Derek Hiemforth

I agree that a Martial Maneuver with the Disable element targeting a location is the cleanest way to model this (though I'd probably use 12 for the liver instead of 11).  However, while this could work fine for normal human boxers, it could also quickly become a game balance worry in other circumstances.  It might be worth considering an additional restriction like Reduced Penetration, to make it clear that even a little armoring will go a long way in mitigating the effects of such a punch.

21 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I also agree that you can use the language skill, and set up a couple different levels if you want to go that deep.  For simplicity, 1 or possibly 2 point language would work just fine, I'd think.

I agree with this.  If it has a relatively limited "vocabulary" (like the tactical hand signals), then I'd probably just make it a 1 CP Language (like a single dialect) for up to about 50 concepts, or 2 CP if it's more than 50, but still a defined, finite group of concepts. If it can convey any sort of concept, then I'd make it 3 CP (equivalent to "fluent with accent").

5 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Its implicit in the system, takes a half phase to ready a real weapon as opposed to some superheroic thing.

<nitpick> Technically, it takes a ½ Phase to draw a weapon, not specifically to ready it.  The default assumption in HERO is that if the weapon is drawn, it's ready.  It doesn't get granular enough to distinguish a drawn-and-ready weapon from a drawn-but-not-ready weapon in the same manner as GURPS.  </nitpick>

43 minutes ago, Foxiekins said:

What about non-Racial package deals...?  Things without Distinctive Features built in...?  Or do you feel the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself...?

I think the Knowledge Skill is sufficient in itself.  I think this effect is only worth a Complication if it means that people would know these things without a Skill.  In other words, it would be kind of similar to a low-grade version of Social Complication: Public Identity.  It's not that everyone knows your biographical details or other personal information, but everyone knows these traits about you.

Imagine it with vampires.  If I have KS: Vampires, then I know what vampires can do and what their weaknesses are, whether they have a Complication to that effect or not.  However, if a vampire has something like Social Complication: Stereotypical Vampire, because its abilities and weaknesses match the classic cinematic traits, then even people who don't have KS: Vampires know what this vampire can do and what its weaknesses are.

It strikes me as not being much of a Complication -- like it's getting points just for having a character concept.  Even if (some of) your abilities are predictable, that doesn't mean that how you would use them would be.

4 hours ago, BigJackBrass said:

Every forum I use has seen a drop in activity (hopefully not because I’m a member…), there are simply too many alternatives. Despite Discord’s chatroom style steam being singularly unsuitable as a forum substitute it does appear to suit what a lot of people like, so it draws folks away. Same with Reddit and the rest.

Yeah, I think this is the biggest factor.  People often end up discussing things wherever they already are, even if other places are better suited to the discussions.

11 hours ago, L. Marcus said:

The expanded language tables from The Ultimate Skill ought to suffice.

Agreed.  The similarity chart in HERO System Skills goes on for six pages, and only one page of that is Indo-European.

This really seems like a build question more suitable for the HERO System Discussion forum, as there's not really a rules question here.  A post there should generate plenty of worthy commentary and ideas.  🙂

11 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

+26 for strong psychological complication, +1d6 for surprise, +1d6 for exhibiting a power a power, +2d6 for extremely violent action, +1d6 for a good soliloquy, +1d6 for appropriate setting, +2d6 for target in partial retreat. That adds up to +10d6.  I skipped over a couple of categories completely, like interaction skills, need, and logic, nor did I take the maximum in most categories.  

 

This also does not include talents and perks.   A positive reputation in a small area like a city or a state on a 14- is 2pts per +1d6.  Striking appearance is 3 pts per +1d6 to affect all characters.   So, I spend 6 pts to get a +3d6 reputation and another 6 pts to get +2d6 striking appearance and now I am getting an additional +5d6. The reputation and striking appearance allow me to eliminate the violent action and psychological complication and still hit the +10d6.  I think most players seriously underestimate PRE.  
 

The biggest abuse of this would be when the character buys low number of dice and uses the PRE chart to gain enough dice to have a real effect.   If I buy 2d6 mind control and then get to add another 10d6 to it for things I have either not paid for or paid very little for that is abusive. 

True, but you also have to figure in penalties for things like conflicting psychological complications, combat, inappropriate setting, being at a disadvantage (which is often when you make a PRE attack, because you need a break to turn the tide), or a PRE attack running counter to existing moods.

In my experience, most PRE attacks include both positive and negative modifiers, and I'm not sure I remember seeing a net of more than +7d6...

14 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

getting a 10d6 bonus is not that difficult. 

Man, I want to game with your GMs!  I don't think I can remember ever awarding, or seeing awarded, more than 6 or 7 bonus dice...

