Nightcrawler Builds to Share?

[nedoking]

Good evening all!

 

I am running a Champions 4th Ed game (I know it very well - so I keep using it even though there have been some good updates).

My question / request: Does anyone have a build that simulates Nightcrawler that they can share?

I have a player who wants to clone Nightcrawler - and we are stuck on how to buy some of the powers he envisions.  For example, he wants to be able to teleport in-between two NPCs, then as they try to shoot him, he Bamf's away and they shoot each other.

 

To me, this is simply taking a half phase move in between two NPC's, then when the NPC's go on their phase he uses his remaining half phase to teleport away.  The player suggested something with Mind Control that "confuses" the NPC's - which seems too complicated (not to mention the discussion about why used an EGO based attack, etc).

 

Other things powers being discussed are AoE attacks to simulate him being able to hit many opponents quickly.

 

Hoping that someone's build might help us come to terms.

 

Thanks!

 

B E   A   H E R O ! ! !

[SDad63]

This is my version of Nightcrawler.  I think it was built with 5th Edition, but it should translate well into 4th edition and your campaign!

 

 

Nightcrawler

 

Val      Char   Cost    Roll     Notes

13        STR     3          12-       Lift 151.6kg; 2½d6 [3]

32        DEX    66        15-       OCV: 11 / DCV: 11

23        CON   26        14-

13        BODY 6          12-

13        INT     3          12-       PER Roll 12-

11        EGO    2          11-       ECV: 4

18        PRE     8          13-       PRE Attack: 3½d6

10        COM   0          11-

5/17     PD       2          Total: 5/17 PD (0/12 rPD)

5/17     ED       0          Total: 5/17 ED (0/12 rED)

7          SPD     28        Phases: 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12

8          REC    0

46        END    0

32        STUN  0

 

Movement

Running:         6"/12"

Leaping:          2"/4"

Swimming:      2"/4"

Teleportation:  32"/32768"

 

            Skills

3          Acrobatics 15-

3          Breakfall 15-

3          Contortionist 15-

3          Combat Piloting 15-

3          Electronics 12-

2          KS: Religion 11-

3          Language: German

3          Language: English

1          Language: Russian

3          Mechanics 12-

3          Paramedics 12-

2          PS: Circus Performer 11-

3          Sleight Of Hand 15-

3          Stealth 15-

3          Tactics 12-

 

            Talents

9          Ambidexterity (no Off Hand penalty)

18        Combat Luck (9 PD/9 ED)

 

POWERS [END]

 

58        Teleportation: Multipower, 58-point reserve

6u        1) Combat Bamf: Teleportation 13", No Relative Velocity, Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +¼)      [2]

6u        2) Group Bamf: Teleportation 14", Position Shift, x8 Increased Mass, x8 Noncombat        [6]

6u        3) Long Range Bamf: Teleportation 5", x2 Noncombat (North/South only; -½), x256 Noncombat, x4 Increased Mass            [6]

 

27        Deep Blue Fur: Invisibility to Sight Group, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½); Darkness or Shadow only (-½)

 

23        Grab and Bamf: EB 3d6, STUN Only (+0), NND (Teleportation Powers; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1½); Linked (Combat Bamf; Can only be used when character uses Combat Bamf at full value; -3/4), Must grab first (-½)          [5]

 

22        Extradimensional Senses: Spatial Awareness (Unusual Group)

10        Surest of Footing: Clinging (normal STR)

5          Night Eyes: IR Perception (Sight Group)

5          Prehensile Tail: Extra Limb (1)

5          Xavier Training: Mental Defense (7 points total)

5          Unstable Molecule Suit: Armor (3 PD/3 ED); OIF (-½), Activation Roll 15- (Loc 6-18; -¼)

 

 

Martial Arts

 

            Maneuver                   OCV   DCV   Notes

5          Kick                -2         +1        9 1/2d6 Strike

4          Block               +2        +2        Block, Abort

4          Dodge             --          +5        Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4          Punch              +0        +2        7 1/2d6 Strike

3          Throw              +0        +1        5 1/2d6 +v/5, Target Falls

 

12        +3 HTH Damage Class(es)

 

 

 

            Disadvantages

10        Distinctive Features: Mutant (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable Only By Technology Or Major Effort)

25        Distinctive Features: Blue, furry, prehensile tail (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

20        Hunted: Project Wideawake 8- (Mo Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)

10        Hunted: Brotherhood of Evil Mutants 8- (As Pow; Capture)

20        Psychological Limitation: Code Against Killing (Common; Total)

15        Psychological Limitation: Honorable (Common; Strong)

15        Psychological Limitation: Swashbuckler (Common; Strong)

5          Money: Relies on X-Men for expenses

15        Secret ID: Kurt Wagner (Frequently; Major)

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, nedoking said:

Good evening all!

 

I am running a Champions 4th Ed game (I know it very well - so I keep using it even though there have been some good updates).

