DreadDomain

If there is only one thing I'd like to see for Strike Force, is better character sheets (and by that I mean character write-ups format not the blank character sheet at the end of the book). The character sheets we have seen in both Complete feel way to 80's with the gray/white lines and the layout of the character sheets in Extreme Earth is just messy. I really prefered the clean layout used in 6E1/6E2. I would also like to see the characteristics laid out in smaller "blocks". Seeing a long list of characteristics from STR to Swimming just make HERO looks complicated. I'd rather see a block for the six primaries, a block for combat characteristics, a block for vital attributes, a block for movement and a block for perception. It would make the write-ups look more organised IMHO.

Fantasy Hero is excellent and much better especially for someone who owns 6E. No contest there. For someone starting from scratch, I would almost recommend Narosia over Fantasy Hero Complete. FHC leaves me relatively cold. I know it tries to be a generic fantasy game but it feels more like a generic game with a fantasy label slapped on it. Even if I do not necessarily agree with all the decision, at least Narosia uses the HERO System to create a fantasy game.

The only stretch goals I really care about are more content and better production value. This book seems very big as it is so I'd like to see: More art Better art Better cover Better layout Color Of course I have no clue who is lined up for art, cover and layout so it might already be top notch.

I agree "unified" doesn't seem to fit the concept behind Spider-Man powers.

Two things I haven't explicitly said. Yes, with increased DEX I was aiming at higher Acrobatics and Breakfall (which may or may not jive with your other builds). Second, I am still unconvinced DEX is worth 2pts. But that is beside the point :-)

You are quite right that a build should not be done in isolation but relative to others. I guess conceptually I see rookie Flash as the fastest (SPD 6 with stuff like autofire and CE), followed by Superman (SPD 5 with stuff like autofire and CE), Spider-man (SPD 5 but without any tricks) and Batman (SPD 4). IMHO, increase DEX is more to support the concept that I have of Spidey (Agile, fast, hard to hit) than for the mechanical effect. I see him a bit more dextrous but not as tough (CON) or enduring (END and or reduced END on STR). And yes I think Spidey is more agile than Flash. I will have to take a look at your rookie Superman. I don't think "modern" Supe ever was a 400pt character even at rookie level (unless it is pre-Supe teenager Clark). Anyway, for the sake of clarity, I like your build. If the only thing we can debate is a few points of DEX, STR and +1 of SPD or not, I guess you must be pretty close to the concept. What do you think about Ambidexterity? I don't really see that as something Worth paying for in a Champions game (again it dépends what you have done with your other builds). Oh, don't get me wrong, it is not that I don't like the format, it's that showing that format on RPG.net only reinforce the perception that HERO is overly complex. The presentation of your build on this thread is a lot "friendlier"!

<Sigh> you're right...

Personally, instead of Action Hero Complete and Pulp Hero Complete (boring), I' d go for the legacy and call them Danger International and Justice Inc. As for Dark Champions, I have mixed feelings. First, the name is great. Second, the vigilante genre should be covered somewhere. I assume the hardcore, gun-totting, superheroic genre could be covered in Danger International. I guess Champions: the Animated Series could cover the more simple genre of superheroes. I would see this book (hopefully complete) almost as a Champions Lite. Just a thought.

Hyper-Man, I like your 400 pts starting versions. I saw on rpg.net that you linked Spidey, Batman and Green Lantern but to be honest, the format you use on herocentral is... scary. It looks a lot more complicated than it should. Anyway, for a starting version of Spider-Man, I'd like to see SPD 5 and maybe a higher DEX. To acheive this while staying within budget, I'd consider: - decreasing STR to 40 (5 pts). He can get stronger later - dropping one maneuver (martial strike?) (4 pts). He can get more experienced at fighting later. - drop ambidexterity. Off-hand penalties are easily ignored in Champions or not often enforced (3 pts) - decreasing CON to 18 (2 pts) With this you could raise SPD to 5 and DEX to 25. To bring DEX to 28, you'd need to scramble 6 more points out of EGO, REC, END, STUN. in any case, great build.

