Most challenging campaign concept or character design to simulate using Hero System

[Steve]

What character design or campaign concept proved to be the most difficult for you to simulate with Hero?

[Richard Logue]

Its a work still in progress for me as I haven't used the character yet. And I haven't used him yet because I have not been truly satisfied with the results.

 

Essentially, he's an angel, fallen from grace and on a personal mission for (as yet undefined) mystical power. His power concept seems relatively simple, but its been a nightmare for me to stat it out. He steals your "soul," and can then use your powers. Laid out, his touch renders a super powerless and in a comatose state, and he can now use that super's powers and abilities. (Point of interest here... he's meant to be a very powerful villain in my campaign world.)

 

Hand of Death: Drain BODY 4d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1) (90 Active Points) (uses Personal END); 90 points, 4 END

 

Soul Stealing: Major Transform 3d6 (people into powerless, comatose people, Dispel), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), BOECV (Standard Defenses apply; +1) (112 Active Points); Linked (Hand of Death; -1/4); 90 points, 0 END

 

Aid Power Defense 3d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Year; +2 1/2) (105 Active Points); Linked (Soul Stealing; -1/2); 70 points

 

Transfer 2d6 (END to END Reserve), Can Transfer Maximum Of 32 Points, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), BOECV (Mental Defense applies; +1) (100 Active Points); Linked (Soul Stealing; -1/2); 67 points

 

Endurance Reserve (50 END, 50 REC) (55 Active Points); 55 points

 

Power Mimicry: VPP, 120 base + 65 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (300 Active Points); Limited Power - VPP Powers can only Transform victim's powers at the victim's levels or max available Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1); all slots Limited Power - Cannot Mimic powers based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic powers based on Magic or Sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4); 185 points

 

Characteristics Mimicry: MP, 90-point reserve, (90 Active Points); Limited Power - Can only mimic Transform victim's Characteristics at the victim's levels or max available Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1); all slots Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on magic/sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4); 33 points

5m 1) +60 STR (60 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on magic/sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4) (uses END Reserve); 6 END

5m 2) +20 DEX (60 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on magic/sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4)

5m 3) +30 CON (60 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on magic/sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4)

6m 4) +5 SPD (50 Active Points); Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on Foci. Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2), Limited Power - Cannot Mimic characteristics based on magic/sorcery. Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (-1/4)

 

I dunno....

[Ghost who Walks]

I've had this character idea buzzing around in my head for weeks, and have no idea how to write it up.

 

Basicly, guy finds a ancient egyptian jar, containing the disembodies brain on the Egyptian God, Horus. God thanks dude for finding the jar, and uses him to fight for justice and goodness.

 

As for the powers, I'm leaning towards a multipower, but I want the effect to be that its actually Horus casting the spells. He is simply using the character as conduit/pack mule.

 

The dominant character (PC) of the two is supposed to be the guy who found the jar, not the brain in a jar.

[caris]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

I've had this character idea buzzing around in my head for weeks, and have no idea how to write it up.

 

Basicly, guy finds a ancient egyptian jar, containing the disembodies brain on the Egyptian God, Horus. God thanks dude for finding the jar, and uses him to fight for justice and goodness.

 

As for the powers, I'm leaning towards a multipower, but I want the effect to be that its actually Horus casting the spells. He is simply using the character as conduit/pack mule.

 

The dominant character (PC) of the two is supposed to be the guy who found the jar, not the brain in a jar.

 

Well, I'd start with some variant of No Conscious Control lim.

[McCoy]

Scarlet Witch. Champions, AFAIK, doesn't have a mechanism for the "Wand of Wonder" effect, where the character doesn't know what's going to happen when the power is activated. Variable intesnity can be achieved by nesting activations, but this character needs variable Sx, variable advantages, and even variable base powers.

 

Vertigo. Yes, DEX drain, but seems like there is something more.

 

Proteus and Malace. Never seen possession handeled well in Champions.

