SCUBA Hero

Could this be the setting for the proposed ready-to-play book in the 5E Rennaissance thread? (He asked hopefully)

Gotta love that Bill Willingham art! 👍

Yeah, I was sorry to see that one go. But it's really just more dice of damage added to the base attack with the Limitation "Only Against Defenses", possibly with Standard Effect.

Makes sense. You'd need a 36d6 Normal attack to do Body on an average roll against 35 defense.

Same idea, but now it's available (if not common) tech. Wouldn't have to start out military, either. Remote surgeons. Carpenters (any skilled craft, really). Actual E-Sports leagues with regular Joes and Janes; the participants would willingly play for the money and/or fame. Boxing/MMA. Performances - probably not human voice, but instruments.

E-Sports are quite popular; they even have their own section on the msn.com homepage. That popularity, combined with the current fighting in Ukraine and some Cyberpunk ideas, produced the following RPG idea today (warning: this can get really dark really fast). E-Wars Imagine today or the near future, but with a neural implant and software that allows a remote ‘Gamer’ to control another person through that implant. The person with the implant must give over control (“HotShot357 is requesting control. Accept?”) and can resume control (with some difficulty). This is used willingly by ordinary people to be more effective in local conflicts, mostly in third-world countries, or in desperate situations (a sudden, full-scale assault on a country), with oversight to minimize any potential abuse. At first. Inevitably, the software is modified so that control isn’t required and resuming control is very difficult. Repressive regimes then put implants in unwilling subjects (first their own ‘undesirables’, then on ‘enemy’ civilians). Now you’re fighting your own mind-controlled cousin trying to kill you.

That's already the case: (6E1, p 326) "AVAD attacks only do STUN damage (even if in their ordinary form they do BODY), and the specified defense reduces their effect as usual."

Ah, I had misread Fast Draw - I thought you had to roll to draw as a Zero-Phase Action, but it's automatic (no roll). Thanks. So under RAW, untrained is draw/cock/fire - 1.5 Phases, while trained (Fast Draw 8- or better) is draw/cock/fire - 1 Phase with a single action revolver. Using a double action shaves .5 Phase off of either.

Standard times: Draw weapon - 1/2 Phase Cock a single action revolver - 1/2 Phase Fire - 1/2 Phase So, as most revolvers are single action, a character without Fast Draw skill cannot fire the same Phase as they draw and cock. That gives anyone with Fast Draw a huge advantage. (A double action revolver cocks and fires in the same 1/2 Phase Action.) Using the GM Permission note on p. 73, "a character can make a DEX or Fast Draw roll to cock a pistol taking zero phase, or to do so while on the move. A failed roll results in no special penalty, it just takes the usual Half Phase to cock." I'd allow a DEX roll at -3 (seems appropriate, as a 3-point Fast Draw provides the same roll as DEX and a Skill should always be better than a raw Attribute roll). Under that, our gunslinger has a Fast Draw roll to draw his revolver as a Zero Phase Action; then if he blows that roll, has another Fast Draw roll to cock the revolver and still get his shot off during the same Phase. Our cowboy (who has no Fast Draw Skill) draws and then has a DEX -3 roll (9-) to cock the revolver and get his shot off during the same Phase - if he blows that roll, he has to wait until his next Phase. Without the option, a character without Fast Draw simple cannot get a shot off in one Phase, starting from a holstered single action revolver.

My gaming group played a Mythic Greece Hero campaign. Very flavorful, different from 'generic' fantasy. 👍

Calling Wil Wheaton! 😁

Understood. Nonetheless, I can drive to my FLGS and see those books from other companies.

PS238 is great as a one-book playable supers game using Hero System. Lucha Libre is great as a one-book playable wrestling game using Hero System. However, both of those have limited appeal. Widening Gyre is great as a one-book playable steampunk game using Hero System. Narosia is great as a one-book playable fantasy game using Hero System. Western Hero is great as a one-book playable western game using Hero System. I'm not sure how well the first two have sold; Western Hero (from what I know) is selling well enough to justify the project. Traveller Hero is great as a two-book playable Traveller skin using Hero System. I don't know how well it sold, or if its demise was related to sales or royalty payments or IP/licensing concerns. Supers have a broad appeal. I'm trying to tap into that as the easiest/best way for Hero System to continue as a viable business (and yes, also because I like supers 😊 ).

Well, it's not part of the DND franchise. But it does use D20 for both combat and skills, so I consider it a D20 system. Palladium uses D20 for combat and D100 for skills, so I consider it to be a 'modified D20' system.