My question / request: Does anyone have a build that simulates Nightcrawler that they can share?

I have a player who wants to clone Nightcrawler - and we are stuck on how to buy some of the powers he envisions.  For example, he wants to be able to teleport in-between two NPCs, then as they try to shoot him, he Bamf's away and they shoot each other.

 

To me, this is simply taking a half phase move in between two NPC's, then when the NPC's go on their phase he uses his remaining half phase to teleport away.  The player suggested something with Mind Control that "confuses" the NPC's - which seems too complicated (not to mention the discussion about why used an EGO based attack, etc).

 

Other things powers being discussed are AoE attacks to simulate him being able to hit many opponents quickly.

 

Hoping that someone's build might help us come to terms.

 

Thanks!

 

B E   A   H E R O ! ! !

    To me this requires that both the henchmen in question be dumb enough to turn and fire blindly into each other.   What may be easier is if NC ‘ports next to or behind one henchman, grabs control of the weapon and shoots the other one. 

[LoneWolf]

Another argument against the mind control is that it would be extremely expensive to build, and probably more than a beginning character can afford.  To affect both characters is going to require an area of effect.  It is also going to require he achieve a very roll.  At minimum it is going to be something the characters are normally against doing, and in more often than not be something they are violently opposed to doing.  So, to affect the normal 10 EGO thug is going to require a 30 if not 40 result. That means he is probably going to need at least 12d6 Mind control.  Unless he want to have to tell the thugs verbally to shoot each other that is also going to require the telepathic command advantage.  So, figure a 135 point active power to start.  That also means it cost 13 END and since it is an attack using it means he cannot move after he uses it.  There are way too many problems with this method to make it feasible. 

 

 

Missile Reflection would be a better way to do this.  I don’t have access to my old books so cannot look up the specifics but I believe there is an option on missile reflection to allow you to reflect it to other targets.   I think you can also continue to reflect attacks so he could redirect more than a single attack.   
 

[HeroGM]

Desolid with a trigger to teleport.

[Tjack]

1 hour ago, HeroGM said:

Desolid with a trigger to teleport.

      That only means he wouldn’t be hit.  It doesn’t make the two guards fire into each other.

[Mr. R]

6 hours ago, nedoking said:

For example, he wants to be able to teleport in-between two NPCs, then as they try to shoot him, he Bamf's away and they shoot each other.

 

Sorry to burst your friend's bubble, but that is what is called writers fiat.  It happens like that because the writers wanted it like that.  

 

But if he wants to really emulate it, then +5 DCV, cost endurance.  The SFX is he appears between two opponents and they foolishly try to shoot him, he aborts to dodge and activates the Mini Bamf.  This places the DCV at +10.  

 

Of course now you have to roll for each agent to see if they hit the other (if he says they should hit each other automatically, tell him there are NO absolutes in Hero, and if he insists, then when Dark Bamfer does it to the PCs, they get the same treatment [yeah other players will not let this fly])

 

We can get close to comics, but EVEN TSRs Marvel SHG didn't have this stated.

 

 

[Tjack]

16 hours ago, Mr. R said:

 

Sorry to burst your friend's bubble, but that is what is called writers fiat.  It happens like that because the writers wanted it like that.  

 

But if he wants to really emulate it, then +5 DCV, cost endurance.  The SFX is he appears between two opponents and they foolishly try to shoot him, he aborts to dodge and activates the Mini Bamf.  This places the DCV at +10.  

 

Of course now you have to roll for each agent to see if they hit the other (if he says they should hit each other automatically, tell him there are NO absolutes in Hero, and if he insists, then when Dark Bamfer does it to the PCs, they get the same treatment [yeah other players will not let this fly])

 

We can get close to comics, but EVEN TSRs Marvel SHG didn't have this stated.

 

 

       “Writers fiat” it’s also sometimes called “Holding the stupid ball”.  That’s the trope where a giant ball of stupidity seems to pass from one character to another like in the game Wonder Ball.  From character to character because without them acting in a clueless or out of character manner the whole plot falls apart.

 

   🎼The Wonder Ball goes round and round-To pass it quickly, you are bound-If you’re the one who holds it last-The game for you has quickly passed-And...You...Are...Out!🎶

[Hugh Neilson]

5 hours ago, Mr. R said:

 

Sorry to burst your friend's bubble, but that is what is called writers fiat.  It happens like that because the writers wanted it like that.  

 

But if he wants to really emulate it, then +5 DCV, cost endurance.  The SFX is he appears between two opponents and they foolishly try to shoot him, he aborts to dodge and activates the Mini Bamf.  This places the DCV at +10.  

 

Of course now you have to roll for each agent to see if they hit the other (if he says they should hit each other automatically, tell him there are NO absolutes in Hero, and if he insists, then when Dark Bamfer does it to the PCs, they get the same treatment [yeah other players will not let this fly])

 

We can get close to comics, but EVEN TSRs Marvel SHG didn't have this stated.

