Killer Shrike

As noted that Lim is in 4th Ed. However, I prefer the new way to do it using Duplication as that is the most direct way to simulate the 2 (or more) - body aspect of the Astral projection concept. By the way, as an aside, does anyone remember a comic from a long long time back, Para something IIRC, where one of the characters manifested intangible 'anti-body' duplicates? They were black sillouettes with I think gold flecks in them. It was a strange series IIRC, but interesting. Thanx!

Hi Steve; been following this in the HERO Systems Discussion and noticed the rules question you answered earlier (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2682) Just to clarify for my own purposes: In the case of the example concept noted whereby a power is bought through a FOCI and is powered by Continuing Charges. As I understand it: 1) If the controlling character uses a Charge from the FOCI the effects of the Continuing Charge stick around for the duration of the Charge even if the FOCI is switched out of the VPP. BUT 2) If the controlling character uses a charge from the FOCI and then lends the FOCI to a friend/teammate to use, the controlling character cannot switch the FOCI out of thier VPP until they get the FOCI back (or if they did not apply FOCI to the Control Cost, until the FOCI is lost/destroyed) as noted under the VPP rules in FREd. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules? Thanx!

Yes, I am aware that you were discussing Continuing Charges; that is why the general info regarding FOCI in VPPs came first followed by the specific paragraph that begins As far as Continuous Charges. The 1st para is relevant to situations where you have a Power in a VPP bought through a Universal Focus (which may or may not have Charges) and then lend that Focus out. If you do have a Continuing Charge item that is part of an item usable by others via a FOCI and you lend that FOCI out to friends while switching your VPP around IT DOES COUNT AGAINST THE VPP POINTS as noted in the 1st paragraph in my first post. You seem to be confusing powers bought with Charges and powers bought through FOCI which have Charges. A Charge is not an Item per se, it is a power source (although Recoverable can often blur this line conceptually) and cant be lent out to anyone directly; rather the effects of the power you attach a Continuing Charge will continue. To take your example: If you have a Ring which grants Invisibility at the will of the wearer, then the ring is a FOCI which contains 1 or more charges and its not a question of whether the Continuing Charge persists when you switch the VPP around, rather it falls under the rules for lending out powers from a VPP bought via a FOCI; you cant switch those points out because they are locked into the FOCI you loaned out. In other words, its a function of the FOCI which allows others to use powers out of your VPP, not a function of Charges. If you have a FOCI which has Charges, then yes others can use the FOCI if you have defined it as Universal, but you cant switch the Real Cost points in that FOCI out of you VPP while the FOCI is lent out. By contrast, if you want to endow someone else with Invisibility without using a Focus and apply a Continuing Charge to that you would also have to apply either UBO or UBA to Invisibility (normally Self-Only IIRC), depending on whether the target or you had control over the effects of the power, in addition to the Continuing Charge limitation. I.e., If you want to be able to 'cast a spell'/grant the benefits of a power to another character and then switch the points out of the VPP and have the effect continue, you need to use either 0 END Contin Uncontrolled or Continuing Charges and if you want the recipient to be able to use the power rather than just benefiting from the effects of the power it must also be bought UBO. In such a situation, yes, you can switch the slot out of the VPP perhaps even in combat or at will assuming your VPP's control cost is bought to allow you to do so -- and with a Skill roll by default even then, and the Continuing Charge will continue to function for its duration. Continuing Charges are the Charge equivalent of Uncontrolled and behave similarly. For this privelege the character has paid a steep price on both the VPP & Control Cost itself, and as I indicated in my first post, on the +1 Advantage (for the 1 Century increment you noted) on the power itself which serves to literally cut in half the actual Base Points available to whatever power you are using in this fashion, plus UBO if the recipient actually has control over the power for the duration and can use that power as opposed to just benefiting from the effects of your use of the power for a duration of time, or if the power is normally Self-Only. Further, because of the way Charges work in a VPP, as noted under the VPP rules, if you switch the VPP back to the Power in question the Charge remains expended; cycling it out and back into the VPP does not reset the counter. Thus there is a finite limit on how many times you can do this. As an additional control, any GM would be within his rights to say that Charges used in such a fashion dont recover while still 'active'; i.e., the GM could rule that until the Continuing Charge expires, it counts as a Charge. Finally, the primary built-in control to this application of the Continuing Charges and VPP rules, which you seem to be ignoring, is that all Continuing Charges MUST HAVE A REASONABLY COMMON WAY TO TURN THEM OFF, which consumes the charge in the process. Thus your example smoke grenade and Invisibility Ring both must have a way to turn them off that is fairly easily attained or accomplished. If they dont then they are not legal constructs and dont qualify for the Continuing Charges modifier. YMMV

If you lend out items in a VPP to pals, it still counts against the VPP. Only if they are lost or stolen does it not count against the VPP. Also, this only applies if you did not take FOCUS on the Control Cost as well. If you did apply FOCUS to the Control Cost, then the points always count against the VPP whether you lend an item out or the item is lost/stolen. Pg 210 FREd "Loosing Powers" As far as Continuous Charges, 1 Century is 15 steps down the time chart and which is a +1 Advantage, and further all Continuous Charges must have a 'reasonably common' pre-defined way to stop them. Also, +1 is half the advantage total of a 0 END Contin Uncontrolled ability which would be usable as many times as was desired, so the opportunity cost on that is fairly high. So, to do this in a 60 pool VPP, you would have 30 base points to play around with if you dont apply any other advantages (beacause of the +1 from the Century Charge) AND there must be a common way to shut the power down. Whatever you decide on as the reasonably common method of ending the charge, its highly unlikely to survive its full duration unless it is benign for all comers -- including enemies (thus no one would want to shut it down). So, looking at it from that perspective its not that big of a deal IMO. YMMV.....

In the case of a Magic VPP, it would depend on how they bought the control cost. I commonly used skill rolls for each distinct type of magic 'school' and required the applicable skill be used for a laundry list of things, including adding new spells of a type to a spellbook, creating new spells, when analyzing Magic using a Detect Magic ability, etc. A lot of players also opted to take a second small 'Cantrip' VPP which was didnt have a spellbook limitation based on the school skills to do cantrips on the fly.

I think you are missing the point, but if you dont like them then dont use them. All of the Power Frameworks are integral to the system and designed to be used to assist in the expressing of a character concept. There are many character concepts that are not possible at all without using Frameworks. The purpose of a point based system is not to limit character design, but instead to allow freeform character design; the idea is that when the character is finished the point total gives an indication of relative power for comparitive use so that theoretically 1 PC is about as good as the next PC at the same point level. HEROs without Frameworks is like a programming language without arrays, polymorphism, or late binding. You can still do a few small things, but a great deal of the flexibility and power of the system is lost, and you have to do ugly & inefficient hacks to get around some design concepts. Elemental Control is not 'free points'. Its essentially a polymorphic construct. Its a design incentive to encourage players to tightly restrict thier Special Effect and accept that in certain circumstances they will be seriously affected by an attack that will not seriously disadvantage other characters that lack an EC. In essence an Elemental Control represents 1 big flexible power, which Ill call a meta-power for clarity, which has many different applications. Thus a character with 'Magnetic Control' who is able to do several things like fly, generate a force field, manipulate objects at range, etc all at the same time is a good candidate for an EC because they have 1 meta-power with several 'power stunts' stemming from that meta-power. If a character can be said to do a list of things because of 'X' where 'X' is some central source of powers, then they have a valid EC. Multipowers are basically arrays of powers which draw from a common pool of points. They are most useful for exclusionary option sets and enable flexibility at the cost of robustness. The benefit of a MPP is matched by the fact the lack of solidity essentially. The reason why so many characters take these frameworks is because they are an intrinsic part of the system and essential to the design of many character concepts. However, if you personally do not like them then you dont have to use them in your game. Its similar to tying one arm behind your back when designing characters, but you have that right as the GM. Personally, I would not play in a supers game where Frameworks are not allowed anymore than I would write an application in PASCAL. I think that a GM who bans them does not understand the full potential of the HERO System as a design ENABLER rather than a design RESTRICTER. All of the non-point based games basically restrict character design: they say this is what you can play, this is what you can do, and this is what you can develop into with experience. Your option set is predefined. Full blown point systems like HEROs say: heres a bunch of raw materials, mould them into what you want and your only restriction is the general power level that the GM wants to run the game at. Everything in the game says, do what you want and the GM can veto anything he doesnt want in his game rather than the game designers doing that arbitrarily in the rules of the game itself. Every restriction says 'dont do this, unless your GM says you can'. It is a very permissive system, focusing on making cool characters with neat abilities. By blanket banning Frameworks, rather than just spot checking/vetoing abuses of such, a GM severely goes against this mindset. IMO, YMMV etc

