Sean Waters

Everyone keeps pointing out that in Heroic you don’t pay for points for mundane equipment in game. For normal equipment that’s true but the rules say that you should pay for unique items with points.  So I would base the cost on Spells rather than mundane equipment.

Fish Champions: I've haddock nuff of that one.

So, this made me look up 'Deduction':
 
Deduction, an Intellect Skill, represents the ability to take several facts and leap to an inobvious conclusion — the classic detective’s skill.
Complementary Skills include any Skill directly connected with the problem confronting the character (such as Bureaucratics for a paperwork mystery). 
 
That made me look up 'Bureaucratics':
 
A character with this Interaction Skill can deal with bureaucrats, cut through red tape, and extract information from bureaucracies. He also knows the right people to talk to (for just about anything) and how to reach them. Bureaucratics comes in handy when characters need travel papers in a foreign country, go through Customs, have to arrange an appointment, and so on.
Bureaucratic procedures usually take time, from several hours to several days. 
 
Whilst it may not be immediately intuitive, canvassing witnesses for information is mainly an exercise in repetitive paperwork and organisation, with some social  and background skills thrown in.  I reckon what you are after is, in fact Bureaucratics with AK: City / PS: Police Work / Conversation / Streetwise as complimentary skills.  It can take time, sometimes a lot of time, but a good roll may cut that time down on the time chart considerably.
 
Once you have gathered the information, that is when the Deduction comes in handy

Knowing the truth is the best way to tell a lie if the liar is telling lies in regards to a particular subject; so, in some instances, background skills like Professional Skills, Science Skills or Knowledge Skills could be substituted.  As someone who would have PS: Computer Technician in real life, I can often tell if someone claiming to be a technician is really a technician or just reading scripts and tossing out technical terms just to sound smart.

OK, took more than half an hour, but....
 
 
 
Right, tear out all the bits about existing social interaction skills and replace with the following:
 
Skill name: Feel free to change this to better reflect your character, but changing the name does not change what the skill does, just the flavour of the skill.
Definition: What the skill allows you to do.
Characteristic base: the characteristic that the skill roll is based on.
Resistance: what the subject of the skill attempt can use to try and reduce or remove the effect of the skill in a skill v skill contest.  In addition to whatever is listed, the subject can always use a characteristic roll at -2 (usually the same as the characteristic base for the skill to resist the effect of the skill use).
 
Skill name: Argument
Definition: The ability to make someone accept information (and act on that information) using logic.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Argument, Cross Examination and any relevant Psychological Complication.
 
Skill name: Cross Examination
Definition: Finding any inconsistencies or errors in a statement.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Lying. 
 
Skill name: Lying
Definition: The ability to tell a consistent lie or avoid providing certain information.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Cross Examination
 
Skill name: Persuasion
Definition: The ability to make someone accept information (and act on that information) based on emotion.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Persuasion, Insight or any relevant Psychological Complication
 
Skill name: Insight
Definition: The ability to determine someone’s true emotional state and whether they are trying to emotionally influence you.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Persuasion or Dissembling.
 
Skill name: Dissembling
Definition: The ability to conceal your true feelings or intentions.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight
 
Skill name: Charm
Definition: the ability to make someone feel positive toward you.  Generally people that you charm will feel well disposed toward you and be willing to see the best in you.  This can act as a Complimentary Skill for many other Social interaction Skills.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight, or Psychological Complications
 
Skill name: Intimidate
Definition: the ability to make someone feel negative toward you.  Generally people that you intimidate become fearful of you.  This can act as a Complimentary Skill for many other Social interaction Skills.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight, or Psychological Complications
 
Skill name: Imitation/Mimicry
Definition: the ability to observe and copy the physical mannerisms of another person or thing.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Insight or Cross Examination
 
Skill name: Oppress
Definition: the ability to make someone feel a negative emotion about themselves
Characteristic base:
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Inspire
Definition: the ability to make someone feel a positive emotion about themselves
Characteristic base:
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Engage
Definition: The ability to draw and hold someone’s attention, which can be useful for distracting them and may act as a complimentary skill in some social situations.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Animal Training
Definition: The ability to condition an animal to do what you want it to.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Pychological Complications
 
Skill name: Animal Empathy
Definition: The ability to understand the emotions of an animal and react appropriately.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Psychological Complications
 
 
So, to determine someone’s motivations you’ll want the Cross Examination and/or Insight Skills, possibly backed up with Charm and Engage.
 
