Weird Retro Question: Black Mamba

[Bathawk1]

  Hey know this is random, but Black Mamba (AKA Dr. Timothy Blank) has been a long standing member of the Champions pantheon. But one thing has confused me for years

 

One this that has been consistent with him through all his appearances is his "Drain" (1/2 vs. CON and 1/2 vs. PD)....what is the special effect of this ability? a constriction attack? poison? something more exotic? Just been on my mind for the last few days. Thanks

[steriaca]

10 minutes ago, Bathawk1 said:

  Hey know this is random, but Black Mamba (AKA Dr. Timothy Blank) has been a long standing member of the Champions pantheon. But one thing has confused me for years

 

One this that has been consistent with him through all his appearances is his "Drain" (1/2 vs. CON and 1/2 vs. PD)....what is the special effect of this ability? a constriction attack? poison? something more exotic? Just been on my mind for the last few days. Thanks

No. King Cobra is Dr. Timothy Blank. Black Mamba is a related villain.

 

And if I remember correctly Black Mamba was a straight up Brick. King Cobra is also a Brick with a transformation attack. 

 

Humm...maybe Black Mamba's attack is some kind of vemon... I have to check him out sometime.

[Bathawk1]

Ah yes, Black Mamba is "Jefferson Durant"...honest mistake with the Black Mamba/King Cobra connection

[Lord Liaden]

I'm pretty certain Black Mamba's last published appearance was in the 4E VIPER source book. That says nothing about the SFX of his Drain -- Champs writers often weren't too fussy about those details in the '80s and '90s. Mamba's not in the 5E VIPER book, and there's no mention of Jefferson Durant in the rebooted history of King Cobra and COIL.

 

There are a couple of precedents from the recent write-ups of classic villains, King Cobra and Leech (Champions Villains Vol. 1 & 3, respectively) that could apply. King Cobra himself wields a suite of varied offensive Powers under the general heading of "Bioenergy," including a broad-effect Drain, his "Bioenergy-Sapping Touch." Leech's main attack is a Multipower of Drains, classified as magical "Life Leeching," which require him to first Grab his target.

[steriaca]

I would use the same special effect as King Cobra, "Bioenergy". Just make it so he has the protental with his powers, but not the practice and mastery over them.

[Pattern Ghost]

Seems like with a name like Black Mamba, venom is very possible. I don't have my books handy. Does he have any other powers to lump that attack into the same special effects as?

[Lord Liaden]

Nope. He's otherwise a pretty straightforward light brick.

[dmjalund]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Nope. He's otherwise a pretty straightforward light brick.

[steriaca]

Looking over Black Mamba's Classic Enimies entery.

 

He can work in 6ed. Simply have him blackmailed by Dr. Blank (instead of having him already King Cobra), and make him a prototype of the changes Blank wanted for himself. He could even abduct his family (secretly using VIPER), then kill them off when he got all the data he needed from Black Mamba. He then tricked Mamba into a freezer where he kept the bodies of Mamba's family in and revealed his plans while Mamba slipped into suspended animation.

 

Later VIPER had him thawed out, pretended not to know Cobra's plans and let him into the organization by saying they are working on a cure for him.

 

Statwise, he is the same. I would add a minor VVP to represent minor equipment he can get from VIPER. Including stuff he designed himself. In cold climates, he wears a heating harness which negates his Cold Blooded limitation and adds Cold Weather life support to him.

[starblaze]

I believe in the 5th edition VIPER game Black Mamba turns traitor and seriously injures VIPER until he is caught and executed.

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, starblaze said:

I believe in the 5th edition VIPER game Black Mamba turns traitor and seriously injures VIPER until he is caught and executed.

So that means he is off the table then?

 

Nope. Still on the table. That was Cottonmouth, not Black Mamba. In fact, there is no mention of Black Mamba in the 5ed book at all.

[Tech]

Personally, I always used it as a poison attack.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, Tech said:

Personally, I always used it as a poison attack.

 

Do you mean, as a contact poison? There's no mention of any kind of fang attack in BM's Power design or character description, so delivery by touch would fit better.

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Do you mean, as a contact poison? There's no mention of any kind of fang attack in BM's Power design or character description, so delivery by touch would fit better.

Except it doesn't have a "No Range" limitation. 