[Intrope]

Well, I don't have an example of a hard construct. But I have some thoughts about the examples so far:

 

Soul-stealer Angel: That's rough (any variant of Rogue is always tough). How about:

Transform (Spirit) BOECV (into 'spiritless being') and a VPP, only to buy Multiform into me+stolen powers. By selecting the size of the VPP, you can limit how much of the target's powers the angel can borrow. Naturally, the VPP control can be limited (it requires you take someone's sould, that's pretty limiting). I'm assuming that the Angel retains all it's own powers once it's stolen a target's, of course.

 

Horus-in-a-jar (neat idea, BTW): if Horus isn't independent (he just casts spells when needed, and acts as an information source): he's just a cool OAF on your multipower/skills. I'm assuming you want H-jar to be a little more active; in that case, why not duplication?

 

Vertigo: instead of DEX drain, how about Flash (to all senses, yipe) BOECV? or maybe NND defense: not having human-class mind? That would give you a power that completely disconnects a character temporarily. After all, if all your senses have been flashed you can't make a PER roll to lessen your blindness penalties!

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Intrope

Vertigo: instead of DEX drain, how about Flash (to all senses, yipe) BOECV? or maybe NND defense: not having human-class mind? That would give you a power that completely disconnects a character temporarily. After all, if all your senses have been flashed you can't make a PER roll to lessen your blindness penalties!

Flash doesn't ssem right either, she usually does get tagged, by Beast or the highest DEX opponent available. But attacking perception may be the way to go. Maybe Change enviroment with negatives to DEX, movement, OCV, and all perception?

 

Has the virtue of not having been tried. Let me think about it.

 

And thanks!

[lemming]

Hmm, sort of thinking of the Scarlet Witch scenario.

 

No Conscious Control just on the Variable SFX advantage?

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by lemming

Hmm, sort of thinking of the Scarlet Witch scenario.

 

No Conscious Control just on the Variable SFX advantage?

 

The Scarlet Witch is an interesting case. I wouldn't use NCC because that takes the action out of the player's hands. Rather I'd say that the player can control the specifics of the power, but the character can't. Make the player pick a special effect from the environment (I'd give it a -1/4, or at best a -1/2 similar to "focus of opportunity"). The GM can modify or veto the decision, since he rules on what the environmental resources are.

 

Naturally this would only work for a player who has no trouble distinguishing between his own motivations versus the character's. For instance, the character might cast a hex to take down a villain. The player decides that a high-tension power line will snap and land on top of said villain. Now the character might not have chosen this option, because it inconveniences one of her allies; but the player should be willing to make the sacrifice if it's the only reasonable option. (If you want to force such a situation with game mechanics, add Unluck as a Side Effect.)

 

The Scarlet Witch would be fun to play, but you'd definitely have to work at it.

 

-AA

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by caris

Well, I'd start with some variant of No Conscious Control lim.

Not quite what I am looking for. The general idea is a guy who knows nothing about magic, yet is able to cast really powerful spells.

 

Originally posted by Intrope

Horus-in-a-jar (neat idea, BTW): if Horus isn't independent (he just casts spells when needed, and acts as an information source): he's just a cool OAF on your multipower/skills. I'm assuming you want H-jar to be a little more active; in that case, why not duplication?

The jar will be sitting back in his house on a shelf, a "mystical link" will prvide the power to cast the spells.

 

Duplication might work, but if he is on all the time then it would pretty much be a follower. I wonder if I could build it as a computer?

[caris]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

Not quite what I am looking for. The general idea is a guy who knows nothing about magic, yet is able to cast really powerful spells.

 

 

The jar will be sitting back in his house on a shelf, a "mystical link" will prvide the power to cast the spells.

 

Duplication might work, but if he is on all the time then it would pretty much be a follower. I wonder if I could build it as a computer?

 

OK, mind if I back up a bit? How much actual control do you want the player, not the character to have over the abilities?

[Intrope]

Originally posted by Ghost who Walks

Not quite what I am looking for. The general idea is a guy who knows nothing about magic, yet is able to cast really powerful spells.