Cross Examination will not help much with the motivation but can detect lies (assuming you can get the subject to talk to you) and may give some pointers to the truth (as they understand it) if they are, indeed, lying.
 
Insight will not help you get at the truth as such but will detect lies and may get you some idea as to why the subject is lying.
 
OK, let us assume that there is an NPC who is lying to the PC.  The NPC is lying because he has been told to because a member of his family is being threatened.
 
Have the NPC roll Lying and Dissembling, and make a note of how well they do.  The PC has to roll at least that well on Cross Examination or Insight to get any information.  So if the NPC had an 12- roll with Lying and actually rolled 8, the PC has to succeed by 4 or more to get any useful information with their Cross Examination roll.  Even if the NPC fails their roll (say they rolled a 13), the PC still has to make a roll, but, effectively, gets a +1 on their roll to succeed and get some useful information.
 
If the Cross Examination roll succeeds then the PC is confident that the NPC is lying.  In addition the PC finds out either that the NPC does not know the truth (if they do not) or some or all of the truth (if the NPC knows it), depending on how well they roll.
 
If the Insight roll succeeds then the PC is confident that the NPC is lying.  In addition the PC finds out some or all of the truth about why the NPC is lying and may then be able to use that knowledge to succeed in an Argument or Persuade roll to find out more.
 
Something like that.  You can use other skills (like Charm or Intimidate) as complimentary skills or simply to get the NPC talking in the first place - one very effective way to stymie information extraction is to say nothing at all.
 
This is not that well thought through and not at all play tested but it seems to have the potential to give more nuance to social interaction.  Maybe give it a go and let me know?
 
 

And another adage of Hero system is even though something could be legally bought, if it breaks the spirit of the game then it’s abusive.

Because Conversation and Persuasion already cover the "Polite Company" part?
 
I once did a breakdown using real-life iterrogation techniques. Including stuff like God-Cop/Bad-Cop. The end result was that kinda off Interrogation was only left to deal with outright Torture. Everything else was covered by other skills, assisting roles, complimentary rolls or bonuses.

OK, took more than half an hour, but....
 
 
 
Right, tear out all the bits about existing social interaction skills and replace with the following:
 
Skill name: Feel free to change this to better reflect your character, but changing the name does not change what the skill does, just the flavour of the skill.
Definition: What the skill allows you to do.
Characteristic base: the characteristic that the skill roll is based on.
Resistance: what the subject of the skill attempt can use to try and reduce or remove the effect of the skill in a skill v skill contest.  In addition to whatever is listed, the subject can always use a characteristic roll at -2 (usually the same as the characteristic base for the skill to resist the effect of the skill use).
 
Skill name: Argument
Definition: The ability to make someone accept information (and act on that information) using logic.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Argument, Cross Examination and any relevant Psychological Complication.
 
Skill name: Cross Examination
Definition: Finding any inconsistencies or errors in a statement.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Lying. 
 
Skill name: Lying
Definition: The ability to tell a consistent lie or avoid providing certain information.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Cross Examination
 
Skill name: Persuasion
Definition: The ability to make someone accept information (and act on that information) based on emotion.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Persuasion, Insight or any relevant Psychological Complication
 
Skill name: Insight
Definition: The ability to determine someone’s true emotional state and whether they are trying to emotionally influence you.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Persuasion or Dissembling.
 
Skill name: Dissembling
Definition: The ability to conceal your true feelings or intentions.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight
 
Skill name: Charm
Definition: the ability to make someone feel positive toward you.  Generally people that you charm will feel well disposed toward you and be willing to see the best in you.  This can act as a Complimentary Skill for many other Social interaction Skills.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight, or Psychological Complications
 
Skill name: Intimidate
Definition: the ability to make someone feel negative toward you.  Generally people that you intimidate become fearful of you.  This can act as a Complimentary Skill for many other Social interaction Skills.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Insight, or Psychological Complications
 
Skill name: Imitation/Mimicry
Definition: the ability to observe and copy the physical mannerisms of another person or thing.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Insight or Cross Examination
 