OK, with the release of Millenium City we finally had a 5th Ed Silver Avenger to look at. So, we made some tweaks to John Wrath. His VPP has also been switched out since the last post. The R&D boys have been busy..... John Wrath, Agent of PRIMUS Player: Jon Bristow Val Char Cost 15/30 STR 5 15/25 DEX 15 15/20 CON 10 15/20 BODY 10 18 INT 8 15 EGO 10 15 PRE 5 10 COM 0 5/23 PD 2 5/21 ED 2 3/4 SPD 5 6/10 REC 0 30/40 END 0 34/50 STUN 3 6"/12" RUN02" SWIM01"/4" LEAP-2Characteristics Cost: 73 Cost Power END 1 Life Support (Longevity: 200 Years) 5 Regeneration: Healing 1 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (20 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) (1 Hour; -2 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120).] 8 School of Hard Knocks: VPP, 5 base + 3 control cost, Cosmic (+2) (12 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available (Set List, no variance) (Very Limited; -1) 0 1) Breakfall (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 2) Bugging (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 3) Bureaucratics (5 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 5 0 4) Climbing (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 5) Combat Driving (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 6) Combat Piloting (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 7) Concealment (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 8) Cryptography (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 9) Deduction (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 10) Demolitions (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 11) Fast Draw (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 12) Gambling (Card Games, Horse Racing, Roulette) (5 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 5 0 13) Interrogation (5 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 5 0 14) KS: Superhuman World (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 3 0 15) KS: Vietnam War History (INT-based) (5 Active Points) 15- Real Cost: 5 0 16) Lockpicking (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 17) Paramedics (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 18) PS: Law Enforcement (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 3 0 19) Security Systems (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 20) Shadowing (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 21) Stealth (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 0 22) Streetwise (5 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 5 0 23) Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) (4 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 4 0 24) Survival (Desert) (4 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 4 0 25) Survival (Tropical) (4 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 4 0 26) Survival (Mountain) (4 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 4 0 27) Systems Operation (3 Active Points) 13- Real Cost: 3 0 28) Tactics (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 29) Tracking (5 Active Points) 14- Real Cost: 5 0 30) Teamwork (5 Active Points) 13- (15-) Real Cost: 5 Cyberline Powers, all slots: Drained as an EC (Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness; -1/4) 12 1) +15 STR (15 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 1 24 2) +10 DEX (30 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 8 3) +5 CON (10 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 8 4) +5 BODY (10 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 8 5) Running +6" (12 Active Points); No Noncombat Movement (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) 1 4 6) Damage Resistance (5 PD/5 ED) (5 Active Points) 8 7) +1 Overall (10 Active Points) 12 8) +3 with HTH Combat (15 Active Points) 14 9) Combat Luck: 9 PD/9 ED (18 Active Points) 50 PRIMUS Special Agent Field-Test Equipment: VPP, 45 base + 5 control cost (68 Active Points); Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), VPP Powers Can Be Changed Only In Given Circumstance (-1/2), VPP Can Only Be Changed Between Adventures (-1/2), Limited Class Of Powers Available (Limited; -1/2), Character Has No Choice Regarding How Powers Change (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) 0 1) Cyber Eye: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 15 Real Cost) Find Weakness 14- (Related Group of Attacks) (35 Active Points); Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), OIF (Cyber-eye; -1/2), Visible (-1/4) (Real Cost: 13) plus Nightvision (5 Active Points); Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), OIF (Cyber-eye; -1/2), Visible (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) Real Cost: 15 0 2) Energy Scythe: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6 -1 (vs. ED) (40 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1 3/4), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), OIF (-1/2), Cannot Be Used With Multiple-Power Attacks (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) Real Cost: 8 0 3) Omni-Belt: Force Field (7 PD/7 ED/7 Mental Defense/7 Power Defense/2 Flash Defense: Hearing Group/2 Flash Defense: Sight Group) (32 Active Points); Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each which Recover every 1 Week (-3/4), Extra Time, Only to Activate Constant or Persistent Power (Full Phase; -1/4), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), OIF (-1/2) (not added to totals) Real Cost: 8 0 4) Subharmonic Pulseray: Flash 2d6 (Sight Group) (10 Active Points); 2 Clips of 4 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1 1/4), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), OIF (-1/2), Cannot Be Used With Multiple-Power Attacks (-1/4) Real Cost: 2 0 5) Wall-borer: Tunneling 1" through 8 DEF material (26 Active Points); 4 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1 1/2), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), IIF (-1/4) Real Cost: 7 0 6) Swingline: Swinging 10" (10 Active Points); 2 Clips of 4 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (-1 1/4), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1) Real Cost: 3 0 7) Throat Mike & Ear Bud: Radio Perception/Transmission (10 Active Points); Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (-1), IAF (-1/2), Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles -1/4), Limited Power (Only within 60" of Hovercar; -1/4) Real Cost: 3 Powers Cost: 162 Cost Martial Arts Maneuver 8 +2 HTH Damage Class(es) 4 Fast Strike: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +0 DCV, STR +4d6 Strike 3 Legsweep: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, -1 DCV, STR +3d6 Strike, Target Falls 4 Nerve Strike: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 3d6 NND 3 Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +20 STR for holding on 4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort 5 Takeaway: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab Weapon, +20 STR to take weapon away 4 Reversal: var Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, +25 STR to Escape; Grab Two Limbs 4 Shove: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +25 STR to Shove 3 Defensive Throw: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, Block, Target Falls Martial Arts Cost: 42 Cost Skill 10 +1 Overall 4 Language: French (Completely Fluent, w/Accent; Literacy) 5 Language: Vietnamese (Idiomatic, native accent; Literacy) 0 TF: Custom Adder, Small Motorized Ground Vehicles [Notes: Custom Mod is Everyman Skill] 11 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Garrote, General Purpose/Heavy Machine Guns, Grenade Launchers, Off Hand, Small Arms, Vehicle Weapons Skills Cost: 30 Cost Perk 2 Reputation, Law Enforcement, Federal Government (A large group, 11-) +1/+1d6 21 Fringe Benefit (Concealed Weapon Permit (where appropriate), Federal/National Police Powers, License to Kill, Membership: PRIMUS, Passport, Security Clearance) 36 PRIMUS Hovercar (180 Base, 60 Disad) Perks Cost: 59 Cost Talent 12 Combat Luck: 6 PD/6 ED 3 Resistance: 3 points 3 Lightsleep Talents Cost: 18 Total Character Cost: 384 Val Disadvantages 5 Distinctive Features: Scarred over eye Easily Concealed, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses 10 Enraged: When it looks like his mission will be botched Uncommon, go 11-, recover 14- 15 Hunted: Watched by Primus 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, Watching, Extensive Non-Combat Influence, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find 20 Hunted: Shadowdragon (CKC pg 193-194) 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, Harshly Punish, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find 15 Physical Limitation: -1 Sight PER All the Time, Slightly Impairing 10 Psychological Limitation: Vengeful Uncommon, Strong 10 Psychological Limitation: Driven to complete the mission Uncommon, Strong 10 Reputation: Hardass Frequently (11-) 5 Social Limitation: Public Identity (Frequently; Minor; Not Limiting In Some Cultures) 20 Social Limitation: Subject to Orders Frequently (11-), Severe 5 Vulnerability: Poisons/Toxins Uncommon Disadvantage Points: 125 Base Points: 250 Experience Required: 9 Total Experience Available: 9 Experience Unspent: 0