Other thoughts: Steve Jackson Games publishes an online annual stakeholders report: Steve Jackson Games: Report to Stakeholders for 2021 (sjgames.com) Some key excerpts: SJG has 36 full-time staff and contractors, plus a few part-timers. 2021 gross income was ~3.7 million, roughly $100,000 per person. The company shows a small loss in 2021, but this is somewhat misleading as Car Wars 6E is officially a 2022 release. Of particular note: "GURPS On Demand. It has taken us a few years, but we're now at the point that our GURPS On Demand series offers over 100 titles as print-on-demand softcover books. By taking advantage of Amazon's print-on-demand tools, we can keep these books in print and make it much easier for GURPS players to get them . . . almost regardless of where they live! (Amazon prints as close to the delivery address as possible, so you don't have to spend too much on shipping.)" Yes, I am aware that the Munchkin franchise is the economic engine that powers SJG and allows Steve to do some of the things that he wants to do. My main take-away here is, can Hero Games use Amazon's POD to get physical books back in print? No, it's not the same as being able to go to your FLGS and see the books on the shelf, but it's a big step forward (IMHO) from pdf only.

While I do think that using Champions Complete as the rulebook is well worth considering, I disagree that it would 'crowd an already puzzling bookshelf' - okay, yes as a crowded virtual (pdf) bookshelf in the store... as a physical bookshelf, not so much. CC has 31 copies in stock (will it be reprinted? I don't know.). Champions and CU are out of stock (will they be reprinted?). 6E1 and 6E2 are out of stock and will not be reprinted. Champions Villains Vol 3 (solo Villains) has 337 copies in stock, Vols 1 and 2 are not even listed as physical copies out of stock (the pdf's are there). Now I freely admit that as I am mumble mumble years old and remember when pdf's were not a thing, that perhaps I'm out of touch with what today's gamers want and a virtual bookshelf is fine. But I do know that I can drive to my FLGS and see hardcopies of other RPGs on the shelves. At one time, Hero System had a shelf as well. Now, maybe I can find one or two books in the 50% off shelf. For several years, not even that... A physical copy of Western Hero is beside my PC as I type this... Agreed. Would a combined rulebook and campaign/adventure book sell and bring in new players better than using CC and adding a campaign/adventure book? I don't know.

Killer Shrike has several magic systems presented on his website, including eight Skill based systems. Magic Systems (killershrike.com)

Look at Mighty Protectors (V&V 3.0). It's a D20 based system with a point-buy system and consistent mechanics. I think it works quite well for super heroes. I *prefer* Champions, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with MP. I ran a one-off for my (Hero System) gaming group - a golden age simple scenario and combat. They liked it okay, but prefer Champions.

I've said this before and I stand behind it; character creation is complex, the actual play of the game is not. As evidence, look at Champions Complete - the character creation rules are 118 pages, the combat rules are only 18 pages! Okay, that's not entirely fair, as Actions and some other items are not in the combat section, but still! Tangent: Mighty Protectors (V&V 3.0) unified a lot of the mechanics and put in a point-based character creation system. It's a lot less charty, and a lot more like Hero System. After thinking about it some more, I think having a stripped down location (Millenium City? San Angelo?) is a good idea - new player, you like this city? There's an entire existing book dedicated to it! I went back to Champions Complete and looked at the 6E Champions. Only Kinetic has Powers with more than two Modifiers: Super-Running (Megascale, Reduced Endurance, Only In Contact With A Surface) and Supersonic Finger-Snap (NND, No Range, Gestures). Defender doesn't have any Powers without Modifiers, but his whole thing is that he's Iron Man a power armor hero and thus bought through OIF. New thought: maybe have two character sheets, build and play. You don't need the points displayed on the playing sheet. That saves a bunch of space. When I run convention games, I have character sheets that state what the game effects are (example: in a Pulp Hero scenario [Nazi Death Zombies of the Congo!, available on *this very website*!] the Great White Hunter character has an elephant rifle. Player doesn't care about the build (or if he/she does, I have the build sheet available and can share it), player cares about, "Good range. Hits *really* hard. Has two shots. Takes time to reload, so make those two shots count." Yes, make it easy. Champions Skills - Defender looks overly complicated to my eyes. Sapphire and Kinetic could be simpler. Good ideas here! The entire purpose of this proposed product is to bring in new players. Lower the barrier to entry. How do we craft a product that does this? I think "like a very meticulous tax audit" is an invalid criticism (however, it *is* a criticism and does need to be addressed). I do agree that combat can and does take a long time; my group has had a combat or two where even we (who do enjoy both the system and superhero combat in general) were dragging. But the actual play - "Okay Diamondback it's your turn." "I jump on the giant ape and punch it!" "Okay it's the giant tiger's turn. It swipes at Professor Polar." The combat system *is* detailed (and IMO, simulates comic book battles very well) and I don't think that can be fundamentally changed without being not-the-Hero-System. Some folks want less crunch, and Hero System will not appeal to them. There are, of course, options to make combat more or less crunchy and these options are already discussed in existing books. Lower the barrier to entry for new players. Get new players in Hero System. Live Long And Prosper. I think a book that sets all of the toolkit options to a certain Supers genre and provides a setting and campaign will help do that. Again, character creation is the most complex part of Hero System. DND - make a first level character. Okay, I either roll or point-buy my stats (depending on the DM), allot skill points, select feats, spend money on equipment, a bit of background... ready to go! Level up? Roll for hit points, allot new skill points, new Feat (at certain levels), stat increase (at certain levels), maybe a new level-based ability... done! Hero - I have these XPs, what to spend them on??? It's so open-ended. For example, in our current Golden Age campaign my Speedster wanted to buy a Power straight out of The Ultimate Speedster - "Cant Hold Me!" - additional Strength only for resisting Grabs and Entangles. The experienced GM looked at it and said, "Okay, but only +40 STR instead of +50 STR, as that is in line with the campaign power levels." But how does a novice (to Hero System) GM know that? Make the campaign power levels explicit. Discuss them more than is currently done - "8D6 is agent-level, not too concerning to the Heros unless in large groups, 10D6 is under-powered but will do some STUN, 12D6 is average, 15D6 is a powerful attack that will Stun and possibly KO with one hit." Delve into the math (which 6E1 and 6E2 already do to some extent, and it goes back to early editions - I don't have the books available right now to point out examples. Talk about averages and standard deviations (although probably not actually using the term 'standard deviations'). I'm not saying make it as on-rails as DND progression. But *make it easy* for the new GM.