Skill name: Oppress
Definition: the ability to make someone feel a negative emotion about themselves
Characteristic base:
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Inspire
Definition: the ability to make someone feel a positive emotion about themselves
Characteristic base:
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Engage
Definition: The ability to draw and hold someone’s attention, which can be useful for distracting them and may act as a complimentary skill in some social situations.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Psychological Limitations
 
Skill name: Animal Training
Definition: The ability to condition an animal to do what you want it to.
Characteristic base: INT
Resistance: Pychological Complications
 
Skill name: Animal Empathy
Definition: The ability to understand the emotions of an animal and react appropriately.
Characteristic base: PRE
Resistance: Psychological Complications
 
 
So, to determine someone’s motivations you’ll want the Cross Examination and/or Insight Skills, possibly backed up with Charm and Engage.
 
Cross Examination will not help much with the motivation but can detect lies (assuming you can get the subject to talk to you) and may give some pointers to the truth (as they understand it) if they are, indeed, lying.
 
Insight will not help you get at the truth as such but will detect lies and may get you some idea as to why the subject is lying.
 
OK, let us assume that there is an NPC who is lying to the PC.  The NPC is lying because he has been told to because a member of his family is being threatened.
 
Have the NPC roll Lying and Dissembling, and make a note of how well they do.  The PC has to roll at least that well on Cross Examination or Insight to get any information.  So if the NPC had an 12- roll with Lying and actually rolled 8, the PC has to succeed by 4 or more to get any useful information with their Cross Examination roll.  Even if the NPC fails their roll (say they rolled a 13), the PC still has to make a roll, but, effectively, gets a +1 on their roll to succeed and get some useful information.
 
If the Cross Examination roll succeeds then the PC is confident that the NPC is lying.  In addition the PC finds out either that the NPC does not know the truth (if they do not) or some or all of the truth (if the NPC knows it), depending on how well they roll.
 
If the Insight roll succeeds then the PC is confident that the NPC is lying.  In addition the PC finds out some or all of the truth about why the NPC is lying and may then be able to use that knowledge to succeed in an Argument or Persuade roll to find out more.
 
Something like that.  You can use other skills (like Charm or Intimidate) as complimentary skills or simply to get the NPC talking in the first place - one very effective way to stymie information extraction is to say nothing at all.
 
This is not that well thought through and not at all play tested but it seems to have the potential to give more nuance to social interaction.  Maybe give it a go and let me know?
 
 

We actually have a similar Thread:
 
The downside would be that you can not make a police officer that is just bad at this part of the work.
PS: Policing presumably also includes stuff like "doing Paperwork".
Interogation in the Precinct setting
Knowledge of the streets on your city part
And if you give it to players, you can bet they will try to find new ways to use something so poorly defined. You know, stuff like it replacing Weapon Skill or even Weapon Repair skill for pistols, Quickdraw and just about any other gun related skill.
 
 
I want to try something new for these challenges/questions, and that is to look how other Systems dealt with it.
Warhammer Fantasy:
Charm, Intimidate and event Torture might apply for a uncooperative witness (hates the police or whatever). But you need to know someone is lying/omitting something to even know to try. So that does not solve the problem.
Gossip might work, but only for "easy" information. Stuff they want to talk about anyway or at least do not mind. But it is also a "Racial Skill" for all Humans.
 
Shadowrun 4E:
Assensing and the Judge Intentions derived score might be used to figure out someone is lying.
Con, Negotiation and Leadership could be used to convince a unwilling informant
Ettiquette might also have a palce (like Warhammer Fantasy Gossip)
 
Hero 6E:
Bribery, Charm, Interrogation, Persuasion can be used to convince a unwilling Witness Oratory might work too, if you do not know a specific person who might have omitted/lied towards you
Conversation matche the Ettiquette/Gossip Scenario of the other systems. The way to get the low level information.
Streetwise/High Society act as complimentary skills
And we could not agree what even to use to detect a lie/omission
 
 
 
I want to point out that OpenLegends has two interesting options for failing the roll:
"Success with a Twist" (like an additional challenge at the next step)
"Failure but the Adventure continues" (you might notice someone was lying and you need to apply interrogation)
 
If it is information you need the players to have, you will have the alternative route pre-mapped (hopefully). But there is still a bonus to having good rolls.
 