After play, we made a few 'makes more sense' revisions of Gravitic; here is the revised version, with a session of play under his belt: Gravitic Player: Val Char Cost 15 STR 5 17 DEX 21 16 CON 12 15 BODY 10 8 INT -2 15 EGO 10 20 PRE 10 18 COM 4 3/17 PD 0 3/12 ED 0 4 SPD 13 6 REC 0 32 END 0 31 STUN 0 6" RUN02" SWIM03"/33" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 83 Cost Power END 63 Gravitic Powers: Multipower, 95-point reserve, all slots: (95 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2) 6u 1) Micronic Mass Multiplier: Drain 6d6: END, Ranged (+1/2) (90 Active Points) (uses END Reserve) 9 4u 2) Gravitic Pulse: Energy Blast 9d6 (vs. PD), Indirect (Always from ground below target; +1/2), Double Knockback (2x KB, Target does not take Knockback; +1/2) (90 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs Opponents within 1" of the ground; -1/2) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: No Knockback, Double Knockback: The goal of the power is to knock people over. So, calculate and resist Knockback as normal, but if the target takes Knockback then they just fall down in thier hex and dont take any actual Knockback damage.] 9 4u 3) G-FORCE: Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6 +1 (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Indirect (Always from ground below target; +1/2) (87 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs Opponents within 1" of the ground; -1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Standard Effect: 10 BODY] 4 4u 4) Gravitic Fluctuator: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 +1 (vs. ED), Uncontrolled (+1/2), No Normal Defense (Body-Affecting Powers, or gravity-manipulation abilities; +1), Continuous (+1), Does BODY (+1) (90 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs Opponents within 1" of the ground; -1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Standard Effect 4 Body.] 9 5u 5) What Goes up Must Come Down: Suppress: Flight (in Air), Gliding, Swinging, Leaping 6 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Variable Effect (Four Powers Simultaneously; +1) (91 Active Points); Limited Range (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Standard Effect 20 pts.] 4 5u 6) Gravity Wins Again: Suppress: All Movement 4d6, Uncontrolled (+1/2), Area Of Effect (7" Radius; +1), Selective Target (+1/4), Variable Effect (All Powers Simultaneously; +2) (95 Active Points); No Range (-1/2) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Standard Effect 12 pts.] 9 3u 7) Gravity Alteration: Telekinesis (25 STR), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; +1), Selective Target (+1/4) (94 Active Points); Only To Pull Objects Straight Down To Earth Or Hold Them Off The Ground (-1), No Range (-1/2) (uses END Reserve) 4 2u 8) Polarity Shift: Flight 15", Ranged (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Usable As Attack (does not affect anyone with Desolidification, Power Defense, or gravity-manipulation abilities) (+1) (90 Active Points); Limited Power (Only to Hover directly above where they were standing; -1 1/2), Limited Power (Only vs Opponents within 1" of the ground; -1/2), No Noncombat Movement (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) 9 6u 9) Density Decrease: Custom Power (1/8th Weight, + 3" KB, -15 STR; +3PD, +3" Leaping) , Uncontrolled (+1/2) (90 Active Points) (uses END Reserve) [Notes: Each 20 Base Points gives its target x1/2 Mass, +1" KB, -5 STR (no figured), +1 PD, +1" Leaping. The attack is visible, the effects are not. The effect is constant and continues as long as the Endurance cost is paid to maintain the effect. The Defense is Shrinking, Growth, Density Increase, Desolid, Shape Shift. ---------------------------------------------- Reduces the average person to about 26 lbs/12.5 kg.] 9 30 Personal Gravity: Multipower, 30-point reserve 2u 1) Air Walking: Flight 6", Invisible Power Effects (Hearing Group; +1/4), Difficult To Dispel (x2 Active Points) (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); No Noncombat Movement (-1/4) 5m 2) Gravitic Leaping: Leaping +30" (3"/33" forward, 1 1/2"/16 1/2" upward) (30 Active Points); No Noncombat Movement (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) (added to Secondary Value) 3 6m 3) Gravitic Gliding: Gliding 30" (30 Active Points) Gravitic Dispersion, all slots: Drained as EC (Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness; -1/4) 10 1) Knockback Resistance -10" (20 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) 10 2) Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% (15 Active Points); Nonpersistent (-1/4) 20 3) Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Nonpersistent (-1/4) 14 4) Armor (10 PD / 5 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (28 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) 10 Fighting Costume: Armor (4 PD / 4 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (15 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) (added to Secondary Value) 18 Endurance Reserve (90 END, 9 REC) (18 Active Points) 2 Acute Hearing: Enhanced Perception (+1 to PER Rolls for Single Sense Group) Powers Cost: 229 Cost Skill 18 +6 Gravity Powers 5 +1 with DCV 1 SS: Physics (INT-based) 8- 3 Acting 13- 2 KS: Superhero World 11- 2 Language: French (Basic Conversation; Literacy) 4 Gambling (Card Games, Dice Games) 11- Everyman Skills 0 Conversation 8- 0 High Society 8- 0 Persuasion 8- 0 Riding 8- 0 Seduction 8- 0 TF: Custom Adder, Small Motorized Ground Vehicles [Notes: Custom Mod is Everyman Skill] Skills Cost: 35 Cost Perk 10 Money: Wealthy Perks Cost: 10 Total Character Cost: 357 Val Disadvantages 10 Distinctive Features: Mutant Not Concealable, Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction, Detectable Only By Unusual Senses 15 Social Limitation: Secret Identity Frequently (11-), Major 5 Social Limitation: Public ID: TV and Bad Supers Movies Occasionally (8-), Minor 10 Hunted: Gravitar 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, Watching, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find 15 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Common, Strong 20 Psychological Limitation: Code of the HERO Very Common, Strong 5 Accidental Power Use (Gravity Alteration): When suprised or frightened in Secret ID Infrequently (8-), Uncommon [Notes: If frightened/suprised, there is a chance that the "Gravity Alteration" Power is activated. In this case, it selects all targets accept Gravitic, and on a 1d6 roll of 1-2 floats all targets, 4-6 pulls them down.] 20 Normal Characteristic Maxima Disadvantage Points: 100 Base Points: 250 Experience Required: 7 Total Experience Available: 7 Experience Unspent: 0

Chitin Player: Jake Ellena Val Char Cost 8/60 STR -2 13/27 DEX 9 14/24 CON 8 12/22 BODY 4 23 INT 13 16 EGO 12 12 PRE 2 14/4 COM 2 5/50 PD 0 6/18 ED 0 3/4 SPD 7 5/17 REC 0 28/48 END 0 23/64 STUN 0 6" RUN02" SWIM01 1/2"/11 1/2" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 55 Cost Power END Beetle Form, all slots: Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 8 1) Beetle Beatdown: +2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points) 64 2) Beetle Brawn: +52 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (82 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) (added to Secondary Value) 26 3) Beetle Balance: +14 DEX (42 Active Points) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic) (added to Secondary Value) 16 4) Beetle Body: +10 BODY (20 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 16 5) Beetle Bounceback: +10 CON (20 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) -4 6) Beetle Beauty: -10 COM (-5 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 7 7) Beetle Beefy: Damage Resistance (12 PD/5 ED) (9 Active Points) 30 8) Beetle Battleworthy: Armor (15 PD / 10 ED) (38 Active Points) (added to Secondary Value) 17 9) Beetle Bash-proofing: Armor (20 PD / 0 ED) (30 Active Points); Only vs Bashing Damage (Limited Type of Attack; -1/2) (added to Secondary Value) 8 10) Beetle Belaying: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points) 26 11) Beetle Balistics: Flight 5" (Improved Noncombat Movement (x32)), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2) 26 12) Beetle Biochemistry: Spatial Awareness (Increased Arc of Perception: 360-Degree, Tracking), Affected as Smell/Taste (+0) (32 Active Points) 37 13) Beetle Bandaging (Regeneration): Healing 5 BODY (Can Heal Limbs), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (110 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12); -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120).] Powers Cost: 277 Cost Skill 3 Computer Programming 14- 5 Cramming 3 KS: Entymology: Bugs (INT-based) 14- 2 Language: Latin (Basic Conversation; Literacy) [Notes: Learned so that he can understand species classifications!] Skills Cost: 13 Cost Perk 1 Computer Link (Home PC, Broadband) 3 Anonymity (child) Perks Cost: 4 Cost Talent 6 Combat Luck: 3 PD/3 ED [Notes: Beat up on a lot -- learned to roll with the punches] 5 Eidetic Memory [Notes: Brainiac] Talents Cost: 11 Total Character Cost: 360 Val Disadvantages 5 Money: Poor 10 Social Limitation: Secret ID Occasionally (8-), Major 5 Accidental Change: To Bug from Normal when frightened Infrequently (8-), Uncommon 10 Accidental Change: From Bug to Normal when exposed to gaseous pesticides Frequently (11-), Uncommon 10 Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing Common, Moderate 10 Social Limitation: Inept w/ attractive females Frequently (11-), Minor 5 Psychological Limitation: Fear of Spiders Uncommon, Moderate 10 Unluck: +2d6 12 Distinctive Features: Big Beetle-man thing Concealable, Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses, Custom Adder [Notes: OIHID (-1/4)] 24 Susceptibility: Gaseous Pesticides 3d6 damage, per Segment, Uncommon, Custom Adder [Notes: OIHID (-1/4)] Disadvantage Points: 101 Base Points: 250 Experience Required: 9 Total Experience Available: 9 Experience Unspent: 0

Might as well play SAGA Marvel Superheroes instead. Not only are there no points, theres not even any rolling involved.