 

We can build a lot of different things.  This could be a complex build involving Triggered attacks (perhaps an area of effect attack with a trigger and some limitations; it doesn't really matter if the SFX of the attack hitting the two mooks are identical to their own SFX). It could be a Change Environment that reduces the mooks' DCV against the cross-attack.  Note that Nightcrawler only seems to use the ability against mooks, so it doesn't need to do a lot of damage - point out that he doesn't use this against Magneto or the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

 

My guess is that this ends up being a very complex build with limited practical application, and is best left to writer's fiat as Mr. R said, though.  In fairness, that writer's fiat is also not how gamers normally play.  "What? He vanished at the last second? Well, I don't attack then, realizing in a fraction of a second that I should not fire that blast after all."  Maybe that CE imposes a (penalized) DEX roll or the target fires off their most readied attack.

[SCUBA Hero]

To me, that's a tactic Nightcrawler uses, not a power that he has.  I think you have it right - he teleports between two NPCs and bamfs out as they attack.  The effectiveness depends on the NPCs.  Are they trigger-happy?  Probably works.  Are they trained soldiers?  Probably won't work (maybe the first time...)

[nedoking]

First, let me give a BIG "Thank You!" to ALL that replied!

 

The builds look great - and the discussion is very, very helpful.  Lots of great comments to think over.

 

My thinking had been to "do it simple".  Either as suggested above (Dodge, Costs END, etc) or have the player roll an opposed DEX roll, with success allowing the PC to teleport away and the goons shoot each other. I figure, "Hey, this IS a comic book - let the players have the fun that is in the comics".

 

However, I am also a big believer in keeping balance - and didn't wanna over simplify and miss something that made this unbalancing.

Again - thank you to all.  I welcome any more suggestions.

 

 

B E   A   H E R O ! ! !

[Christopher R Taylor]

The "does damage to others when teleporting" thing is tough, as is the "grab and teleport away" but it can be done with a few tricks including stuff like trigger.  Nightcrawler has a VERY high speed, around Spider-Man level (7 or so?) because he's doing like 3 things to every agent's 1.  He's incredibly agile and can blend into dark places, making him difficult to see.  He's got a lot of training in fencing and knife fighting as well.

[HeroGM]

So Desolid now means that nothing can go through them? News to me.

 

Huh..person on either side, character Desolid...I guess me and my GMs gave been doing it all wrong.

[Hugh Neilson]

14 hours ago, SCUBA Hero said:

To me, that's a tactic Nightcrawler uses, not a power that he has.  I think you have it right - he teleports between two NPCs and bamfs out as they attack.  The effectiveness depends on the NPCs.  Are they trigger-happy?  Probably works.  Are they trained soldiers?  Probably won't work (maybe the first time...)

 

If I had a player routinely using a tactic like this, I would be inclined to flesh out how it will work.  Perhaps the NPCs make PER rolls opposed by Nightcrawler's DEX roll to notice his last-minute disappearance before attacking/pulling the trigger.  Even trained (agent-level or higher) soldiers will find this difficult given Nightcrawler's agility, and that is probably fair.  Then we need to figure out the OCV of the shooter (0, since he was not aiming at his teammate?  Is it a surprise move if the target misses an opposed roll with Nightcrawler?) and DCV of the target. We also need to assess whether this becomes more predictable with re-use on the same opponents, if opponents have been briefed on Nightcrawler's tactics or even if this tactic becomes more broadly known due to media coverage of Super-battles where it is used.

[steriaca]

14 hours ago, HeroGM said:

So Desolid now means that nothing can go through them? News to me.

 

Huh..person on either side, character Desolid...I guess me and my GMs gave been doing it all wrong.

Desolid means everything can get through, except for a small number of attacks defined by the power and the player. 

 

Anyways: Hero System Book Of Templates page 28, Teleporting Demon. Your welcomed. 

[SCUBA Hero]

So I was re-reading 5E Champions.  In that book this tactic is called a "Sucker Attack".

 

I won't reproduce the text.  The technique is to get between two enemies and wait for one (or both) to attack.  The character must have a Held Action, then Dodges (Nightcrawler would of course bamf out).  Make the normal DEX vs. DEX roll to go first; if the dodger loses the first attacker's attack happens before the dodge (rather than the normal 'Abort to a defensive Action automatically goes off first', but this is an offensive use of Dodge and so seems reasonable).  If the dodger wins the contest, the attacker makes an Attack Roll using only OCV (no CSLs, maneuver bonuses, or suchlike) against the second attacker's DCV.

 

Aaron Allston had it figured out in 2002. 😁

[Christopher R Taylor]

There's a section in Western Hero where it has a bunch of Western Schtick stuff like "how to ride a horse off a cliff".  Every genre book should have that kind of thing: here's how to do classic bits from this genre.  Getting two fools to shoot each other belongs in several genres.

[nedoking]

Again, thank you to all who responded!