And my group just had a case where 3 Characters failed 3 Spot checks each in a row. For a critical piece of information.

You say that like it is a strange occurrence...  ?  Are not all gamer groups like that??

Seriously, that.  The group I play with it can be like herding cats.

Okay, folks--
 
for the two or three of you who were watching, I have started a new thread, primarily as a courtesy to those folks who kept seeing the "Fantasy HERO" section show new posts, only to be disappointed that it was yet another update on the scanning of Western HERO-- which, if you are one of the two or three who actually cared, is going quite well.  All pages are scanned, and about sixty of them have been fully corrected.  It won't be too long before I will be able to send Jason a decent PDF of the original book, for legal dispersal as he sees fit.  Hopefully, it will be offered as inexpensively as the other 4e books.
 
When that's done, I intend (doesn't mean it will happen soon, but it will happen eventually) to give Horror HERO the same treatment, as I have a donor copy of that as well.  "Why Western first?" you might ask if you didn't grow up watching cowboy movies in the second-run theater, or throwing yourself into your chores with wild abandon with the desperate hope that you might get done in time to watch Gunsmoke after supper?  Or maybe you didn't think Chuck Conners was all that cool making machine-gun fast deadly-accurate hip shots with with custom-cut Winchester repeater?
 
Well because wether you're a western fan or not, you're a HERO gamer, and Western HERO is not just a part of HERO's history, it's an extremely important part of HERO's history.  We all know that in third edition, there were actually a number of different games all using what was essentially Champions, rubbed smooth here, chiseled a bit there, re-named or re-worked a tiny bit to give each Power, each Skill-- each Advantage and Limitation that we know today as "HERO System" a bit of genre-inspired flavor.  Most of the five Children of Champions even had additional rules or brand-new Skills or Modifiers unique to their particular title.  Then Fourth Edition-- even I, a dyed-in-the-wool 2e player-- recognize what an amazing feat Fourth Edition was.  Fourth edition took everything from everywhere-- everything found in previous editions, previous Champions-rules games, and all the previously published material, re-polished and re-chiseled and re-named and re-branded everything until it worked into one cohesive system (except EDM.  That's just a bugbear no matter what you do with it) in which everything worked with everything else.  It was incredible!  Most incredible?  It was _completely_ backwards compatible!  Change END costs back to 1/5; change Range Modifiers back to what they were (usually 1/4) and bam!  old school could use all the new stuff, too.  It was a Golden Age for HERO, and one that I confess to missing terribly.
 
But life goes on until it doesn't!  Or, as my grandfather would tell me when I felt crushed, "it either kills you or it don't.  If it didn't, you can either keep going, or waste a hell of a lot of time and effort pretending that it did."  With the combining of all the rules into one book, HERO had, perhaps unintentionally; until I meet Bruce Harlick, I'll never know for sure, created a vacuum for those folks who played those Champions-based games that were not actually Champions.  Thus, the genre book was born-- there was a need for more specificity: how do I use the rules in this kind of game?  What are the core themes that make this genre a unique environment in which to play?
 
And all that room!  Those big, vast 200-page and more books!  Not only were there notes on the genre, but details and, when appropriate, histories of the genre, typical recurring themes of the genre, example characters, suggestions for running games over-all and your favorite genre in particular.  (Oddly, the closest we ever got to Justice, Inc was Dark Champions, and frankly-- that ain't real close.)  Still, as talented people set out to write these books, they would realize that the conventions of many genres required additional rules not in the new Fourth Edition rules.  Why not?  Well, when players opened a box labeled "Espionage!," they instinctively knew what the them was-- what the conventions were, and their mindset slipped into that with ease.  The rules had been custom-tailored to keep that feel all the way from learning to play to closing a ten-year campaign.  
 
It was much harder to get that feel if you _knew_ that you were using a flavor book to recolor a set of rules for a superhero game.  How to get that genre feel?  In addition to all the above-mentioned things, writers of these books often discovered things unique to that genre-- well, perhaps "unique" is too-strong a word.  They discovered things that were taken for granted in the main rules, but that were important to the flavor of a particular setting-- adding new Characteristics is an excellent example, as is Quick Draw and Hip Shot.  So these things were added as additional rules, right there in your genre book.  New Skills, new rules, new ideas-- all designed to custom build your unique genre-themed experience.  Steve Long would again, many years later, do what Harlick had done before him, and compile everything into one vast tome.  But even then, there were genre books.
 