Good show! This makes me back the KS! Unfortunately, it's going to be PDF only for me this time as in the coming months I might move from Canada to Australia. I don't know where I will be when so it makes shipping a bit difficult to sort out EDIT : Backed at the "FIST INVESTIGATOR" level.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product I think it is a huge advantage for established HERO gamers first and foremost. However huge it is, it has been out there for decades now and the system is still very much on the fringe. What I suggest here is that this book should try to sell a fantasy rpg to non HERO gamers by using the HERO engine already tuned to the genre. Give them customization power with templates and freedom of choice and make sure to hide what would be seen as complexity. I guess a spell written with (-¼) and (+¾) is ugly and the power build system is complex to a non HERO adept. Point out in the book that the complete builds are available in the PDF appendix and make sure to write in said appendix that these builds were made with the power system found in Champions Complete. This is assuming that there won't be enough space in the printed book to put the whole system while remaining focused on providing a fantasy rpg. The idea here is to try to reach out in a different way instead of using yet again the same approach since HERO 4th. I won't pretend my idea is brilliant, only that it is different than the actual recipe. Sure but this is the expectation of an established HERO gamer. A gamer coming from most of the other fantasy rpg would not see that as a constraint I guess. You nail it on the head here. If the power system could be included in the GM section, in a very summarized way, that would be great! My first guess here is that it would be difficult to cram all the above in 240pp. My second guess is that what we HERO gamers perceived as a huge advantage will probably be perceived by first time buyer as extra complexity. My third guess is that said first time buyer would rather see extra fantasy focused content (setting info, creatures, an adventure) than a codified system to let him build advanced magic. Playing the game he might remain a Dungeon HERO RPG gamer only or, grabbing Fantasy HERO, Grimoire, Bestiary, Martial Art, Equipement Guide and/or Champions Complete, he might mutate into an established HERO gamer.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product Yes, this also.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product Agreed. By "newcomer", I mean new to HERO but I have no issue with your suggestion. Sure as long as it feel like a normal flow for a fantasy RPG instead of a generic rule book with some fantasy rules and genre information slapped at the end. I think that formula works for Champions but not for Fantasy. I somewhat agree altought, I'd rather have not useful stats left out instead of keeping them for the sake of keeping them. The most obvious are OMCV and DMCV as they are not even that super useful (as primary stat) in Champions. Same with out of genre skills obviously. As for renaming, I'd also keep that to a minimum but OCV and DCV could be renamed Fighting and Defending just to make them more in genre. That would be as far as I would go personally and keep the rest as is. No argument there! If there is room for 40, it's even better! True but even without the power-build system, HERO is nonetheless highly flexible compared to many other rpg.

