Joe Walsh

Why do Supers need to have better DEX rolls if DEX has nothing to do with their power suite?  A "really slow" Brick is not logically twice as agile as an average person (whether we use 8 or 10 as "average").
 
I am fine with an 8-10 STR Super.  INT or EGO of 8 - 10?  Sure. BOD of 8-10?  Why not? CON?  Better have enough to resist Stunning.  Supers get a lot of strenuous exercise, so I can accept that they have higher CON across the board. PRE?  Well, you need something to defend against PRE attacks, anyway. Putting on a spandex suit and running off to fight crime probably requires some chutzpah, so whether we define that self-confidence as PRE or EGO to defend against typical PRE attacks, most Supers likely have some. So why is a "no more agile than the average dude" Super inconceivable?
 
Now, most Supers would still be 10 - 13 (aligning with the current 20 - 23), and given the preponderance of 23 in the current model, I would expect a lot of 13 (a bit better than the average guy), but "a bit better than the average guy" is not a "SLOW" anything.
 
 
Definitely.  What was the point of de-linking OCV and DCV, and removing DEX from both, to just make everyone 23 DEX, 8 OCV and 8 DCV?  DEX ranges could have become much more like INT and STR ranges - unless the hero is notable for agility, average DEX is fine.
 
However, Hero has always prized backward compatibility.  This may have acted to its detriment - try playing 2e D&D with a 4e adventure or source book.  "New editions" in most systems mean "if you want to use new source material, you will need to buy the new edition".  Hero did not adopt that built-in marketing tool that really began with 3e D&D.
 

I both agree and disagree. Where this boat was missed was the change to 6th.
 
Your parameters are off by one category though.
 
-The Really slow Bricks would have DEX of 13-17.
 
-Typical Supers would be DEX 18-21.
 
-Quicker types would hit DEX 23-27 and Speedsters and such would be higher.
 
The reason I differ is because of one factor: Skill Rolls. Supers need the higher base DEX to be better than  any Normal naturally. (You could change the 9+ Characteristic/5 basis but then that skews the 3d6 mechanic. Chaos ensues.)
 
Typical Supers need to be in that 13 or less roll range for DEX based Skills because Hero is actually played not scripted. In genre, Heroes tripping or failing to catch a falling item or missing a jump is done for dramatic purposes . At 11 or 12 or less, this would occur nearly 1/3 of the time. Yes, you can mitigate this with bonuses to the base Skill but in the end, Supers should be better than a Normal.
 
But that doesn't mean that the gap should be as great as it is in the published material. The biggest failing of 6th was not going through and adjusting all the established NPC writeups to reflect the loss of Figured Characteristics( admittedly this would have been a big pile of work, but 6th was sorta announced with 5th  cruising along, another month or two may have been a better option but I don't know the behind the scenes story.). In particular DEX could have come down a notch across the board but the OCV and DCV values should have been evaluated on a case by case basis.  Because the easy way was taken, 95% or more of the 6th NPC's have CV's equivalent to DEX/3.
 
Basically the migration to 6th was incomplete. Figured  Characteristics were dropped but all the example writeups  were done as if they were still in place. It made moving from 5th easier in some ways but failed to set parameters for the new paradigm. Yes, a big part of the philosophy of 6th was to be more permissive, but for newcomers  the lack of structure was a greater barrier than an aid. (It's even a problem for veterans, hence this thread.)  
 
I'm not ignoring SPD here but that escalation was actually started with the change to END Costs in 4th. Before that SPD of 6 or higher had prohibitive issues with END use and REC. 

If Figured provided good guidance for half or a third of Figured, I submit that they did not provide good guidance. From 1e, we built characters based on the example characters in the book, not any specific build guidance.
 