The 5e genre books were full of exposition, and full of examples and ideas....  But they just didn't have the same feel as the 4e books.  The tiny print, the pages crammed with information overload, the general "sameness" of each book.  In spite of all the new genre books-- most of them larger than the entire Fourth Edition!-- they simply didn't have the same feel as those old books.  At the end of the day, they were exhaustive setting books.  There were a few new things here and there-- a new modifier or two, that sort of thing.  But there was just a bit of flavor missing.  Not the fault of Mr. Long, to be sure.  It felt more like his desire to cram in as much information as he could, as much finite detail as possible, was simply...  overwhelming.  There was just too much to make for fun light reading.  To be completely fair, they are _all_ far and above what I could have done; I lack the Speed Reading and Speed Writing perks that Mr. Long is blessed with, and they perfectly suit his "Research: 23-- " Skill Rolls.  I will also say, that in spite of my less-than-love for Fantasy, Tuala Morn was probably the most perfect support book written for 5e.  (I know: it's not a genre book; I hold it up as an example because, if I remember correctly, Mr. Long wrote it, and it was wonderful.  I want it to be abundantly clear that I am _not_ criticizing the most over-worked man in the gaming industry.  He's awesome!  We just have different tastes in books.  Period.)
 
But much like my Rule Books, I want my genre books punchy and easy to read, with suggestions and ideas taking a more even portion of the book with new rules, historical information, character examples, and campaign suggestions.  A nice even mixture, leaving plenty 
 
And that is one of the reasons I wanted to track down and permanently preserve the 4e genre books.  They are, to me and many other fans of the older editions, about as perfect as a genre book can be.  Not perfect (more on that in a minute), but very close.  So why did I decide to do Western HERO first?
 
Inspiration, I suppose.  It has always been my favorite genre book; I used it for almost any genre.  Why?  Well let's face it: whether it's "cool and trendy" or not in this day of "everything should be dark and cold and we political intrigue and morose and somber themes, the western is _still_ the quintessential format for American entertainment.  We don't see it as such, but even Tom Selleck in a loud Hawaiian shirt in an Italian sportscar was a cowboy sort of character, bucking the rules, using suave and charm to achieve his goals, and living how he wanted, when he wanted.  He saved poor damsels every week from the oppression of the big ranchers  uh, powerful men who would seek to crush them.  We like the strong-willed independent-- often downright hard-headed hero who triumphs because he is brave and tough and refuses to backdown; who wins simply because he is right, and that, my friends, is justice.  We like watching Charles Bronson go out into the mean streets and take on the bad guys, man-to-man, gun to gun.  No matter what the flavor of the movie is, we still crave the westerns.
 
Second, and most importantly: Western HERO, hands-down, was the single best genre book of 4e, period.  No; not because it's a western. Frankly, that, I think, is why it was so under-circulated.  People had already moved into the "westerns are dead" mindset, refusing to accept that a large chunk of what they really enjoyed was westerns with ray guns, or westerns with talking cars.  I say that Western HERO was the best because not only did it follow the formula that I dearly love: equal mixes of important information like settings, history, tropes, and themes, combined with GMing advice, playing advice and a few new ideas thrown in that we use to this day: Quick Draw, for example. More than that, it contained what we now call "Adventure Seeds."  Sturdy ones, too.  Not the two-sentence things we call by that name, but full paragraphs for each one, helping a new GM really get a grip on the idea, and just how he can use it for his current story, and modify it for recycling later.  There is an example adventure included that has maps-- not a map or two, but MAPS!  Lots of them!  Even a few smaller topographical maps (which, if you've never actually war-gamed, are really nice to gain that feel of range, isolation, cover, etc, when the shooting starts)  There is an _entire_ train in this book!  An entire town!  And, for good measure, a smaller nearly-ghost town.
 
The story is simple, but still lots of fun, and has tailoring suggestions for keeping it more-or-less on rails for newer players, or turning it into a full-fledged campaign.  It follows nearly all the tropes of a good western book or movie without making you feel like you are being "forced" into the setting.  Seriously, folks (at least, the two of you still reading at this point), this "sample adventure" is full enough and rich enough to have been marketed as a stand-alone adventure module (do we still call them that?)!
 
