Lord Liaden

Re: "Finally a game where you can kill the fodder, just like in the movies." Well, as I mentioned in a previous post to this thread, IMO "casual mook killing" isn't necessary in most cases. As long as said mooks are incapacitated and no longer a threat for the duration of the fight - including being knocked unconscious - the effect on the outcome of an encounter is the same for practical purposes. However, as long as the subject has come up, I might as well reiterate the House Rule I devised for when my groups agree that greater lethality is appropriate to the genre. I think it's germaine to this discussion because I extrapolated it from existing HERO mechanics: If a character takes BODY Damage after Defenses equal to his starting BODY, including modifiers for Hit Location, from a single attack (including Coordinated attacks), then that character has to make a CON Characteristic Roll or die immediately from shock - a not-unrealistic outcome IMHO. In the case of mooks or unimportant bystanders that we want slaughtered I usually just rule that those characters automatically fail their CON Roll. As with Death in HERO, the starting BODY is a determining factor; like Stunning, matching or exceeding a stat total on the damage dice has an additional result; and a Characteristic Roll to avoid negative consequences is an established part of the system. Fudging the CON roll is the only GM "handwaving" needed to turn this into a full mook rule.

Re: The cost of TK FWIW I've been running TK as if it were Indirect at the +1/2 level, i.e. it can reach over and around and behind objects, but not through them. This makes it resemble the "partially Indirect" effects of Stretching or enhanced reach from Growth, which pleases me on an esthetic level. TK becomes Fully Indirect for +1/4, while Fully Direct is a -1/2 Lim. I do want to emphasize that this is primarily for the "feel" of the Power, not necessarily because I think it's more balanced this way.

Re: The cost of TK Do you think that it's fair to compare Telekinesis to Ranged Strength with all the Advantages of TK, and No Figured Characteristics? Ranged STR is obviously much cheaper, as shown in the analysis above, but it's also illegal; is that appropriate? One thought that did strike me is that in campaigns with Normal Characteristic Maxima, large amounts of Strength Modified as above would be considerably more expensive.

Re: The cost of TK Well, even though the description of TK in the rulebook does imply what you're saying, when you look at what it can actually do it certainly sounds like Fully Indirect: "In other words, while it always originates with the character, it can "touch" or pick up objects or characters from any direction (not just on the side facing the Telekinetic character), can move objects in any direction, and so forth. It can work through a window or a Force Wall without having to break the intervening obstacle, at no reduction in STR." (5E p. 147) From that breakdown it's hard to see what part of Indirect it doesn't cover. In fact when I posed that question to Steve Long a while back, he couldn't come up with one either: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4843

Re: Magnetism: Abuse And Super Metals Regarding CU supermetals and references to them in Champions Universe, Kendrium is explicitly described as "high-grade titanium steel with certain chemicals and other substances" (CU p. 57), so that certainly qualifies as "ferrous." Questionite's description makes it sound like a unique naturally-occurring metal, probably its own element, so I would say that magnetism need not affect it. Neutronium may or may not be "dead star material," but either way because of its high density it's probably not ferrous. Destreum is "a super-strong alloy that he [Dr. Destroyer] invented" (Conquerors, Killers And Crooks p. 8), but what it's an alloy of isn't specified, so that would be a judgement call. OTOH when Destreum was first mentioned, in the Fourth Edition adventure Day of the Destroyer, it was specifically referred to as "destreum steel."

Re: "Finally a game where you can kill the fodder, just like in the movies." That seems fair. Mind you, there are also a couple of "mook rules" in the "Nine Ways To Speed Up Combat" sidebar in the core rulebook.

Re: "Finally a game where you can kill the fodder, just like in the movies." I can see your point. OTOH I did notice what happened to Aragorn and the rest of the Fellowship when those 20 BODY trolls showed up.

Re: The cost of TK When you examine the rules for TK it is to all intents and purposes Fully Indirect (attack from any angle and through intervening barriers), so the Strength construct you describe would really need Indirect at +3/4 to get the same benefits. Let's try to break this down mathematically: STR 40 (40 BP), Ranged (+1/2), Indirect (+3/4) = 90 AP, 9 END; No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) = 60 RP. Let's remove those first 10 pts. of Strength that you get for free, as you suggested, and make it 50 RP. Now, STR 40 TK (60 BP), Fine Manipulation to match a person's normal STR (+1/4) = 75 AP and RP, END 7. STR comes out significantly cheaper, but more costly in END. If you were to buy both Power constructs to 0 END, TK would cost 105 points. STR would come to 110 AP, 73 RP - 10 free STR = 63 points. Of course Ranged STR is technically illegal, but let's ignore that for now. OTOH, IMO we also have to compare TK to EB to get a rounded perspective. Consider an 8d6 EB (40 BP) vs. STR 40 TK (60 BP), doing equal damage. You'd have to buy Indirect at +3/4 on EB to give it the same capacity as TK (70 AP). Just to balance out the points, let's buy them both to 0 END, bringing them both to 90 AP. So, we have two Power constructs of the same Active Points and END cost, doing the same base damage; except that the TK is a Constant Power, and can Strike, Grab and crush or throw an opponent, lift and manipulate objects at range, etc. Is there a point to all this? Well, I guess the point is that the various Powers, Characteristics, Damages etc. in HERO don't square with each other perfectly; you don't have to Modify them too far before one becomes superior to another in particular circumstances. Does this mean that TK is too expensive when compared to Ranged STR? Or too cheap when compared to EB, which TK quickly outstrips when Modified? Maybe. Maybe there are fundamental structural issues to the system that should be addressed. Or maybe they're close enough in a lot of situations that it's not worth the effort to make them square more precisely. To tell you the truth, at this point I'm not really sure.