In fact, I have wondered in the past how different builds would have been if the sample characters had centered around 10 DEX (base level) instead of setting "average Super" at 20 - 23 DEX.  Imagine if every character had their DEX reduced by 9 or 10, and SPD by 2.  We would have:
 
 - Really slow Bricks with 8 DEX (maybe even 5), 3 (even 2) base CV and 2 SPD;
 - Typical Supers with 11 - 14 DEX, 4 - 5 CV and 3 SPD;
 - Above average Supers with 17 - 18 DEX, 6 CV and 4 SPD;
 - Really fast Supers with 20  -23 DEX, 7 - 8 CV and 5 - 6 SPD
 
And room for some REALLY agile/speedy Supers exceeding even those stellar levels.
 
We'd also save about 40 points on the typical pre-6e Super (30 from 10 DEX and 10 from 1 SPD).  END, STUN and REC would last longer with more frequent PS 12 recoveries, which would save more points. Those extra points could go into starting characters with broader abilities, who feel more "super", without some of the point bloat experienced over the years.  Instead, we have "I'm pretty pokey for a Super - only a bit over the normal characteristic maximum".
 
We'd have cops and agents who can accurately target Supers who are not unusually agile/fast, trained military who look skilled when compared to Supers and agents who could hit Supers. That feels a lot more comic booky. Those Agents could also get by with 6 - 8 DC Blasters that, while they can hit, are no real threat to high defense Bricks.  Again, that feels a lot more comic booky.

That was the great thing about the 4e BBB: you could run the game with just that book. Some of us did that for many many sessions. The BBB had not only the rules, but how to run a superhero RPG, a multipart adventure, a goodly number of hero and villain pregens, and a good amount of info on Viper.

They used to run Joe Bob Briggs reviews in the "Pink Section" of the San Francvisco Chronicle, and those were always a joy to read. He knew what we all wanted....

I fully expect that in any Gamma World campaign that somewhere in the world there'll be a HERO games office still faithfully putting out one or two supplements per year.

I have an answer to that question (actually, I've had it since soon after 6E was released):  While Steve, you, all of SETAC, and I have those formulas memorized and can tell at a glance where the old Figureds 'should' be, a new player doesn't have that.  New player - "Okay, I'll make a Brick so 60 STR for a 12d6N attack... hmmm, where should PD/ED/REC/END/STUN be?" 6E made it more difficult for a new player/GM to answer that question.  Same with DEX and OCV/DEC, but to a lesser extent.
 
Completley minor quibble here (I *like* being able to buy CV separate from DEX) but pre-6E you could technically buy DEX, Only For [OCV, DCV, or OCV and DCV].  I've never seen it, and without an official Limitation value the debate on the correct value would be hurricane-strength, and it gets klunky with Aids and Drains... but it was RAW-legal.
 
Side note:  I think the authors forgot the severing of DEX and CV, at least for a while, in 6E characters.  Kinetik's Dizzying Spin DEX Drain?  Sure, it makes the opponent slower to react each Phase, but doesn't do a thing to OCV/DCV like it would have in 5E and earlier.
 
Also, thanks for all the behind-the-curtain thinking in your post! 👍

Some of the cost reduction thinking stemmed from trying to balance the STR, CON and DEX costs. DEX was the sleeper as, pre-6e, you could not just buy OCV and DCV, but anyone who ever tried to build an expert combatant with modest DEX and skill levels figured it out pretty quickly.
 
At some point, I believe Steve Long just said "if we get Primary and Figured to balance out right, why bother keeping the link?"  Good question.  If "CON no figured + Figured" = "CON with Figured", why have two ways the build the exact same thing?
 
I think we ended up with 1 point STR working better, and "5 points for 1 DC" makes higher-cost STR unpalatable at best. 
 
CON is a character tax. You need enough to avoid being stunned by average hits.
 
DEX - my initial thought was that 2 points was overpriced, but I have come to believe DEX is priced right, while PRE and INT are underpriced.
 
BOD is another character tax - buy enough to not need a new character every few sessions.
 
I think DEX, INT and PRE should have been assessed en bloc, likely dragging EGO in as well and reviewing skill levels. My view?
 