 

...

 

The jar will be sitting back in his house on a shelf, a "mystical link" will prvide the power to cast the spells.

 

Duplication might work, but if he is on all the time then it would pretty much be a follower. I wonder if I could build it as a computer?

 

Well, how about just buying all of Jarman's powers with a -1/4 limitation: only while he owns the jar (about as restrictive as OIHID, someone could steal the jar or he could be taken to a place the jar can't reach) and a Psych Lim: doesn't understand magic? And possibly Accidental Change: Horus sometimes casts a spell other than what Jarman wants, or a times he doesn't want to cast?

 

If you want Horus to be an active participant all the time, he could be an AI (or permanent duplicate) with Clairsentience (only through Jarman's eyes) and all powers: indirect, megascale range (1" = 1km) and Only through Jar Bearer ( -3/4?). So long as Jarman is within say 500km Horus ought to be able to cast through him (the GM would have to waive the range penalty though). Maybe Jarman also has to concentrate to channel the power?

 

I think I'll steal this idea though; Horus in a jar (warbles: Horus in a jar-o ) could be very cool.

[Ghost who Walks]

Originally posted by Intrope

If you want Horus to be an active participant all the time, he could be an AI (or permanent duplicate) with Clairsentience (only through Jarman's eyes) and all powers: indirect, megascale range (1" = 1km) and Only through Jar Bearer ( -3/4?). So long as Jarman is within say 500km Horus ought to be able to cast through him (the GM would have to waive the range penalty though). Maybe Jarman also has to concentrate to channel the power?

 

I think I'll steal this idea though; Horus in a jar (warbles: Horus in a jar-o ) could be very cool.

This sounds like the way I will do it. I wanted Horus to be able to withdraw his magical support, and this seems to be the way to do it.

 

I got the idea from reading up on egyptian mummification, they used to remove all the organs and put them in sealed jars. They would sometimes do it with the brain, usually they would toss it out. I figured he would be useful for mystical plot hooks and what not.

[gewing]

Posession as Jericho did it was my first thought.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by gewing

Posession as Jericho did it was my first thought.

 

Same here.

 

Then there's auto-hit and full invulnerability, since absolutes are ruled out by design philosophy. Homing attacks are also a pain.

[Zaratustra]

For a Wand of Wonder effect, I'd make a Multipower with the No Conscious Control limitation at -1 level.

 

Heavy time travel stuff (time freezing, freezing other people and such) are hard to do. Combining two people (a la Dragonball Z or Digimon) is hard. Wild Cards 'jumper' effect is hard.

 

Multi-use powers like the Mage the Ascension spheres are hard to do (Except for the 'VPP with limitations' way, or the Power skill that always makes me feel like a cheater)

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

Same here.

 

Then there's auto-hit and full invulnerability, since absolutes are ruled out by design philosophy. Homing attacks are also a pain.

Best I've been able to come up for full invulnerability is desolid, inate, fully invisable power effect, with "affects solid" on all powers and attacks. Expensive, but best I've come up with.

 

Homing attacks as summon, Write up a full character sheet on the missile/bullet/whatever, and let it repetedly attack tatget on its own until it hits or is killed.

[Syberdwarf2]

For the W.O.W. effect, I would build it as a VPP with No Consious Control bought at -1. That way, the character can use it at will, but can't control the effects. Also, I would have the effects of the VPP's use chosen from a prewritten list, prefferably written by the player with at least some of them built to mess up the PC in question.

 

The GM would of course have to approve of all prospective powers/effects and possibly throw in some "Really Big Nasties" solely of his own devising.

[CorpCommander]

Originally posted by Syberdwarf2

For the W.O.W. effect, I would build it as a VPP with No Consious Control bought at -1.