Re: "Finally a game where you can kill the fodder, just like in the movies." Hmm... that last statement may be valid, but I did see one of my fighter-type PCs kill or fatally wound five orc-analogies with one Sweep of his sword.

Re: "Finally a game where you can kill the fodder, just like in the movies." GestaltBennie and Susano have given examples of optional "mook rules" in published HERO books. Others are mentioned in "Nine Ways To Speed Up Combat" in the core rulebook. To my mind, once an optional rule appears in an official published book, it becomes an official part of the system and not a house rule. Therefore, I must conclude that HERO System can "mow down mooks" as Chris Goodwin puts it, without house rules. However, I do have to qualify that. The various "mook rules" in HERO work best at taking mooks out of a fight without necessarily killing them outright, i.e. they're unconscious, maybe bleeding to death. However, in scenarios where the heroes wade through hordes of faceless opponents, the distinction isn't practically important. What really matters is that the foes go down with little effort on the part of the heroes, and if they get back up at all it's not until after the scenario is finished. Dead, or incapacitated, is more a matter of flavor than a mechanical priority. Still, if that's the flavor you want, then either you have to use all the "lethality" optional rules to their fullest, adjust the power level of the opposition accordingly, or indeed institute house rules. I admit to sometimes using one or two of those last myself, although I consider them extrapolations from the existing system.

Re: Enemies of San Angelo Well, I've used the villain team Anarchy and the solo villains Senora del Oro and Mastermind from Enemies of San Angelo in past campaigns. Anarchy is a colorful, distinctive team with a strongly focussed motivation, rather like Eurostar with a broader agenda. Senora del Oro is probably my favorite character from the collection, with a wonderful name, rich history, unique "gimmick" and a nice character illustration. Mastermind became a name that made other superheroes in my campaign very uneasy; the only thing more disturbing than a fallen hero is one with the power to make you the same way. As I've posted to the boards before, I used Photon and a few other elements from SA, as well as bits from the 4E CU, in a major plotline for a past campaign. To avoid redundancy I'll just link to that post for anyone who's curious: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=502065 (BTW Dominique, I did leave a few suggestions on the GRG message boards. Thanks for the prompting.)

Re: Who would you recreate? The Swordsman is a humanoid alien from a heavy-gravity world who came to Earth through a freak accident. Already a highly trained armed and unarmed combatant, on our world he possesses fantastic strength, agility and athletic prowess. His world's technology is in some ways superior to our own, manifested in the several personal weapons and devices that he carries; but the strong warrior's code of honor of his culture has also fostered a tradition of duels with less sophisticated weaponry. The Swordsman's principle weapon is a blade resembling an Earthly rapier, made of advanced alloy with an extraordinary edge capable of cutting nearly any other material. It also has a built-in power pack which can electrify the blade with a stunning charge, and as he prefers not to injure a foe he'll use that against normal humans. His training and physical advantage make the Swordsman the greatest blademaster in the world. The Swordsman in many ways evokes an idealized image of our own past: he's courtly and chivalrous, always acts "honorably," and considers it his duty to protect the weak and the innocent. (Yes, this was inspired by "John Carter of Mars"... kind of in reverse.)

Re: Kong: the movie

Re: Knockback I'm inclined to agree with Dust Raven. The ability to Resist Knockback with Strength or Flight, and the option of Aborting to Resist Knockback, significantly reduce the incidence of KB IME. It's not a perfect defense since it has drawbacks, but I don't think it should be; OTOH it's a viable tactical option in certain situations, and I like players to think tactically. As per the rules I also allow Aborting to other defensive actions simultaneously with Resisting KB, including Block and similar Combat Maneuvers. Several times in my campaigns I've seen opposing bricks in my campaigns "dig in" to Resist Knockback and slug it out toe-to-toe, a common scenario in comics.