Interesting idea. So keep Champions Complete as the go-to ruleset - the character creation section clocks in at 118 pages - and 6E Champions and Champions Universe exist (as pdf's; books are out of stock) - I'm working away from home right now and don't have access to those books. Use the saved space for more adventure and campaign stuff, plus discussion of where the toolkit settings are for this particular setting. So buy CC, then the playable game (as Duke Bushido notes) book. If it sells, produce more adventures and possibly other playable games in single books for other types of comic book types/eras. The base idea here is to bring in new players, let them discover and enjoy Hero System, and hopefully branch out into more of it.

That's a crucial decision. Do you use an established setting (Millenium City) to point folks to existing product, or do you strike out on a new path? I'm not sure which is the best option. What brings in the most sales??? Keep skills light. In 1E Champions there are only 14 Skills (some of which are now Powers). Memory says that Steve Long in these forums once said, 'At the highest level, there are really only two skills: Know Stuff and Do Stuff. Everything else is specialization.' In a supers game, skill minutiae are not important. I crib from V&V 3.0 - you have two Backgrounds which give you the needed skills. Either two different ones (I would give 2 at 11-) or one specialized (I would give 14-).

Luche Libre Hero for the win! 😀

So I'm somewhat of a Hero System completist, and I noticed that I don't own Hero System Equipment Guide. Sell me on it. The description in the store is non-specific. I get that there's *lots* of write-ups. Is it possible to get a peek at the TOC? How many firearms are in the book? And so on.

I agree, Duke. Try to do one thing well. Leave the toolkit and Hero-can-do-anything (which are both big selling points to me, but I get that's not a big draw for new players now - heck, *I* probably wouldn't pick up Hero if my first exposure was to 6E1 and 6E2, and Hero is my favorite RPG) for later. Hey you - you want to play an Iron Man / Thor / Hulk / Hawkeye/Black Widow clone homage? Here it is, in one book! And if it sells, a whole universe of supplemental material. Classic Battletech, right? Basic explanation of the major powers in the first book, and everyone expects a book to detail each power (assuming they keep selling).

Okay, I've been following both this thread and the To-Hit thread, rolled it around in my head for a while, and I'm throwing this out there: Several folks think (and I agree) that a single book that has a playable superhero game, rather than a toolkit to make a game, would sell and bring new players. Existing examples of single book Hero games: Lucha Libre Hero Narosia PS238 Traveller Hero Western Hero Widening Gyre I propose we test letting other people put their money where we think they would... As a *very rough* first draft: Product: Four-Color Champions (working title). Purpose: Bring new players into Champions. Hopefully get them interested in broader Hero System products. Method: A single book, BBB sized or smaller, that contains rules needed for Champions ("Powered by Hero System!"), plus tips on how to play, power levels, a sample hero team and villains, including an organization (Viper?) and master villain (Dr. Destroyer? Mechanon? New?), a city setting developed enough to start a campaign (either Millenium City or a new [to Hero] city), and a ready to run scenario that launches the players and GM into that city. Brief info on the world. Concentrate on four-color, MCU-style power levels and play style in a present-day world setting, don't try to cover everything. The MCU movies are very popular, try to pick up on that wave of interest. Funding: Kickstarter. Start with a nice color cover and minimal B&W interior artwork; stretch goals would add more artwork and then upgrade it to color. Mention (and have) plans for future supplements: more linked adventures, a city development book; also to use Kickstarter. Maybe have a second adventure, linked to the first, at a high enough stretch goal to fund it. Staff: Writer. Editor. Proof-reader. Artist(s). Project coordinator. There are several pro-level, accomplished Hero authors. Christopher Taylor is concentrating on his fantasy setting and I respect that. Derek Hiemforth. Shadowcat. I am neither a writer nor an editor, but I can proof-read and coordinate. This project requires Hero Games buy-in and approval. Possibly re-use and modify text from Champions Complete and other previous Champions products. What does Herodom Assembled think?