Price DEX, INT and PRE at 2 points.  For 5 points, you can buy +1 with all skill and characteristic rolls based on one stat (not perception).  For 5 points, you can  buy +1 with all perception rolls, +5 Lighting Reflexes or +1d6 PRE attacks.  These are each based on a -1 limitation to +5 of the characteristic.  Scale the costs down if they are more limited, right down to "+1 with 1 skill" = the cost of improving the skill.
+1 with only one roll based on that stat at a time should be reduced to 3 points.  +1 with only one roll (including +1 to a single skill) drops to 1 point.  You can have +1 to all rolls in a tight group for 4 points, and +1 to any one roll at a time in a tight group for 2 points.
 
Wait, where did PRE DEF go?  Well, that becomes the exclusive domain of EGO, which stays 1 point.  PRE DEF gets priced at half a point.  The rest of EGO (EGO rolls and resistance to mental powers) is the other half.
 
Drifting further, STR is also still a pain when we look at Hand Attack and Martial Arts DCs.  An MA DC is +5 STR, only for combat effects for a group of HTH attacks (whether MA or non-MA), 0 END.  5 x 1.5 = 7.5, so that’s about a -3/4 limitation to get down to 4 points.  Just losing Lifting would normally be -1/4 (so 4 points).  Only MA or non-MA seems reasonably priced at either a further -1/4, or -1/2.  If we keep -1/2, an MA DC is a bit more pricy, but shorthanding it to 4 points seems OK.  But I think most Martial Artists rarely use STR for non-MA purposes, so -1/4 feels more appropriate and an MA DC becomes -1/2 = 5 points.
 
 
Now, what about “direct damage only”, which is a Hand Attack?  That has to be less pricy, right?  Maybe another -1/2, which would make the limitation -1 and Hand Attack costs 2.5 points per +1d6.
 
 
However, that still leaves things like Deadly Blow and Weaponmaster.  Maybe we need a concept of "DC adders".  Deadly Blow and Weaponmaster suggest that "only to increase damage" is a -1/2 limitation on a skill level.  I think it is higher - OCV and DCV are worth at least half of the value of a skill level.  So, if we started with the premise that +1 DC for any one attack at a time is 10 points (2 skill levels with All Combat, damage only (-1)), we could move to HTH only (either a -1/2 limitation, so 20/2.5 = 8 or 2 8 point skill levels only to add damage = 8).
 
Working down from there, maybe "only for martial maneuvers" or "only for non-martial maneuvers" are -1/2 limitations (tacked on to HTH only).  That drops me down to 20/3 = 6.67 per +1 DC with all martial arts maneuvers, or all non-martial maneuvers.  I'm also at 8 for all ranged maneuvers, or 6 2/3 if they can only be with martial or non-martial maneuvers. 
 
These cost no END.  Since the base at +1 DC costs 10 points, they should cost 1 END, so STR bundles these in at half END (+2 DC at 20/3.25, still over 6 points).  The math is pushing to the conclusion that STR is also underpriced, isn't it?  It does not feel like a full 2 points, though - STR with no damage a -2 limitation, and STR that only enhances damage at -1/2?  Maybe 2 points is not out of the realm of possibility.  Break our mindset of Active Points and let the Brick spend 100 points on +50 STR and perhaps we'd be OK.

I thought you might find these developments regarding America's northern neighbor to be of some interest, particular for those of you in the US where there's some spillover.
 
'We're effectively a border state with Russia': Defending Canada's far-north called key to protecting sovereignty
 
This is not just a hypothetical issue. Russia has recently been restoring closed Cold War-era air bases in the Arctic, and even expanding them. The country has long followed a policy of asserting claims to resource-rich Arctic waters, and deploying air and naval units to back up their claims. And as during the Cold War, should the United States find itself in direct conflict with Russia, the shortest route to the US is over us. The old NATO early-warning systems in the high North, like the DEW line, are obsolete against modern ballistic missiles.
 