And if that wasn't enough, there's a campaign setting, too.  A starter campaign, set in the real historical town of Deadwood, complete with write-ups of many, many NPCs and real historical figures from the period.
 
HERO games, under any publisher, has never produced another genre book anywhere near the caliber of this book, and for reasons I don't even understand, I very much wanted to make sure that not only would I have a permanent archive of this book (after my shock to discover my own copy had walked away), I wanted to find a way to share it with everyone who never had a chance to at least decide for themselves wether or not they wanted it.
 
And that, friends and fellow fans, is why I'm doing Western HERO first.  I've got a couple of images of "progress so far" posted in the Fantasy HERO forums, under the thread "browsing through the HERO store," if you want to take a peek at my quality goals for this and other projects.
 
I was going to do an update, but I've done quite a bit of typing at this point.  Time to get back to work!
 
 
Duke
 
 
 
EDIT LIST:
 
Edit list has been cleared in preparation for Round 2

Yes, apparently the movie opens with Diana Prince and Barbara Minerva playing high stakes poker and Diana somehow losing despite having four aces.
 
The rest of the movie is a chase scene with music scored by whoever did Bennie Hill.

Enos would be watched by Boss Hogg, and have a DNPC named Daisy.

I guess I will bow out.  I think that it is a mistake to tinker round the edges without considering the broader picture.  I dont think that normal versus killing damage is equivalent to lethal versus non-lethal.
 
I would actually prefer to break the whole thing down to examine how to tailor attacks to manage STUN versus BODY damage which really would map to lethal versus non-lethal.
 
Anyway.  Good luck.

There is significantly greater logical and real world support for the concept of lethal vs non lethal attacks than there is physical vs energy attacks.  Could we just assume this system is useful and work from there to answer the questions instead of arguing the whole concept?

I would consider Inherent is an advantage that should rarely be used.  It should not be used, for example, to simply make a power undrainable.  I use it almost exclusively when a situation simply does not apply to a character: for example
 
1. RoboDog is a robot dog.  RoboDog does not have lungs or require oxygen.  RoboDog has LS(Does not breathe) that is Inherent.  It would be ridiculous for a drain to suddenly make RoboDog need to breathe.
2. Confusus has a weirdly wired brain that is hard to read because it is complex.  Confusus has Mental Defence (vs Telepathy) that is Inherent.   It would be ridiculous for a drain to suddenly make Confusus' brain less complicated.
 
I'm not so keen on the Angel/flight example because you could define your Drain as a gravity field preventing flight.  That would work, wings or not.  
 
I'm also not keen on defining something as 'so powerful it cannot be drained' because someone might have a really powerful drain.  "My Invulnerability is God Given!", "Well, my Drain is God's Dad Given."
 
Basically if it is not something you do, it is something you are then you can have Inherent, otherwise probably not, at least in my tiny little world.  It does come down, to an extent, to SFX making sense, but the system places mechanics over SFX - there is nothing preventing you buying Inherent for any power other than common sense, which, in practice, rarely stops anyone doing anything they want to do anyway; I do like to ask players why their powers work as they are built though, and if I don't like the answers, I beat them to within an inch of their lives, so that rarely happens twice.

Social media = SOCIETY DEMANDS APOLOGY!!  SOCIETY WANT APOLOGY!  GRRRRRR!   SOCIETY SMASH!

No, I think you'll find he lowered it, so that he could reach his pint.
 
Now you see, that, arguably....

I believe that there is inconsistency in the rules in the name of 'game balance'.  If two people pay the same for their flight (30m) then they should get the same benefits and effects (or at least balanced ones).
 
I do not like rules that are there for balance.  I would prefer rules that simulate reasonable expectation and if my 800 kg 50m flight 60 STR brick is grabbed by a 100kg no flight 35 STR character standing on the ground, even if the casual breakout roll fails I would not expect the character to come to a dead stop.
 
The problem is that is what the rules say happens.

No, I think you'll find he lowered it, so that he could reach his pint.
 
Now you see, that, arguably....

I still hate the Patriots, but this is pretty cool.
 

So for the British the rule of 3 is complete, Ken Dodd, Professor Hawking and Jim Bowen