2 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I think you'd have to buy it as the base power then bonus dice, based on presence attack modifiers. At least that's how I would build it.

I like this suggestion. Buy the base power, and apply Mental Power Based on PRE (-¼) to that per APG1.  Then figure out the maximum number of bonus dice you envision it being able to give you from the PRE Attack Modifiers table, and buy those, applying a Limitation like Only Up to the Amount of PRE Attack Bonus Dice Awarded (-½).

This would also have the plus that you wouldn't have to worry about a less-than-great PRE Attack actually making you lose dice (which doesn't seem too much in keeping with the idea of a "super-Interaction Skill" type effect).

I've also used this "shared points" concept beyond just things like vehicles or bases.  For example, I've used it to build characters like Voltron (where multiple folks have to combine in order to create a powerful "shared" character) or things like a powerful spell that an entire coven of witches must cast in concert.  The basic idea is that if all characters have to be present and willing to use it in order for it to work, then it's fine to split the cost among the characters.

I recommend posting this in the HERO System Discussion forum, as it's really a "how to build" question more than a rules question. You can have the special effect be "ear-splitting pain" regardless of which game mechanic you use to build it.  You'll undoubtedly get other suggestions in the forum as well, but from your description of what you want, I would probably have the base Power be either Mind Control (one command - get away from that awful noise), which the wolves would of course resist with their EGO, or Change Environment (built with penalties to CVs, hearing PER rolls, maybe INT and Tactics rolls, etc., whatever you want the effect to do).

All of the rules in the Advanced Player's Guides are optional, including Mental Power Based on PRE, so ultimately, it's a GM call on how they want to handle it, assuming they allow the optional Advantage at all. That applies to the following answer as well; GMs should feel free to change or ignore this (even more than they should feel free to change or ignore anything if it would make their game better):

The description of Mental Power Based on PRE makes it pretty clear that the intent of the Limitation is to allow you to use Mental Powers to make superhuman versions of Interaction Skills (APG1 p69). A Presence Attack is not an Interaction Skill, and does not work the same way an Interaction Skill does (it's an Effect Roll, not a Success Roll). Therefore, no, the PRE Attack modifiers do not apply to Mental Powers bought with Mental Power Based on PRE.

If you want suggestions on how to price an Advantage that would allow this, you should post in the HERO System Discussion forum. I think it warrants a lot of careful consideration, because adding and subtracting actual effect dice from a Power (especially a Mental Power) is a much different thing than just modifying a PRE Attack, and might significantly change the power levels of an ability pretty easily. I wouldn't want to venture an opinion without giving it a lot more thought.

I think this is a great idea, @Franklin W. Cain!

6E1 p161 under Special Powers: "Characters can buy Special Powers with all standard Power Modifiers (unless otherwise noted). However, they ordinarily cannot buy them in Power Frameworks without the GM’s permission."  (This rule is also found on CC p50 and FHC p60.)

50 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Definitely makes success less likely.

It does, but I would also add, the amount of change you'd get in the results (even if you and your group think it would be a good change) almost certainly wouldn't be worth the effort involved in re-jiggering the system to shift the core mechanic by one.  You could just simulate this effect by applying an automatic -1 to all Success Rolls across the board, rather than actually recalculating them to a lower base.  However, that might get things out of whack with other parts of the system in ways that aren't immediately obvious, because they're presuming you're using a base of 11.

My strongest opinion on this is that it definitely should not be a Limitation on all 4d6. Even at only -¼, that would drop the cost to 48. That's barely more than the cost of 3d6, and getting to roll 4d6 and keep the best 3 is way better than just a regular 3d6.

I think @dougmacd nailed it.  The right way to think about this is as 3d6 with a kicker... not as 4d6 with a Limitation.

On 8/4/2022 at 12:54 PM, Laser T. Swift said:

Was going through some old stuff I had boxed up for a move a long time ago and came across this treasure.

Nice!  I had one of those back in the day, though mine has long since been lost to time...

Also on 6E1 p56, in the last sentence under Familiarity and Proficiency, it says, "Proficiency functions just like Familiarity...."  This means that Proficiencies are subject to the same restriction about Skill Levels not applying.

Yes.  The same logic applies as for a Multiple Attack.

No.  Transform is not an Adjustment Power, nor otherwise subject to a similar cap on its total possible effect.

"....and other obstacles (such as walls)..."

The RAW are not talking only about the Power called Barrier.

6E1, p326:  AVAD attacks do not ignore Barriers or other obstacles (such as walls). Obstacles block AVADs like they would any other attack, unless the AVAD has an appropriate form of Indirect.

20 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

The Ghostbusters will likely never have a reason to engage in physical combat with other humans. 

 

However, as long as Venkman is in the team, other humans might initiate physical combat with them at any time...