I havent actually used them in play yet, but I recently did an eyeball comparison of the team to my current PC group, with an eye toward straight up conflict and they measured up as a mixed bag. The current PC group includes: John Wrath, Agent of PRIMUS : the Silver Avenger of MC (in my campaign), a Martial Artist/Light Brick with some gadgets. He has a cyber-eye that gives him Find Weakness 14- and about 50 points in Martial Arts. Has a ton of perks including Federal Police Powers and the requisite Liscence to Kill, and skills as well and of course a PRIMUS Hovercar. Basically a Nick Fury send-up. Rook aka Fortress aka Fort (dont ask): A force-field based character that has some TK-like effects and basically serves as a Speedster/Brick (52" Combat movement bought as Forward-movement only must be in contact with surface Leaping, with Combat Acceleration, and Accurate in a slide-like effect, 55 STR via fully invisible Extra Limbs with 6" of Stretching, a decent FF, 50% Resistant Damage Reduc PD/EE, some Power Def and Mental Def, limited Life Support, and a for-Emergency-Use-Only Force Wall Dome No Range 0 DCV Total Concentration througout). Basically a street-level character, but very powerful. He's generally contemptuous of 'capes' and would rather protect the common people than go after villains. He's much more of a protector than a prosecuter type of character. He's more than happy to just chase a villain off and isnt above live and let live type deals, but also has a dangerous veangeful streak. Kind of has a Daredevil-type personality essentially. The Green Knight: A low level mutant with advanced mental and physical abilities (some low-level mental powers, and some low level phys abilities like Regeneration w/ Lost Limbs, and 6/6 Damage Resistance) who augments his powers with a power armor suit, shield, and a technological mace with a nuero blaster (EGO Attack) built into it, and an advanced Jet Cycle with a on-board computer. His SFX is that the Armor is driven by his advanced mutant nuerological system; basically a normal human would not be able to use most of the abilities to thier fullest capability. He also has a lot of inventor/gadgeteer abilities to back up his power armor schtick. He is big into the valiant knight schtick and plays like a modern day Sir Gawain. Very concerned with the 'honorable' course of action. DEFUNCT (The player of the Green Knight turned out to not be a good fit for the group and was let go. A shame, really, the Green Knight was a well-rounded and excellent addition to the group.) Chitin : a OIHID super brick. A 15 year old science geek, bitten by a chemically altered mutant stag beetle! A few moments of concentration and he grows massively into a hulking man-beetle complete with Exo-skeleton and exponential strength! He can even pop out insectoid wings and take flight (erratically)! He has IIRC 60 STR, but his main power is near-indestructibility to physical damage. He has 30 resistant PD +20 r PD vs Blunt attacks. Sadly, his ED isnt anywhere near as good. He also has clinging and some other small abilities beyond his impressive brickness. In his HERO ID he has trouble speaking intelligibly, so doesnt say much, and hides his real age from the other Heros. He has a very high intelligence, being a major science fair geek in his secret id, and sometimes catches people by suprise with his unbricklike planning. Gravitic : a gravity manipulator, has a lot of movement effecting powers and BODY damage oriented attacks. He has decent but unreliable defences vs physical, but has trouble with energy attacks. He also has several forms of airborn movement himself, including an anti-grav leap, an air-walking ability, and a anti-grav glide. In real life he is a TV and B movie actor in Superhero shows. What he didnt know is that he is the younger half-brother of.....GRAVITAR!!!!!!, his suprise Hunter btw. They have the same father, a globetrotting playboy in his day. Shes obviously much more powerful but once she finds out about her long lost little brother, she will of course want him to join with her and will make a few attempts to turn him before finally giving up and (trying to) killing him. Gravitic isnt too bright and has gotten through life on his good looks and family background. He is a really bad cheesy actor, and his hero persona is very Silver-Age retro-kitch. "Thats right, heroes! I intend to stop the villain with my Gravitic Grounding Ray!". He also thinks his powers stem from an ability to manipulate Graviolis (pronounced like Ravioli with a g in the front). Hype: Speedster/ Light Brick; lots of speed tricks, DEX, SPD, and classic speedster bits. Endorses NAR-COLA ("It lives up to its HYPE, just like me!". He is my PC while Im taking a turn as a player. He effectively replaces ROOK on the active line up as the current GM is ROOKs player. Later, ROOK will return right about the time Hype departs for awhile, or perhaps another GM will run an arc. Agent X: is a mysterious escapee of some kind of super-soldier experiment. The only thing more mysterious than his past is his real identity. A super-skill agent; Scrapper/Infiltrator. The PC group is pretty mobile and has a preponderence of toe-to-toe fighters and no real blaster, and the group is currently 375-400 points so I have to make allowances for the Champions, but even giving them a handicap they measure up poorly. Of them all, Ironclad and Defender were the most comparable to the PC group; Ironclad mostly because of his Find Weakness, which is a nasty piece of work for just about anybody to deal with, and Defender because of his overall flexibility. Witchcraft is too diluted IMO; she cant fend off a group, and none of her powers work fast enough to be a real serious threat; unless the PCs were already locked down, one of them would drop her quick before she became a real threat. Sapphire should be nasty due to the fact that several of the PCs are more vulnerable to energy than physical, and there are no rival dedicated blasters, but she just cant hit often enough and if she gets close enough to hit she'll get knocked out of the sky by any of the PCs, particularly Gravitic. Nighthawk is just a joke; he's too scattered. With 25 points in the right place he would gel into a real threat, but until then he just cant mount an offense. Granted, he would be one of the most fun to play as a PC because he's got the bases covered, but in a toe to toe he's in trouble. By the way, thanx for the write up Marchwarden!

Not to nitpick, but FYI it URL, Universal Resource Locator, not EARL. Some of the reviews of the earlier releases no doubt got lost when the new boards were put up a few months ago.....

Personally, I hated the old Champions Universe (it was indeed a mish-mash IMO as Monolith said) and NEVER used it. Not only was it a complete mess, it was also boring and overly goofy -- again in my opinion. Too many of the characters were just silly, and the ones that werent were mostly generic and uninteresting. I mean, did the world really need Gweenies for example? I'm really loving the new CU however, overall. Its got a good feel to it, and captures a lot of the things I liked about comics when I was growing up. I mean, I havent collected in 10 years give or take, but the new CU material motivated me to go dig up some of my comics and read through them again. Sadly, most of the comics that I really enjoyed in the day seem pretty weak to me a decade later (for example, I used to really like Chris Clairmonte when I was a kid, now his dialogue seems almost painfully bad, his plot lines overly dramatic (and on occasion melodramatic) and his characterizations really heavyhanded -- IMO, YMMV of course). Who cares if it is heavily influenced by someones campaign, so long as the campaign was solid? So much the better then, than some random collection of as-they-thought-of-it material duct taped together, and with a few serial numbers filed off of derivative characters to protect the plaigerist. I like the fact that CU, while nodding its head to some classic staples of the genre, isnt bound by slavish aping of existing characters. Do we need Arachnidman or Mr. Incredibly Bendy in CU? Noooooooooo! Ultimately, if you prefer the old 4th edition era 'Universe', there is absolutely nothing stopping you from using that as is with 5th Edition. If you like elements of new CU, then just incorporate them into your retro-Universe. The differences between 4th and 5th are so niggling mechanically that you can pretty much run the charcaters side by side from both versions, making corrections on the fly if necessary. Very little was changed; some things were reclassified, and quite a bit was added but that doesnt really matter much in the bigger picture to old characters.