[Lord Liaden]

Except that it does have a "Must Follow Grab" Limitation. And Drain under 4E has no Range by default.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I remember being very puzzled in the early Enemies days because they'd just list powers without any explanation or special effect. Ankylosaur was one of the worst, this huge list of attacks but what did they mean??  Eventually it was revealed in later write ups that he had a grenade launcher in his tail with different kinds of grenades.

[Tech]

41 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Except that it does have a "Must Follow Grab" Limitation. And Drain under 4E has no Range by default.

 

Exactly.  Yes, I always thought it was a contact poison.

[Spence]

The exact text from the book is:

 

"6d6 Drain (½ from CON, ½ from PD), ½ END, Must Grab"

 

and

 

"If he's forced to fight, Black Mamba will use his power drain at first (note that the effect of the PD drain is halved), then punch when he feels his opponent's defenses are sufficiently weakened". 

 

Since he must grab I don't think I would go with poison at first glance.  If it was contact poison all he would need is contact, not a Grab.

 

But then I have nothing else that would work as an explanation to offer either

[Pattern Ghost]

1 hour ago, Spence said:

"6d6 Drain (½ from CON, ½ from PD), ½ END, Must Grab"

 

and

 

"If he's forced to fight, Black Mamba will use his power drain at first (note that the effect of the PD drain is halved), then punch when he feels his opponent's defenses are sufficiently weakened". 

A light brick with that attack seems more like some kind of constrictor than elapid.

[steriaca]

1 hour ago, Pattern Ghost said:

A light brick with that attack seems more like some kind of constrictor than elapid.

Ok. I can see it as an effect of squeezing (constricting). It should be rewritten as an AVLD (PD) attack. But that's just me, not 'official'. Mich like Bolaris' Mind Control "hypnotic lights" power shouldn't work against people who can't see it, but somehow does anyways. 

[Tech]

19 hours ago, Spence said:

The exact text from the book is:

 

"6d6 Drain (½ from CON, ½ from PD), ½ END, Must Grab"

 

and

 

"If he's forced to fight, Black Mamba will use his power drain at first (note that the effect of the PD drain is halved), then punch when he feels his opponent's defenses are sufficiently weakened". 

 

Since he must grab I don't think I would go with poison at first glance.  If it was contact poison all he would need is contact, not a Grab.

 

But then I have nothing else that would work as an explanation to offer either

 

As a single power can be written up multiple ways in the Hero system, I still think this was supposed to be a contact poison attack; they just decided he needed to Grab you to effectively use his attack. A Black Mamba uses a neurotoxin bite to deal with its prey; so I wouldn't use this as a constricting power.

[Bathawk1]

16 hours ago, steriaca said:

Ok. I can see it as an effect of squeezing (constricting). It should be rewritten as an AVLD (PD) attack. But that's just me, not 'official'. Mich like Bolaris' Mind Control "hypnotic lights" power shouldn't work against people who can't see it, but somehow does anyways. 

 

Yeah "....1/2 vs. PD; must follow grab" makes it sound like a constricting attack, Though the Black Mamba snake is a venomous snake, not a constrictor

20 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

I remember being very puzzled in the early Enemies days because they'd just list powers without any explanation or special effect. Ankylosaur was one of the worst, this huge list of attacks but what did they mean??  Eventually it was revealed in later write ups that he had a grenade launcher in his tail with different kinds of grenades.

 

You really want crazy? Try Citadel from 3rd edition "Villainy Unbound" and 4th edition VIPER. They later cleaned him up unofficially in an "Adventurer's Club" article "Castle Security" where longtime exposure to power dampers reduced him to "just" a growing brick

[steriaca]

We can always say the poison is contact which is released via a gland in his arms. But then it should be AVLD (NND: Imunity to Snake Poison).

 

Or it could be a bio-energy discharge thing which is activated by grabbing and "injecting" this energy into others. This way we don't have to alter the power at all.

[Tech]

20 hours ago, steriaca said:

We can always say the poison is contact which is released via a gland in his arms. But then it should be AVLD (NND: Imunity to Snake Poison).

 

Or it could be a bio-energy discharge thing which is activated by grabbing and "injecting" this energy into others. This way we don't have to alter the power at all.

 

What I've started doing for poison power villains who have a Drain attack, I add the following to their powers:

 

"Also, doesn't work with LS: Immunity to poison"

 

[Lord Liaden]

Do you make that a Limitation, or just the SFX?