Identities of nearly all the people arrested at the Freedom Convoy protest remain secret
 
The approach the Canadian federal government and police have been taking has some unsettling implications. While the majority of protesters arrested were released fairly promptly, there's been no response to frequent media requests for the identities of those charged, nor what they're charged with. I'm also disturbed by government security officials declaring that "there's no doubt" that those who organized the Ottawa protest "came to overthrow the government," and even that they may have been incited by "foreign entities," but offering no proof of those claims.
 
I've seen those tactics and heard that kind of language many times before, almost always from parties unconcerned with human rights or the rule of law.

It's simple. Because you don't get them for free anymore.
 
Pre 6th: A Brick with 65 STR, 33 CON and 15 BODY has a starting 20 REC,  66 END and 65 STUN.
 
In 6th: Those same starting Characteristics will still leave you staring at 4 REC, 20 END and 20 STUN.
 
STR has the same price in 6th because it's still gives an attack. BODY lost it's bonus to STUN but is still useful. But CON went from "must purchase as much as I can justify" to "I'll purchase as little as I can to avoid being Stunned by typical attacks".
 
The reduction in the previously Figured Characteristics was done to keep pricing closer between editions. A direct translation of any character from 5th to 6th will be more expensive but the gap would be even greater without the price changes. 

Of course you could always use the 2e/3e guidelines. They work quite nicely, as long as you neutralize the extra dice you have to roll in 5e/6e.

Lady P would like to nominate Who Moved My Cheese? 
 
I will happily second the nomination. Corporate-driven tripe, rife with platitudes formulated to keep the peasants from getting too uppity. 

Mazes and Monsters by Rona Jaffe. Trash novel written about a fictional role-playing game and the lives it ruined. I have a hard cover copy somewhere in my books, that I found in a thrift store for twenty-five cents; I might have over-paid.
 
It was converted into a made-for-TV movie in 1982, which is most notable for starring Tom Hanks in his first movie role.

I must say that I'm still not fond of nationalism.

The thing is we're talking about  company approved products to be marketed as the official campaign.
 
It just makes sense that there would be an overall editor that makes final company approvals.
 
We can get general guidelines for submissions but before they get the official stamp of approval and are sent to PDF/printer, they need to be vetted so they are consistent with those guidelines. There has to be a line and quality control editorial system in place.
 
Will this have problems? I can see authors not wanting too many changes to their creations and there is a danger of too much of the same old thing min each product. But this is the only way to consistency. Otherwise we will end up repeating the mistakes that led to Dr. D and Takofanes.

Race car driver tweets out translated "FSB memos." Are they real? Who knows!  It's interesting reading for sure.
https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937?s=20&t=gWvbTHlNSt5tfnDSuQaOfghttps://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937?s=20&t=gWvbTHlNSt5tfnDSuQaOfghttps://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937?s=20&t=gWvbTHlNSt5tfnDSuQaOfg
 

All too fidgety for me.
 
The damage STR can add to an object is limited by the def/bdy of the object.  Grond may have the potential for 6d6, but the hat pin will snap long before.

Introduction to Algebra

Lyndon Johnson's "guns and butter" approach to war was never practical. Wars are messy and costly, in every sense. The wider the conflict, the more people suffer. That's why the only people who want war are those who don't believe they'll personally suffer for it, and don't care who else does.

I'm not entirely sure where we got the idea that we needed a new rules book; I think I had mentioned before that CC would serve well enough.  I would _like_ to see something more like PS238, but the primary goal is a way to draw people.
 
As Chris pointed out, there are lots of re-hashes of...  well, _everything_ for D&D, _however_--
 
I think we can all agree that, at least for the past twenty years, Champions doesn't have the kind of recognition that brings that sort of luxury.  Still, I would think a single slim setting; some adventures as a single book would be a good thing.
 
 

I just miss good clean line art.  Portraying the most with the least.  Line art is poetry amongst the prose of flashy colors, cell shading, washes, and filters.
 

 
 

Willinghan and Dee. Maybe it's age, I miss the cartoon style. Reynolds and all of the current artist are good, no doubt. Does it have to be THAT realistic though?
 
 
 

1981 -- Boot Hill