In the past, Ive had a variety of 'super metals' in play. I dont remember them all, but some follow: Flexionite: this was actually a class of metals (A,B,C) derived from a real material that is used in real life for avionics and expensive eyeglass frames. Its main advantage was that once manufactured the material effectively has 1 true shape which it will return to. A secondary attribute was a molecular bonding capability; if you put to pieced of Flexionite alongside one another exposure to a different band of radiation would cause the 2 pieces to bond together seamlessly. Type A does not require exposure to a particular band of radiation to return to its natural state, but only forms in cylindrical shapes. Type B requires exposure to a particular band of radiation if it is deformed to return to its original state. Its advantage is that once its shape is frozen it is rigid like other metals, and easier to work with in the production of complex machinery than Type A because it can be made in any shape. Type C is made up of many micro-cylinders of Type A material arrayed together in sheets and bonded. It makes flexi-sheets of metal basically which will allow some moulding (enough to style a car for example, but nothing too minute in detail), and is useful in the creation of deforming-reforming panels and the manufacturing of vehicles. A car made with a Type B frame and a Type C body for example is exceptionally resilient and structural damage is easily repaired by a trained mechanic with Flexionite-moulding equipment. A trained armor smith or manufacturer working with highly specialized (and high-tech) tools can construct and repair items made from Flexionite very quickly, allowing damaged equipment to be returned to the field in like-new condition. Flexionite revolutionized the personal armor industries, the automotive and avionics industry, and a wide assortment of odd products (more as a novelty than anything else, like Flexionite-B Baseball bats & tennis rackets and Flexionite-C Chainlink fences). Rebarium: A titanium/Flexionite-A alloy intended for construction use. Rebarium has a very high tensile strength, but also has a flexion point. Basically, when its tensile strength is exceeded, rather than breaking or permanently bending it will deform to a high degree before permanantly breaking/bending, and after the stress is removed it will return to its original shape. Primarily used for support struts and seismic adjustors, it found a suprisingly lucrative application in the construction of oil platforms and cranes. Ularium: this material served as a common-source rationale for a campaign that I was planning but which never got off the ground back in 1996. A strange material discovered in a single meteorite found embeded on the moon in 1969 by the US government. The material was brought to earth by the astronauts that discovered it and a team of scientists were assembled to analyze it for possible use in the US nuclear program. Even in the present, the scientists that have studied the material are not sure if it is a naturally occuring element not previously discovered or not native to earth or an advanced compound created either artificially or by an alien intelligence. What they do know is that Ularium emits a wide range of energy wavelengths, and is far more radioactive than Uranium or Plutonium. Prolonged exposure to the material results in serious radiation poisoning and a rapid cellular failure for the wide majority of humans and other terrestrial organisms. In 1970 the scientists began testing the properties of the material, and as part of a larger effort they assemled 300+ monkeys of various varieties which were exposed to the material in short bursts over the course of a month. By the end of the month, over 275 monkeys either died or were in the process of dying from the radiation poisoning. However, 19 of the monkeys showed no sign of radiation poisoning and of those 19, 4 of them were begining to demonstrate elevated intelligence and altered behavior. Intrigued by this phenomenom, the scientists got funding for another batch of 300 monkeys, and left the original 19 survivors in with them. After another month the results were similar, with 22 survivors from the new batch, and all 19 from the 1st batch still showing no signs of poisoning or other ill effects. Of the 22 new survivors, 6 were showing signs of elevated intelligence like the original 4 'brainy' monkeys. This elevated intelligence was not drastic, but it was noticible. The surviving 41 monkeys were put in a holding status while the scientists attempted to make sence of thier data. Primatologists were brought in. Many arguments ensued, and further the team working on this aspect of the project encountered difficulties getting funding over the more 'practical application' teams. While this was happening, several of the monkeys formed mating pairs and after half a year had passed several new little monkeys had been born. The primatoligists noticed a few things almost immediately: the new baby monkeys were not like thier parents in all respects. They had less hair, larger cranial capacity, smaller teeth, straighter spines, and more human-like attributes. They seemed to have evolved in 1 generation! The potential of this new discovery was obvious, but problematic. Human trials were desired, but with the death ratio suggested by the monkey trials not viable in the current iteration. However, one scientist, Dr. Tyler Sean Greene, recommended a diffusion/dispersion approach. His recommendation was to expose more people to minute quantities of the material. By expanding the test base, the decrease in the amount of the material to which the subjects are exposed would balance out. This drew some attention, and soon the entire project was bundled up, reclassified, and moved to a new location and formed into a group called Directorate for the Advancement of Radioactive Waste Identification and Neutralization (DARWIN), with a cover mission of environmental correction. The group was restructed into the EPA in 1983, but in reality the true purpose of the branch has always been under the control and cognizance of the NSA. Greene's plan was put into action in 1972 by piggy backing on an ongoing program run by the CIA for a variety of purposes at the time, using college student 'volunteers' who would agree to just about anything for some much needed money. The subjects were told they were helping to develop a cure for the common cold, and a suitably convincing charade was maintained.The project was codenamed Protocol Pygore-5 and was conducted nationwide for a period of 6 years, exposing over 12000 subjects for the alloted 6 months each. 87 subjects died from effects believed to be caused by the material, and a handful of others died in more mundane fashions such as car accidents. Of the survivors many were mated pairs that started the treatments together, and others met during their time in the program and formed subsequent relationships; 347 pairs of subjects had relationships that resulted in the birth of at least one child between 1972 and 1982. DARWIN maintained casual surveillance of all its test subjects, paying close attention to any children resulting from a subject. This children typically displayed abnormal precociousness and were well above average in intelligence and often athletic capability as well. Meanwhile they continued thier monkey experiments, and explored other uses for Ularium. The monkey experiments saw the occurance of a small population of advanced primates. Continued exposure to the material in succeeding generations revealed that the mutated children were significantly more resilient to the harmful effects but also the mutagenic effects. Another interesting fact came to light; some of the monkey-men exhibited psychic capabilities, including psychokinesis, pyrokinesis, and psychic blasts. In 1996 one of the 4th generation monkeys with human level intelligence, the ability to speak English and a limited precognitive ability, Maku, managed to break himself and 4 cage-mates out of the holding facility in western Pennsylvania where they were held. He managed to lead his little band into Canada, where eventually they came to the awareness of the Canadian government and sought asylum. The Canadian government started investigating the situation covertly. Meanwhile, several of the children of the earlier human test subjects were now in their teens and in some cases were starting to show signs of psychic capabilities themselves. DARWIN was directed to collect these children for closer examination.....[cue campaign]... Plaststeel: basic plastic thats as hard as steel material but lightweight and mass produced; vulnerable to heat/lasers but very resilient to cold and impact. Blasteel: a more advanced version of Plaststeel, it is almost indestructible but also very difficult to work with; it must be poured into moulds and shaped prior to a catalyzation process. There were others, but this is what I remember off hand....

Re: Great! np EDIT Here is a link to the new Conversion docs: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/conversion3e.shtml Should still be usable for most purposes, although thier power level will vary based on the point scale you went with.

ignore--double post

agreed.

