How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

[Dog Soldier]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

My point was that some here don't seem to see it as an option but as a necessity

There doesn't necessarily have to be a need, but it could still be a possibility.

 

 

 

The why: because that's what the thread is about (see the title).

 

And, it's not "any given"...it's one in particular.

[Orion]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Not really sure why this is a discussion about how "realistic" any given genre trope is' date=' anyway. The only questions that need answering for my games are "Is it fun?" and "Does it fit?"[/quote']

 

The discussion is happening because for many of us, realism is important. If it isn't based on realism, I have great difficulty finding interest in it. Not everyone needs this solid underpinning to their campaign worlds, obviously, but many do.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Here's the thing...

 

Realistically carrying a katana around on a modern battlefield is a pretty bad idea and I think we have adequately outlined many of the reasons why.

 

However, once we start adding in cyberware, advances in materials and other bits of sci-fi that reality might very well change.

 

How it changes is ultimately subject to the style of game. At this point we are deviating from reality by an entirely unknown amount.... we don't know how good the guns, swords, armor, cyberware and so forth are, so who can judge how all these factors may influence combat? Only Ragitsu has all those answers for the style of his game.

 

That said, stylistically there's a million reasons we could come up with to justify street sams running around with katanas, if that's what we actually want to do in game. Some of them may even be pretty realistic reasons, if that fits the tone of the game and our knowledge of the setting...

[Ragitsu]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

As I understand it, has not the distance of military engagements shrunken since World War Two?

[Susano]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

It depends. If you want people running around with swords in a technological setting' date=' you have to provide reasons that make carrying a sword a good idea instead of unnecessary baggage. If you [i']don't[/i] want characters to carry swords, then give them plenty of better options, like "that sword weighs as much as six loaded clips for your pistol", or whatever.

 

Marta Nys in Kazei 5 carries three pistols and a katana. The guns are for people at range, the sword is when you have to work in close and don't want the noise of gunfire. Also, since her cyber gives her a 25 STR, 30 DEX, and 7 SPD, she can get away with it. Her sister carries a sword as well, since there's a lot you can do with a blade. Granted, she has a 40 STR, 26 DEX and a 40/40 FF. But then, K5 is meant to be more action/adventure (and anime) in style, not realistic.

[csyphrett]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

As I understand it' date=' has not the distance of military engagements shrunken since World War Two?[/quote']

 

Some, distance depends on environment. A battleship at sea can shoot at targets beyond line of sight. Tanks have been known to have been used as mobile artillary. In a city where collateral damage is required to minimized troops have to go door to door and most fights are at pistol range

CES

[Old Man]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

As I understand it' date=' has not the distance of military engagements shrunken since World War Two?[/quote']

 

Average firefight distance is entirely dependent on terrain. The average distance of engagements in the rolling fields and forests of Europe was long, but not long enough to justify the battle rifles then in use; it directly led to the invention of the assault rifle. The average distance of engagements in the jungles of Southeast Asia was much shorter. The average distance of engagements in Iraqi cities was shorter still, especially when going door to door. In the mountains of Afghanistan, the average engagement distance is so long that carbine-armed troops are having trouble delivering effective fire, and battle-rifle-caliber weapons are enjoying a renaissance there.

[John T]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

The discussion is happening because for many of us' date=' realism is important. If it isn't based on realism, I have great difficulty finding interest in it. Not everyone needs this solid underpinning to their campaign worlds, obviously, but many do.[/quote']

I may be mistaken, but this seems more an issue of erroneously mixing the terms "realistic" and "logical". If I only played games that were "realistic", I'd only play games set in the real world where the most interesting things I could do would be real-world things. Be an espionage agent, a mercenary, a hacker... *shrugs* But certainly not James Bond or any other heroes of "modern (-ish) settings".

 

On the other hand, I do rather prefer the games I run and play to be logical. The world logic doesn't have to be "realistic", it just has to be internally consistent. Saying my game world is flat isn't realistic, but if it's a fantasy setting with a lot of magic, and the world was made flat by the being(s) that created it (if any), then it's logical. It's explained in a fashion that is consistent with the setting.

 

The same is true here. It's not realistic to carry a sword around and seriously expect to use it as a weapon in a setting where some Greedo can pull a pistol, or a blaster, or a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, and blow you away before you get any closer than necessary to scream in annoyed defiance. On the other hand, if your speed and reflexes can be enhanced to the point that you CAN close the distance and lop off an opponent's head before he shoots you... well, again, that's not realistic... but in the context of the setting, it's perfectly logical.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

I may be mistaken, but this seems more an issue of erroneously mixing the terms "realistic" and "logical". If I only played games that were "realistic", I'd only play games set in the real world where the most interesting things I could do would be real-world things. Be an espionage agent, a mercenary, a hacker... *shrugs* But certainly not James Bond or any other heroes of "modern (-ish) settings".

