FenrisUlf Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Well, having posted what turned out to be a surprisingly robust thread on the /best/ heroic fantasy, now I'm curious as to what you folks think of as the /worst/ heroic fantasy ever. Though that might be a very long list, I will narrow it down by asking that you not post the 'cheese' -- the stuff that is bad but in a good way (i.e., no MST3K material). I'm asking for the just plain *bad* -- the books that you either tossed in the direction of the nearest trashcan or that made you want to track the author down to demand he return the hours you put into reading the book or seeing the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joen00b Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I offer you the Ator movies which are so bad you will be stabbing yourself in the eyes to take away the horror. These are from the 80's at some point and me and some friends watched them. Now, usually, to the 12 year old mind, these movies are cool, hell, I watched and enjoyed every ninja movie from the 80's, and that's saying something! But, these Ator movies were extremely BAD! Ator, some barbarian/beastmaster/blademaster/scientist type guy does all sorts of fantastical things like builds working Hang Gliders and, no BS, Atomic Bombs (as memory serves). Have all the fun you want with them, no one else will touch these films. Oh yeah, Conan the Destroyer was a waste of Celluloid too, and Red Sonja wasn't all that great either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 The Dungeonmaster. Starring Richard Moll (aka Bull from "Night Court") as a dark lord. It was bad and not in a "so bad it's funny" way. The Shanarra books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Wheel of Time by Jordan. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by archer The Dungeonmaster. Starring Richard Moll (aka Bull from "Night Court") as a dark lord. It was bad and not in a "so bad it's funny" way. The Shanarra books. Ugh ... that was a bad movie ... Hawk the Slayer is in there too ... But Shanarra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I practically launched Sword of Shanarra across the room when I first read it. That was a sack of tripe. Tolkien pastiche, and not even Tolkien pastiche done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I did launch the last Amber book across the room after finishing it. Also, the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series from Tad Williams. The sad thing is that the first two books and most of the third book are excellent, way above average writing for the genre. Then, the last 50 or so pages manage to, in an Alien-3-esque fashion, ruin the entirety of the series with their awfulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Sketchpad Ugh ... that was a bad movie ... Hawk the Slayer is in there too ... I always liked Hawk the Slayer for the cheese factor. The autofire elf, the rubber ball and hoola-hoop magical effects, the completely non-sensical plot, Jack Valence chewing up the scenery in every scene. Sure it was a bad movie, but it had great camp value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by archer The Shanarra books. Agreed. I don't understand how that guy kept getting them published. He must have incriminating pictures of the publisher. Also any Forgotten Realms book by Ed Greenwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishspy Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Re: Worst. Swords and Sorcery. Ever. Originally posted by FenrisUlf Well, having posted what turned out to be a surprisingly robust thread on the /best/ heroic fantasy, now I'm curious as to what you folks think of as the /worst/ heroic fantasy ever. The worst I've read would either be Harry Turtledove's very early novels under the name "Eric Iverson" (as I recall), or Gary Gygax's "Gord the Rogue" series. Both were awful beyond words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man Agreed. I don't understand how that guy kept getting them published. He must have incriminating pictures of the publisher. One reason. As bad as the original was it still sold well. Apparently LotR for dummies was a successful book idea. And he has gotten significantly better at writing. Even the second book was a significant step up from the first. Although he still isn't IMO a particularly good writer, he is readable. I'd be willing to sit down and re-read any of his Shannara (excepting the first one) or Magic Kingdom books. I don't actually plan on doing that because life is short and there are authors I would much rather read or re-read. The real question is how Jordon and Goodkind are still selling books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterdeath Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man Also any Forgotten Realms book by Ed Greenwood. the vast majority of Forgotten Realms novels, period. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muldegian Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 I am sure someone here has the link to THE WORST FANTASY EVER!! It is a net posted story....If you can get past a paragraph or two then you have really accomplished something and given yourself a few Psych Lims to boot. Add another to the Shannara List. The movies except Conan all stink. I am kiinda partial to the Conan one though. He-Man needs to be mentioned. Robin Hobbs assassian books really bite IMO but I will likely be alone in that view. A=hhhh, so much garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briguy123 Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 There were a multitude of direct to video Sword and Sorcery movies made in the 80's and they were all bad. Some of the worst were: Gor Deathstalker I-IV (fantasy soft-core porn) The Barbarian Brothers Beastmaster II Then there were those that were released in theatres. These were equally as bad. Krull Clash of the Titans Dungeonmaster Sword of the Valiant Unfortunately, I have a sick fascination with bad movies and I have seen every one of those that I listed as well as Hawk the Slayer and all the Ator movies. I have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Worst Books: The Thomas Covenant series. The protagonist is a self-involved, whiney rapist. And it goes down from there (I'm told by people who know the author that there are "reasons" why he wrote what he did, but I really don't find a trip through such a diseased mind either interesting or enjoyable.) Worst Movie: TOR, Hunter from the Future. Definately. With Sheenah of the Jungle and Krull coming in not far after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Any gaming tie-in fiction gets a Special Mention O' Badness. I've never read a piece of gaming tie-in fiction that was worth the time I spent on it, much less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Your right. I'm sorry. While not as outright offensive in terms of content, in terms fof writing the D&D novels are definitely worse then TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Originally posted by joen00b I offer you the Ator movies which are so bad you will be stabbing yourself in the eyes to take away the horror. These are from the 80's at some point and me and some friends watched them. Now, usually, to the 12 year old mind, these movies are cool, hell, I watched and enjoyed every ninja movie from the 80's, and that's saying something! But, these Ator movies were extremely BAD! Ator, some barbarian/beastmaster/blademaster/scientist type guy does all sorts of fantastical things like builds working Hang Gliders and, no BS, Atomic Bombs (as memory serves). Have all the fun you want with them, no one else will touch these films. Ehi! Wow! Fond memories of my childhood...The Ator series! They are two of the worst Italian-made sword'n'sorcery flicks. Actually, the first one is not that bad, despite being somewhat heavy on the "messiah" plot (a prophecy foretells Ator's birth, so the bad king orders "Kill all the babies"! Unoriginal, to say the least). The second (the one with the atomic bomb) is much worse. Anyway, I didn't expect them to get as far as America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grond Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Why hasn't anyone mentioned the AD&D movie yet? Jeremy Irons acts as if he is wondering all the time what is he doing there in that terrible movie (like Sean Connery in Highlander II). And for what reason does his bodyguard wear a blue lipstick? Now do we want to speak about the - ugh - elf? Don't misunderstand me, but he isn't exactly almond eyed, fair skinned or a delicate and magic character... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Well I didn't mention it because I wasn't stupid enough to go see it If I had yes it would likely top my list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starblaze Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I have to admit that I actually like Goodkind and Brooks. I particularly liked his Magic Kingdom for Sale and the three modern fantasy novels, Running with the Demon, Knight of the Word and Angel Fire East, although I could have gone without the ending in the last one. And yes I do like the Sword of Truth series. Now really bad fantasy would probably any Beastmaster movie after the first. The first wasn't all that bad but everything else went downhill after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinrin Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Another bad Sword-n-Sorcery movie is Sword and the Sorceror. I remember this movie fondly in my youth back in the 80's and thought it was good at the time. In a fit of nostalgia I bought the movie on DVD and haven't forgiven myself since.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Originally posted by starblaze I have to admit that I actually like Goodkind and Brooks. I particularly liked his Magic Kingdom for Sale . Magic Kingdom For Sale (Sold) was fun. It had some nice ideas in it though the ending was terribly predictable from about 2/3 of the way into the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I believe it was Yor, The Hunter From The Future. Topped my list of worst movies for a long time. I got a free pass to see Kull the Conquerer and got ripped off. Of course D&D was even worse. As for the written word, I give you the legendary Eye of Argon: http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/sf/eyeargon.htm There's also the Ultima: Technocrat War books by some guy in Austin. Talk about stinkeroos. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Originally posted by austenandrews I got a free pass to see Kull the Conquerer and got ripped off. I kind of enjoyed it. Not great, but I wasn't expecting it to be. Very little western fantasy cinema is any good. (Unlike its Hong Kong and Japanese counterparts.) My ultimate stinkers would have to be: (a) Thomas Covenant. Just... why bother... ( Anything by John Norman. OK, maybe one piece of misogynistic bondage porn would have been OK, but he's written about 40!!! And he drones on and on and on and on and on.... Of course, I don't read much modern Fantasy writing. There's something about generic covers and massive page bloat that says "don't bother". Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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