I beg to differ; Im not making a big deal out of something that is not important; I am illustrating a detail which I personally dont like because I feel that it imposes to many assumptions that I dont agree with or dont want to deal with in my campaign. It may not be important to you, but you are not the arbiter of importance (nor am I or anyone else). If you find it to be of no consequence then please feel free to disregard my remarks on the subject rather than trying to convince me that my opinion is intrinsically wrong because it differs from your own. I too can think of many different circumstances wherein the chips could be part of some plot or another. Thats not the issue. The issue is I personally dont think the potential story hooks intrinsic to the concept is worth the annoyance of dealing with the logistics that back it up. If you do, c'est la vie. Personally, Im interested in other peoples takes on the subject and will consider all such ideas forwarded before I arrive at a final decision on whether or not to include them in my campaign. If I did include them however, my first impulse would be to introduce them as a new technology rather than one that is in place, and see how the PCs react to it. It would be, in my opinion in real life, a violaion of civil rights and personal freedom, but any given character of mine if I were a player might feel differently. As the GM I think it might be a useful character-definer to see where individual heros lie on axis of personal freedom and privacy versus public safety. Afterall many Supers wear masks and maintain Secret IDs; they are private people and would naturally oppose anything which directly infringed on thier privacy. Alternately I might do the opposite, have a big civil rights suit raging in the background story, eventually touching off demonstration, which the police might react to with a tinge too much force causing a riot etc etc, unless of course the heroes intervene. Hey, thanx for the automatic fault finding. I have concerns about the iconic characters being homebased in the same city as my PCs and at the same relative point level and ding ding ding ding your Sense Fault, targeting ability goes off. Obviously that cant be a valid concern; I must be a rotten GM, or have rotten players, or both. For starters, the comic book genre is too broad and implemented too differently by different talents and publishing houses to be about any one thing. Its a common urge to be #1 for a lot of human beings, and to gain recognition and it extends to roleplaying as well. If you drop a party of PCs played by real people into a city with a well-entrenched group of popular 'official' superheroes who are as powerful or slightly less powerful than the PCs, and furthermore are the iconic characters of the very game, you are going to have to deal with something at some point. There is no telling what that something or somethings might be because players are too random and unpredictible to get a 100% bead on them at all times, but you can be safe in the estimate that it will play a roll in the campaign and can either anticipate it and arrive at an operating methodology to handle it before hand or deal with it when it comes up. Me, Im an anticipator. I cant predict exactly what will come of it, but I know that if I present that situation as given that there will be ramifications. It doesnt matter whether the PCs get along with the Champions or not, are friendly rivals or not, are antagonistic or not. What matters is that it is an element that may have a significant effect on my campaign unless compensated for. Lets say they get buddy buddy with the Champs. Everyone is hunky-dory; all the heroes have cookouts and play horseshoes. When the PCs get in trouble and need help, who are they going to call? Why, their peers of course, the Champions! Vice versa, when the Champs bite off more than they can chew.....hey PCs, help us out! Eventually, since they are all such good buddies, some bright player will say 'Hey! why dont we merge with the Champions and pool our resources! Or perhaps vice versa the Champs invite the PCs to join thier organization. Or perhaps not, but the PCs need to keep up with the Jonses. The Champs have a tricked out base in the city, if they dont get one too (or one just as good) then they must not be as good as the Champs. Does the rest of the city see them as second-raters? Are they portrayed a benchwarmers, or worse wannabees? What effect does that have on the morale of the party? On the other hand, if they pull off daring deeds, do they gain greater recognition than the Champs, or are the Champs doing daring deeds of their own, and if so why didnt the PCs get a crack at them 1st? Can they never truly excel, or do they eventually exceed the Champions in capability and accomplisments? Do they become hailed as the true heroes of the city, or do they find themselves in the position of constantly being watched by the media and therefore the public for any sign that they arent really as heroic as the beloved Champs? Etc etc etc etc. Good or bad, all the various permutations of interaction with the Champs is an element of the campaign and will dictate to some extent how the storyline flows. It will have a logical overun into the actual story that I want to tell which, to maintain versimilitude, must be accounted for putting restrictions upon my freedom as the GM. It also requires me to keep the Champs up to date to maintain the desired level of equitude between the PCs and the Iconics. A lot of those problems go away if the Iconics are a) in another city or way out of the PCs league (more or less points depending on starting points level) To an extent yes, but to another extent the constraints of the game world also determine that as well. With 1000+ point villains running around, the various restrictions of being unliscenced superheroes, dealing with UNTIL and foreign governments, 350 point characters are less likely to be believably viable as globetrotting heroes IMO. Also, I really want to explore the city based heroing schtick first and get the PCs used to thier environment rather than skip around the cosmos immediately. After theyve got some salt on em as a team, then its time to open up the horizon and step it out to parts beyond. Again, thats my desired approach in this campaign. My only point on the matter was that your case that a bunch of super teams existed side by side superheroing in NYC in the Marvel Universe was flawed because none of those teams worked solely out of NYC or even spent 50% of thier time in that city. The New Warriors came closest to being a 'NYC' team, and they were easily the weakest of the teams you listed lacking the long range transport of the bigger/older teams. Also, the X-teams were not based out of NYC, with the exception of X-Factor. They were based out of upstate NY and only ventured into the city on occasion; they spent most of thier time wandering around the globe and beyond, including the New Mutants who were only marginally a 'superteam' as such. {looks around} Hmm.....when did I make the statement that I assumed that 350 point characters are necessarily newbies? Quite the opposite I assure you. I assume the same things that you do about 350 point characters. They may be crusty, learning, or wet behind the ears as befits the character concept; its just a yardstick of current effectiveness and thats all. Again, the New Mutants were in upstate New York, and further to the best of my knowledge had disbanded prior to the New Warriors being chartered in order to form X-Force (or very soon thereafter). I vaguely recall an episode where elements of X-Force teamed up with the New Warriors, I believe in an Annual. Regardless, they didnt coexist in the same city. The Avengers and the New Warriors did however, and there was quite a bit of amusing byplay therein. Marvel Boy for example was recruited into the New Warriors after he failed to gain membership with the Avengers because he was too green. Rage was an honorary Avenger in training until he helped the Warriors sneak into the Avengers mansion and steal a quin-jet somewhere around issue 24 or 5. There was an instance where the Warriors were involved in something and the Avengers stepped in at the end and basically got all the media coverage/glory causing aggravation among the Warriors. It was always very clear cut, the senior group was way out of the Warriors league. The Warriors also interacted with another NY group to some extent: Power Pack. For awhile the oldest Powers kid took all the other kids abilities and called himself Power Pax so he could run around with the warriors. The Warriors also interacted with the Fantastic Four on occasion, Ben Grimm is an old friend of Vance Astrovik aka Marvel Boy from thier time on the powered wrestling circuit together, and IIRC Rich Rider aka Nova had some history with FF as well. Again, the FF was usually involved in much bigger concerns and IIRC at the time was going through fluctuating memberships as well. This is true. However, my concern isnt having another team in the city, its having the ICONIC team in the same city at the same points level as the PCs. I am concerned about what treatment I want to give them as central characters to the default storyline and how much of an element I want them to be in my campaign. I would care less about it if the Sentinels or one of the other 'mentioned' groups was in the city; its the fact that it is The {pronounce THEE -- cue the music} CHAMPIONS!!!!! {crescendo music and cut} which concerns me not the fact that its a another team. YMMV, etc etc.....