Re: Dogfight rules -- do they work? It's not quite as difficult as it seems. A few factors to keep in mind: Most air vehicles have fairly substantial DCV penalties due to size (-2 to -4 in most cases); While you do use the base OCV of the vehicle for weapons that it mounts rather than your own, you can still use any of your Combat Skill Levels applicable to the craft's weapons; A very good Combat Piloting Skill roll will put you in an advantageous position relative to your target, so in general the better pilot you are, the better you'll do in a dogfight (which is fairly close to real life); Aircraft are relatively fragile compared to other types of vehicles (low DEF), so almost any hit is probably going to be fairly damaging (The Ultimate Vehicle features optional aircraft Hit Locations which may make the detrimental effects of a hit even more immediate and urgent); It's quite acceptable to build modern aircraft weapons with innate CSLs to represent computer targetting and other advanced systems.

Re: constant spell Agreed. You would not need to make another Attack Roll after the first successful one, but you would have to pay END for the Power on each of your Phases (not every Segment).

Re: Homages you would like to see officially The VPP is a good idea. I figure such a character would also need lots of Skill Levels, high-roll Power Skill with whatever his/her main abilities were, Tactics, Deduction and quite a bit of Luck. The official CU timeline does mention what appears to be an homage to Spider-Man, the first Hornet (not to be confused with the villain in CKC). Like so many of the cool CU character concepts, though, he's Silver Age and in the present day retired or dead.

Re: Homages you would like to see officially No question, when you work out the real-world equivalents most of the CU characters are painfully slow as written, including at non-combat speeds. A more liberal application of NCM Adders would have made a world of difference, and been fairly cheap to add. The Fabulous Five (Silver-Age homages to the FF) are given writeups and detailed background/history by Darren Watts in Digital Hero #s 9-12. IMO it's a fun read - Darren's enthusiasm for the characters really shines through.

Re: Religion Hero?? Well, I have a lot of respect for Testament by Scott Bennie. IMHO it's well researched, historically and culturally accurate, and respectful of matters of real-world faith within a gaming context. If you're not familiar with it you can read about it on this webpage from the site of the publisher, Green Ronin Publishing: http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1019 Scott Bennie also happens to be one of Hero Games's top freelance writers, and recently shared his own rather detailed thoughts on translating the D20 Testament into HERO terms with us here on the discussion boards: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=915695

Re: Gravitar vs Graviton? None of them could even lay a finger on Heisenberg Man.

Re: My first post... Welcome aboard! Always nice to see a prodigal return. To be honest, Champions and Hero in general almost did bite the biscuit a few years ago, but it's pretty thriving now. We have a Fifth Edition of the universal HERO System ruleset, a host of published books covering multiple genres (far better non-supers support than in the old days), and a management that's accessible and responsive. The online community of HEROphiles is particularly large and active, and has contributed tons of free unofficial stuff in support of the game. Feel free to ask any questions or request any help from us. We're a generally friendly and helpful bunch who love to show off how much we know.

Re: Killing Damage DCs Essentially it's just to allow you to give weapons in your campaign some variety, to distinguish one from another even if their costs and other mechanical details are the same. The differences between the two methods, while real, are too small to warrant them being given a different cost.

Re: What would a munchkin do? Answering the topic of the thread more directly, I tend to encourage characters to grow in breadth rather than power. While I usually enforce Damage Class caps in my campaigns, I'm fairly open to any PCs buying Skill Levels (combat and noncombat), various Skills, Martial Arts and Talents. I make a note of circumstances in the course of the campaign which would justify a character gaining particular abilities, and when a player wants to spend Experience to upgrade we go over the precedents and come to an agreement on what would be appropriate and desirable for the PC to improve on.

Re: What would a munchkin do? I think CourFool's references could probably use a bit of explanation. "Super Skills" is a concept developed for the Dark Champions modern-day adventure line, whereby the extraordinary abilities often displayed by "action heroes" in over-the-top movies are written up using the Powers system. A bunch of HEROphiles created a thread full of their own original Super Skills on the DC forum, which you can read here. CF's reference to Mark "Markdoc" Doherty is to his excellent website, Mark's Astounding Cyber Empire O'Doom. Mark translated the HERO Martial Arts Maneuvers into Power builds suitable for placement in Frameworks like a Multipower, which has benefits and drawbacks when compared to the official MA system. You can read about it here. Note that these writeups are for 4E HERO System, so the costs will be a little different than if they were built under 5E. On that point, though, our forum colleague Hierax did provide a fine detailed PDF with all the HERO MA maneuvers built in this fashion for 5E, as well as putting them together in styles suitable for fantasy campaigns, and even translating the art of the Monk class from D&D, including the progression in abilities as the monk gains Experience. Quite an impressive piece of work. Interested folks can download the PDF from here.

Re: Yuletide travel powers HERO writeups for Santa.