game mechanics. Then select the mechanics. Just dumping "extra limbs" is no better than dumping "Distinctive Features - Two Heads" or "draw a second head on the character sheet picture". So, GCMorris, what aspect of having two heads are you finding challenging to build in 4e? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think it is more of a "this game don't tell me what I can do with a second head, and I am not that imaginative enough to pick all the powers to simulate a second head" problem. It happens a lot to newcomers who never played in a toolkit or universal point build game before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I'm not sure why you would leap to the conclusion that a poster asking a 4e question, having 259 posts in his history, is a newcomer. He's only been a member on site since June/16, but 4e was long gone by then! I'd rather let him tell me where he's encountering a challenge than guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 I think it is more of a "this game don't tell me what I can do with a second head, and I am not that imaginative enough to pick all the powers to simulate a second head" problem. It happens a lot to newcomers who never played in a toolkit or universal point build game before. I'm guilty of this! Hopefuly I'm fetting better at this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 True. I was guessing. But couldn't the answer to many a question about Hero "What do you want it to do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted April 9, 2017 Report Share Posted April 9, 2017 A typical "how to do something" post. First five pages: the various ways something can be done in the Hero System. The next 40 pages: arguments about which of the ways are correct. The last five pages: realizing that the discustion has gotten out of hand. Perhaps some topic drift. The OP thanked everyone about 20 pages past and made a decision, but we totally forgotten about him while making an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 A typical "how to do something" post. First five pages: the various ways something can be done in the Hero System. The next 40 pages: arguments about which of the ways are correct. The last five pages: realizing that the discustion has gotten out of hand. Perhaps some topic drift. The OP thanked everyone about 20 pages past and made a decision, but we totally forgotten about him while making an argument. You post that like its a bad thing! : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 A typical "how to do something" post. First five pages: the various ways something can be done in the Hero System. The next 40 pages: arguments about which of the ways are correct. The last five pages: realizing that the discustion has gotten out of hand. Perhaps some topic drift. The OP thanked everyone about 20 pages past and made a decision, but we totally forgotten about him while making an argument. (bolding added) Perhaps?! Perhaps?! You're lucky if you don't get topic drift in the first five pages. (He says on Page 2, causing topic drift) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Bolo you mean your lucky if you don't have topic drift in the first five post! : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 I note we are on page 2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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