OK, here is the preliminary pass at a D&D 3e to 5th Ed HEROs conversion. This is slanted towards high fantasy (particularly at the higher end), as appropriate to the D&D Millieu. YMMV. Keep in mind this is an 'Alpha' version, untested and unpolished. Starting off, XP to Points There is one major factor which complicates doing a level to point conversion in 3e; namely the level stacking rules. Not all levels in D&D 3e are created equal, and there is no rule that consistently indicates at a global level which levels for a particular class are also-rans and which ones indicate measurable gains. Many levels in many classes are pass-thrus; you have to take them to get to better abilities (class-features) only available at the higher levels. In HEROs this erratically results in some 'levels'' costing more in points than others depending on the classes in question, which makes a fixed ratio difficult to arrive at. Part of this problem is the additional confusion introduced into a conversion effort by the multiclassing rules. A 3rd level character may have 1, 2, or 3 different classes. Futher most D&D 3e classes give thier biggest 'hit' at 1st level, granting the basic framework features of the class and usually at least one special ability which might be quite expensive to replicate in HEROs but which in D&D are not differentiated from a character that took 3 levels in the same class. Thus the Fighter 1/Sorceror 1/Ranger 1 will probably point out much higher than the Fighter 3 or the Sorceror 3 or (almost certainly) the Ranger 3. In D&D this is theoretically balanced as an opportunity cost at later levels, offering the multiclasser early flexibility and scope but at the cost of the pure power a focused single-class character can hope to wield at higher level. The dedication shown by single-classing pays off later, assuming all classes are equal (sic-which we all know they arent really, but as a logical exercise indulge me ). Prestige classes muddy this up even further. {BTW: Dont get me wrong, IMO the new multiclassing rules were one of the best things in 3e as far as Im concerned, but they do make conversion more difficult. } Also, the way the D&D 3e XP methodology is set up, characters tend to level FAST at the begining, and start slowing down around 5th or 6th level whereas in a point based system like HEROs growth tends to be slow and gradual but constant. However, regardless of how fast or slow characters tend to level in D&D 3e relevant to thier current level in play, theoretically it supposedly takes 13.3 equal CR encounters to 'Level up'. Of course, 1 suicidal encounter significantly above the parties CR can see all the survivors level (and then some) in a single encounter and also, the definition of an encounter is a tad fuzzy (one DMs encounter is another DMs routine interaction) but for our purposes we will take the "13.3 Equal Encounters as Part of a Party of 4 Equal PCs" comcept as a constant measure of advancement in D&D 3e and try to find a parrallel in HEROs. Following that logic, a 20th level character has seen approximately 250 equal challenge encounters as part of a party of 4 equal level PCs. So, if you assume a constant 13.3 encounters per level-up across all levels, and further assume an average of 3.3 equal encounters per 6 hours of play (arbitrarily; works out to a level every 4 6-hour sessions on average, and most sessions go 6 to 8 hours IME, resulting in a level every 3 or 4 weeks of play on average), and you also assume that most HEROs sessions will see a character get 3 experience points on average, you can basically say 1 encounter = 1 HEROs xp. Thus there is a solid correlation between Encounters and HEROs character points. You might recall the 250 encounters measure mentioned above for a 20th level character. Well, 250 encounters = 250 points. 250 is a nice HERO-ish number, but 13.3 isnt. The HERO System likes increments of 5 best. Applying that, If we go with a series of 15 even /10 odd and start 1st level off at +10 experience points on top of whatever we decide is the starting point total, that works out to 250 points in the HERO System. So all thats left is to determine a starting point level of our HEROs characters and then simply add 250 to the starting points to determine what a 20th level character should be and fill in the gaps between. 1st level D&D 3e characters tend to be a tad squishy, but taking a 1st level commoner as the base they are definitely beyond the bounds of the average man. I personally like 125 as a starting point as it is what I have used in the past and it usually gives enough points to round out a capable heroic character but not so many that said character is ready to charge out into the world without a care. Further, since D&D is a Disadvantage-less system, and most characters coming in from D&D arent going to have much in-place to draw on aside from personality and background quirks to define Disadvantages in HEROs, I have found it convenient in the past to go with a lower than normal Disadvantage to base point ratio in the interests of expediency (but see below). Thus, I favor 75 Base points + 50 max Disadvantages to total up to 125. Some players, whether vets to the HERO System, or more character oriented than most D&Ders, want to benefit from the richer character development offered by HEROs and want to take a full load of Disadvantages. Also, its handy to have a higher ceiling when building package deals. Therefore players can take up to a maximum of another 25 points in disadvantages if they are in Pacakage Deals for upto another 25 additional points at 1st level. So if a character starts at 75 base, takes 50 Disadvantage points, and we add the +10 starting Experience to keep our 10/15 progression even that character will be 135 points. However, a starting character might range from 85 to 160 pts total depending on how Disadvantaged they are, which is a wide range but encourages players to use the Disadvantage system (an alien concept to many players if you are recruiting them from D&D 3e) and the use of package deals (which translates into campaign buy in typically). Finally, as a character advances in D&D 3e he is more likely to pick up multiclass levels, including prestige classes, and to join organizations/groups (which also is often expressed as a prestige or class combo), so we need some wiggle room to make this work. Most classes to include prestige classes will be organized into package deals any way for ease of use and conformity to some common theme. So, I suggest we allow additional optional Disadvantage points to be taken throughout character progression at stepped increments to facilitate switching into new 'prestige class' equivalents. Nominally, I think at levels 4,8,12,16 and 20 a character may take up to 25 more points of Disadvantages for a yield in a like number of character points as long as those Disadvantages are taken as part of a Package Deal. Thus at 20th level, a character which has taken all possible Disadvantages will be a 525 point character, whereas one who has taken the assumed minimum of 50 points of Disadvantages will be 375. To my mind this accurately captures the disparity in character effectiveness that can occur in D&D 3e depending on the leveling decisions made by thier players, even at the same exact levels. YMMV of course. Without further ado, here is the Alpha Level to Points chart. Keep in mind that the idea isnt to strait jacket HEROs characters by imposing a level structure, but rather to provide a consistent measuring stick and to facilitate direct coversions from D&D 3e. Level D&D Xp (1000s) HEROs Points Optional Package Deal Disadvantages 1 0 135* +25 2 1 150 0 3 3 160 0 4 6 175 +25 5 10 185 0 6 15 200 0 7 21 210 0 8 28 225 +25 9 36 235 0 10 45 250 0 11 55 260 0 12 66 275 +25 13 78 285 0 14 91 300 0 15 105 310 0 16 120 325 +25 17 136 335 0 18 153 350 0 19 171 360 0 20 190 375 +25 *75 Base + 50 Disadvantages + 10 ExperienceStep = +15 even/ +10 odd, +25 Optional Disadvantages every 4 levels OK, that was a lot of typing. More later, must go soak fingers in Palmolive

Re: Monolith: Yes, Im sure there are chippers that provide countermeasures, however much like satellite and cell phone chippers this is not a static affair. It’s a constant back and forth as authorities counter the countermeasures and vice versa, and back and forth. Chippers in real life get away with it because its a peripheral crime in the commercial sector that doesn’t see much enforcement, but in MC anti-chipping a car is much more of a municipal infringement and you can rest assured that cops will take more stringent measures to stop it. Its not insurmountable, its just another level of complexity that needs to be considered. How did they villains make their get away? In their vehicle? Why couldn’t the authorities shut it down remotely? Because it was anti-chipped? OK, lets follow that lead -- where did they get the anti-chip? Lets track that down to a location and a person. Start nosing around the black chipmarket. Maybe trace it down to a seller. Do we prosecute all of these black marketeers as we go or do we stay focused on the real culprits and leave them to the tender mercy of the cops, or not report them at all? OK, assuming we collar the right guy, get him to talk. Where did he sell the chips at? Is it a place the villains are likely to return? Did he hear anything pertinent said in passing? Any other useful info? Assuming he did, follow up on that. Assuming he didn’t, what now? Etc etc etc.... It’s the sort of niggling detail that can pull a session off course. Now, if the intention is to provide an investigative style adventure then that’s all for the better, but if the intention was to have resolved-by-superhuman-capability style then you've failed at that because the PCs spend the session flailing around doing mundane police work. Further, if you didn’t see it coming and aren’t good at on-the-fly GMing, then you may have stepped all over it in your attempts to lay the rail in front of the train as the PC-express steams forward. Of course, once it is established that, yeah yeah the bad guys can get their hands on blackchipped cars and its not worth pursuing because its a cold trail, then no big deal except that it begs the question why have the chips involved at all. They only restrict law-abiding citizens. Its like gun control; criminals can still get their hands on guns and restricting them only creates a market for illegal weapons that sell at a premium thus enriching/empowering the criminals selling them so that they can commit bigger crimes or establish themselves. Money can’t buy Justice, but it can buy an acquittal. This introduces a frustration point for the PCs and becomes a source of bitter humor. Why cant the cops stop Rico the Illegal Street Racer and his pink-slip posse? Duh, because they blackchip their cars and the cops aren’t equipped to handle high-speed pursuit because they are 'a thing of the past'. Enter the PCs! Woohoo! The superheroes can help the community out by putting a stop to adolescent thrill seekers with tricked out rice burners! No time for the likes of Grond, we have to stop teenies with too much time and money on their hands from ruining their lives by wrapping a car around a center divider at 100 mph! How exciting! Heroic, certainly; Superheroic.....maybe once, as a lead up to something more epic or as a 'character piece' showcasing a particular hero staying in touch with his roots and maintaining his 'street cred'. Also, I just can’t believe that the American citizens of Detroit would not strenuously object to such an invasion of their privacy. Who really wants Big Brother to know everywhere they have driven for up to the last 10 years? Also, are the chip records admissible as evidence in court? I.e. can they be used to prove that a person was in an area at a certain time in say a robbery or murder investigation/trial? Habeas Chipus? Divorce proceedings? "We can place you outside the apartment of your mistress every Wednesday night for the last 6 months Mr. Williams. You might as well just sign the settlement and save yourself the embarrassment." Its just one of those details that, IMO, raises more issues than it’s worth. RE: Iconics: As far as running iconics, it depends on the game. In a full-blown supers game, its very tempting to use them because they are so intertwined with the story line usually. Further, supers are like Movie Stars in their high-profile exposure. They are part of the pop-culture of their setting. For example, if you don’t use the Champions at all, who takes Sapphires place? What about all the references to Witchcraft in the Mystic World sections? Do Harmon Industries go away? The more reclusive/odd ball heroes (like the other two Champions) are easier to drop of course but not completely without impact. RE: Multiple teams in one city; NY/Manhattan: Yes and no. All of the teams you cite were not local heroes; they were all regional, global, or even multi-dimensional. They hung their hats in NYC, but they were actively superheroing all over the place. I don’t get the feeling that the Champions are quite as globetrotting. Granted, they've got the quin-jet wannabe, but still....At 350 points, the Champs would also have trouble going up against any of the listed teams except maybe the New Warriors (and even then, Firestar, Nova and Namorita were pretty powerful, Speedball was a massive loose cannon, Justice developed into a very durable TKer, and Rage was much more of a brick than Ironclad; Nightthrasher was questionable but the rest of the regulars were pretty hard core. Ok, maybe if you selected Nightthrasher, Turbo, early Marvel Boy vice Justice, Speedball before he learned a little control, and Hindsight Lad as the representative line up for the New Warriors, the Champions would win the day. I know my players, and if the Champions are in the same town as them they are not going to be content to peacefully coexist. They will expect and attempt to engage in some level of interaction with them, whether friendly or not. I get the feeling that they would take it amiss if I removed the group entirely, as they in general like the iconics and subconsciously want something to serve as a yardstick in game, Im sure. Its not a major issue, but it is something that requires some thought. Granted, it’s easy enough for me to say that the Champs are in some other city like NYC or Chicago, or even Philly. All are close enough geographically that if interaction is desired, it is feasible. What Ill prolly do though it add 100 to 150 points to the Champs and have them be 'the big leaguers', often gone fighting higher scale evils. They may even enter into a patronage of the PCs, glad to have someone they can trust to 'hold down the fort' as it were. This also gives the PCs something to aspire to 'one day, maybe Ill be good enough for the Champions!' or to resent 'we do all the grunt work, they swoop in at the last minute and get all the glory'.