 

On the other hand, I do rather prefer the games I run and play to be logical. The world logic doesn't have to be "realistic", it just has to be internally consistent. Saying my game world is flat isn't realistic, but if it's a fantasy setting with a lot of magic, and the world was made flat by the being(s) that created it (if any), then it's logical. It's explained in a fashion that is consistent with the setting.

 

The same is true here. It's not realistic to carry a sword around and seriously expect to use it as a weapon in a setting where some Greedo can pull a pistol, or a blaster, or a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, and blow you away before you get any closer than necessary to scream in annoyed defiance. On the other hand, if your speed and reflexes can be enhanced to the point that you CAN close the distance and lop off an opponent's head before he shoots you... well, again, that's not realistic... but in the context of the setting, it's perfectly logical.

i think they ARE confusing the terms realistic and loical

[dmjalund]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

hwever a Street Samurai is a more urban combatant, and may often have to fight people in an indoor environment, so the average range could be 30 feet or less.

[Lucius]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Or perhaps not everyone is using the same definitions for "realistic" and "logical."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is reasonable at one end and unreasonable at the other.

[Enforcer84]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

the original post was one sentence...there's been requests for clarification and a few responses along those lines. But it would help to understand the setting and what it entails before giving an answer that isn't just a gun vs blade debate.

[Dog Soldier]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

The term "Street Samurai" is about alliteration, not armament! Same for "Console Cowboy" or "Peter Parker" or any of the hundreds of other examples of alliteration in literature.

 

The SS is an Apex street fighter, with the nod given to the '80's trope of a futuristic Japanese technological hegemony. The SS had the finest cyberware from the blackest labs in Chiba. Only full on cyborgs were more heavily chromed and those guys were wholly own tools of the Megacorps.

 

It's got nothing to do with actual swordsmanship and it never did. Now if an individual PC wanted to keep a waikizahi slung in a special scabbard in his trenchcoat right down the his spine that's for the GM to deal with as he sees fit.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

It's got nothing to do with actual swordsmanship and it never did.

 

While it may not have started off that way, it's become a pretty common image in SR type settings.

 

Besides, I get the impression that Ragitsu want's it to work that way in his games regardless of how it may have been once apon a time in Chi-Town...

[Ragitsu]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

The term "Street Samurai" is about alliteration' date=' not armament![/quote']

 

Source?

 

I see it as more a meshing of Old and New.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Well, Molly Millions is kind of the iconic Street Sam and she doesn't actually use a katana (she uses hand razors)... but as I said things change with time..

[Susano]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Well' date=' Molly Millions is kind of the iconic Street Sam and she doesn't actually use a katana (she uses hand razors)... but as I said things change with time..[/quote']

 

Hence the name "razorgirl/guy."

[Burrito Boy]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Hence the name "razorgirl/guy."

 

I thought razorboy was a derogatory term for a guy who thinks he's a street samurai but isn't. Sort of like calling someone a poser.

[Susano]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

I thought razorboy was a derogatory term for a guy who thinks he's a street samurai but isn't. Sort of like calling someone a poser.

 

I've never seen that definition. I've always understood it to be another variation of street samurai.

[Old Man]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

While it may not have started off that way' date=' it's become a pretty common image in SR type settings. [/quote']

 

It has, but my recollection is that the term derives from the loyalty code, not the choice of weapon. Several works of cyberpunk fiction depicted a feudal dystopia of warring megacorps, where loyalty to the company was valued and expected. Street samurai were expected to obey their employer without question and if necessary, to the death. This was the only way to get the highest-paying contracts that in turn enabled the extreme body modifications.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

It has' date=' but my recollection is that the term derives from the loyalty code, not the choice of weapon. Several works of cyberpunk fiction depicted a feudal dystopia of warring megacorps, where loyalty to the company was valued and expected. Street samurai were expected to obey their employer without question and if necessary, to the death. This was the only way to get the highest-paying contracts that in turn enabled the extreme body modifications.[/quote']

 

Best answer thus far. I never really got into cyberpunk, as evidenced by my response in post #2.

[Mister E]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Street Samurai are posers.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

Street Samurai are posers.

 

In SR, many classic Mercenary types would agree.

 

True Merc's have Code and proper military training, after all.

 

Street Sams are just SINless gutter trash that have sold their bodies for power. No better than junkies or prostitutes in the eyes of the true professional.

[Enforcer84]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

In SR, many classic Mercenary types would agree.

 

True Merc's have Code and proper military training, after all.

 

Street Sams are just SINless gutter trash that have sold their bodies for power. No better than junkies or prostitutes in the eyes of the true professional.

 

Who are wankers.

[Ragitsu]

Re: How (un)realistic are Street Samurai?

 

No better than junkies or prostitutes in the eyes of the true professional.

 

I don't know of many junkies or prostitutes that could gut you with a teacup.