Re: Looking For Input On Potential New Fantasy Product I come rather late to the party so apologies if I am only rehashing ideas already put forward (or already rejected). Personally I'd go for a stand alone fantasy book instead of a companion adapting a superhero game to fantasy. I'd just like to point out that a stand alone fantasy game is very different than a stand alone superhero game. Keeping in mind we would like newcomers to buy the book, I would avoid calling the book "Something Complete" (very uninspiring) or "Something Champions" (it screams super fantasy too much). A title along the line of "Fantasy Hero RPG" or "Dungeon Hero RPG" are both clear and classic imho. As for content, I would not follow the flow of Champions Complete and I'd rather look at classic fantasy rpgs, D&D, RuneQuest, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, etc. and would follow a similar setup. Again the idea is to cater for what a newcomer would expect from a fantasy game. A few examples: character creation follows a progression from races to cultures/environment to professions (expectation of picking and choosing classes/templates to create the character). For each category, choose the most classic templates plus one a bit more special. For instance, races would include elves, dwarves, humans, orcs and another more exotic (plenty to choose from in FH). Each races, cultures/environement and professions should be described and accompanied by a picture (again, plenty to choose from in FH and others). Abilities in templates should be described here in plain English instead of HERO speak (it could be in the PDF appendix though). following sections describe characteristics, skills, talents and perks and magic. Not much to say about characteristics except maybe that you may want to consider a bit of toolkitting. Maybe you want to omit some characteristics (SPD, END, OMCV, DMCV could be candidates), maybe you want to reintroduce figured stats and adjust costs, maybe you want to rename some characteristics more in genre (for example OCV could become Fighting and DCV could become Defending). Note that I'm not advocating for or against any of this. I'm just saying it is a could time for you guys to ponder how you want to showcase the toolkitting power of the system with rules tailored to the genre and not the other say around. It is probably what newcomers would expect. Skills should be tailored to the genre by omitting some of them and adding others (armorsmith). The languages chart could be generic or align on a setting like the Turakian Age. Renaming some skills would probably be needed as well. Talents from Fantasy Hero would be in that section but again in plain English only (HERO speak in the appendix). The idea here is to hide what would be perceived as complexity to newcomers. Magic, and I do mean magic here not Powers, would follow. I'd like this section to comprehensively showcase one or two (depending on space) magic systems. I feel the powers creation rules should not be presented here. The ability to create abilities and spells from the ground up is probably not a feature newcomers would expect and could only be seen as complexity. Gamers wanting to delve further can always look at Champions Complete, Fantasy Hero or an hypothetical Book of Advanced Magic to support this book. Sounding like a broken record here but spell effects should be described in plain English and the builds kept in the appendix. A short bestiary (say 12 to 20 beasts) could be presented in tight stats blocks. Aside from the usual horse, choose classic but interesting creatures. Setting wise I think it would be good to see a close up on a region from the Turakian Age that could be exported to any setting if the buyer would so choose. A short adventure tied to this region would be a nice addition. HERO is great for fantasy because of the freedom to create exactly the character you want, second because the rules can simulate styles from gritty realism to cinematic high fantasy and third for its combat system, both simple and yet very tactical Finally, I want the book to be on the shelves drawing the attention of potential new HERO gamers. If going direct is better, go that route. An advantage kickstarter could bring is through the stretch goals (extra art, full color book, hardcover, cover the production of a companion book, etc...) so maybe it's something to consider as well.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Methinks this project needs a bit of marketing to create a buzz. Previews and full cover (complete with logo and all) posted here, on rpg.net and wherever would not hurt I suppose.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Re: Announcement: The Monster Hunter International RPG! Another good news! I will pledge for this one too. As for the book containing the rules, I am pleased as long as the rules are specifically tuned for the game. For me it means lots of pre-built abilities and talents, a tuned up skill list if needed (with regards also to KS, PS and such), spelledout complications and obviously templates. Heck, if the pre-built abilities and talents are extensive enough, I would not even mind if the power section is removed (or very much condensed). Most "outside HERO and such games" players are expecting shopping lists of abilities instead of building systems anyway. For those wanting more customization power, there is 6E and CC. It would makeme feel that I buy an already constructed game instead of buying the same engine all over again and yet would still provide all the flexibility of the system under the hood. On these board I am pretty sure I am a minority but in the outside world, not so sure...

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Yes, this is want I mean (I dislike Shuler's style). As for the art, we are in agreement, it was competent. What I am saying is that the whole look "feels" like a super supplement. The art is good enough and represents the genre well enough,the layout and borders enhance the four color feel and the one pager at the start of every chapters (including the full page drawing and colorful title) makes the book fun. So it is less a matter of "wow! the art is great!". Actually, GURPS Supers 4th has some of the same art but it as less of it, no catchy chapter titles or full page drawing at the start of said chapters and the layout and borders don't really enhance the look. The book just feel bland.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Regarding art, I went on Sam's site tolook at his work and was pleasantly surprised. There are pieces of art that I really like in various HERO books and cover that I didn't even realised it was his. My expectations are very high now! Regarding B&W interior, one super book that I believe is very well executed in that regard and feels like a four color supplement is GURPS Super 3rd (not 4th). I have the 3rd or 4th printing which got a major art overhaul compared to the previous printings so be careful.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Hmmm, I am not sure I would even bother with that but I understand why HG would.

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete To me it looks like a no contest: Champions. I am sure people (including myself) will sometime use CC in posts if only for speed.

Re: Selling All of My HERO 6E Books, 50% Off Cover!

Re: [New Product] Champions Complete Darn, it sucks. Le Valet's site shows all the book as available even 6E1 (which I know isn't) so I guess it's not upto date.