Wow. I picked up MC on the way home from work yesterday and read it straight thru to the end (finishing up at 3am {yawns, rubs eyes, gropes for coffee}). All in all, a very satisfying read. Not so dense as to be a) imposing or restrictive, but detailed enough to get the creative juices flowing and offer a solid framework for adventure. I'd give it a 4.5 of 5 overall. I particularly liked all the little in jokes, particularly the send up to Seeker (the hackneyed background crack left me chuckling), and then flipping a few more pages and running across the cover illo of Seeker getting choked out was really amusing, although I think it would have been funnier if it was run in-line with the text mentioning him instead of separated. There are only a few grouses, and they are mostly of a conceptual nature. The 1 thing that really bothers me about MC is that the city itself is so utopian. There just doesn’t seem to be much room for criminal activities. With the chipped cars making it impossible to get around by car in the pursuit of unlawful ends, the access to the city so heavily controlled, and the preponderance of social factors discouraging crime (such as the density of the superhuman population, upscale neighborhoods, and a well equipped police force) it seems to rule out a lot of story angles, relegating quite a bit of action to the suburbs and surrounding municipalities rather than Millennium City itself. Basically, MC is a modern day fortress. Insidious plots are more likely than direct confrontation in the city itself unless the antagonist is grossly powerful. This is friendly to the criminal organizations such as PSI and VIPER, but less friendly to the average super villain. The second thing that Im not crazy about is that the iconic supers of the Champions Universe are in Millennium City, and more importantly are 350 point characters give or take. What does that mean to my PC group if I want to base the story in MC? Are the Champions still around? Does the city need 2 similarly sized and powered groups? How does that affect the status quo since the Champs are pretty embedded in the city infrastructure? Are they rivals, in which case how to get over the fact that Defender and Witchcraft particularly are such straight arrows (I mean, Defender is so true-blue and even handed that to be a serious actual rival (as opposed to a friendly rivalry) the PCs would have to be at least slightly flawed in their heroism)? Do they not exist at all, leaving a vacuum for the PCs to fill? Something in between? I.e., did they exist but disbanded or died 2 years ago? Disappeared mysteriously (and thus may return in the future)? If the Champs were 500+ pointer Avenger-level powerhouses they might conceivably coexist with the PCs in the same city, since they would a) be more wide ranging (perhaps even global) in their activities, leaving the day to day local hero-ing to the bush-leaguers (350 pointer PCs), or concerned with bigger threats. However, all of the possible solutions aside from direct coexistence require a departure from the cannon of the new CU. I don’t have any issues with this myself, but altering such a core element of the cannon can have a lot of consequences; it makes it a chore to censor new material to retcon/omit their presence, and more significantly places restrictions on shared GM's --other GMs would have to a) be informed of cannon alterations and abide by them and thus restrict their own storytelling options or ignore them invalidating yours. In short, I wish that the iconics had been handled a little differently. However, those two gripes aside, its a fabulous product and lives up to the new standard that the DOJ has brought to the game. Those guys go to 11, no question.

I voted yesterday, and will inform my players this Saturday when I see them next of the effort and see if they are willing to vote as well. However, I must admit that Im a little non-plussed by the whole idea. Ive never heard of a yearly award that is a combination of popular and peer votes. Ive always thought that HERO Games is pretty widely known, as CHAMPIONS if nothing else. Most players that Ive talked to have at least heard of it, even if they havent heard anything definitive about it.

I did a 2nd edition AD&D to 4th edition HEROs conversion several years ago that saw a lot of play. Its at (EDIT: ) http://www.FantasyHERO.com I have taken a few passes at a 3e D&D to 5th HEROs, but nothing concrete as of yet. Recently I got to thinking about it again. The only real hold up is that the level structure of 3e D&D got flatened so that all classes have the same advancement per experience, which pretty much scraps my old conversion which was based on an AD&D Exp to HEROs points comparison. This enabled the Magic system to work, because higher level Mages had more XP than thier equal level brethren. This I was able to have everyone start off at the same baseline (125 pts IIRC) and then scale accordingly. Now that a 15th level spellcaster has the same amount of Exp as a 15th level warrior, it becomes harder to balance the overhead of a spellcasting framework. I have come up with a rough draft Active Points per spell level structure to be fitted into a VPP, but have not had the opportunity to flesh it out or test it. There are also some incongruities in 3e D&D that when brought forward into HEROs costs a lot of points. The biggest offender I stumbled across was the Leadership feat. Characters with a high Cha and/or contributing factors can have a Cohort that is nearly as good as themselves. In the HERO System, buying a Follower that is only slightly less powerful than oneself is not inexpensive. Further, Leadership also provides a fair number of chumps as well. That one feat takes a ton of points to approximate in HEROs, but another feat like Weapon Focus is literally a direct map to a 2 pt +1 OCV with Weapon X CSL in HEROs. Also, Leadership can be taken multiple times. I intend to run a HEROs based D&D esque game soon and need to stop procrastinating and get something done...

I advance my villains as well, but I dont do it after a game session, I do it before the next session they appear in. More flexible and tailored that way.

Doug, why do you not think it would warrant a FOCI? Its been a fairly accepted practice of defining a FOCI as 'any mundane item of a type', often called a focus or object of opportunity. I can recall seeing this practice in play as far back as 12 years ago. In FREd its detailed on pg 188 at the top of column 2. Granted, FREd directs one to use Inaccessible vice Accessible to reflect the difficulty of effectively stripping the user the FOCI, but Monolith would be well within his rights to override this detail if he wished (the example refers to a more vague class of objects than a 'Bow', which is fairly specific). Also, if he did take Any Bow as an OIF and then further specified 'Any Bow and any Arrows' as applies the Multiple Focus rules, he would have a pretty strong case for downgrading the arrangement to an OAF when taken as a whole. As far as the flexibility of the Naked Power Advantage, it is certainly pretty strong. Its primary purpose is to add the very flexibility in character design that you note. Should it be watched? Most definitely. Should its cost be changed? Hmm....If you really wanted to assess a premium; i.e. make it cost more to balance its flex, I would suggest adding either a flat +1/4 to the multiplier of the Advantage (ie NPA Autofire x5 would be +3/4, etc) or if thats not enough for you then perhaps double the advantage which would discourage bigger Advantages from being taken 'naked'.