 

Too me this sounds like a lot of work for the GM. I might allow it if the character defined all the possible effects, put them in a nice table and then randomly rolled for the effect. Its kind of a wierd and useless character concept, though, don't you think? I mean what good is it if you want to heal someone and you hit them with a fireball or if you are being attacked and the effect is all the windows in a 15 hex radius become clean?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by McCoy

Scarlet Witch. Champions, AFAIK, doesn't have a mechanism for the "Wand of Wonder" effect, where the character doesn't know what's going to happen when the power is activated. Variable intesnity can be achieved by nesting activations, but this character needs variable Sx, variable advantages, and even variable base powers.

VPP with the -1 version of NCC (which I call Random) where the character can activate the power, but not control it. When the character turns the power on, roll on a list of possible effects. Takes a lot of work in advance to make up long charts of prebuilt effects to roll against, but can be done. More annoyance than its worth generally.

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Vertigo. Yes, DEX drain, but seems like there is something more.

Could probably use Change Enviroment for her power in 5e, although it would be outrageously expensive.

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Proteus and Malace. Never seen possession handeled well in Champions.

Wont disagree with you there, but Bodyjacker (IIRC) of PSI is an interesting take on it.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by CorpCommander

Its kind of a wierd and useless character concept, though, don't you think? I mean what good is it if you want to heal someone and you hit them with a fireball or if you are being attacked and the effect is all the windows in a 15 hex radius become clean?

Which is just about where Wanda was as of Avengers #16. Her power was sometims an indirect RKA, sometimes a NND, on rare occasion a transform, supress, or summoning. But she never knew what is was going to be. Even with the RKA, it could be that a high voltage line spontaneously broke and fell on her target, or that a gas main under his feet exploded, or that his focus backfired. Again, she had no control. In fact sometimes the power would accidently discharge when she didn't want it to.

 

How would you do this character in Champions?

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by McCoy

Best I've been able to come up for full invulnerability is desolid, inate, fully invisable power effect, with "affects solid" on all powers and attacks. Expensive, but best I've come up with.

 

This works. Of course, that makes for a lot of game mechanics scrawled on teh character sheet, which is one of those reasons people tend to think Hero lacks "flavor" for some genres, like Fantasy. (Where in DnD you might have just as much game mechanics per spell or power, they're usually left in the book, since they're pre-made. It's a false gripe, really, but there it is.) That aside, I do dislike long power write ups and favor bumping up Damage Reduction to Full and just charging an arm and a leg. For most of my games, I'd only allow this for limited SFX though. I do agree with the no absolutes policy up to a point.

 

Homing attacks as summon, Write up a full character sheet on the missile/bullet/whatever, and let it repetedly attack tatget on its own until it hits or is killed.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant by "a pain." It also works, but it requires a vehicle character sheet, and when you're talking about attacks that are basically energy blasts, like Darkseid's Omega Effect (I think that's it), you run up against that sheet full of vehicle stats being used to run an energy blast, the same mechanics on the char sheet intrusion into flavor that I mentioned above.

 

So, both are doable, but they don't look real purty either. =)

[Pattern Ghost]

For the Wanda Wonder effect (figured I'd save some typing there), I think the table method is probably the best way to go. If there's a limited number of effects, like in a WOW, then I'd have the player work out a chart to roll on for effect and then apply the -1 NCC as Killer Shrike described, and buy it as a MP with a bunch of fixed slots. For Wanda's power, I think I'd go with a Cosmic VPP, with the -1 NCC again, Limited SFX to Probability FX (prob. at -1/4), Activation, and Side FX. The activation roll would determine whether the power activated in a good way or a bad way. A missed activation means something happened, but not necessarily anything useful for the situation, and the worse the miss, the worse the outcome. On a successful roll, I'd just use a list of predefined sets of modifiers to work from, and apply an appropriate power to them. Or just have something happen. It'd be a bit of a pain, but it could be set up with a chart. If the chart is big enough, then there should be plenty enough combinations to give variety, so long as the GM doesn't mind winging it on the SFX.

[Bengal]

I see no problem with offering 100% resistant damage reduction as a straight 120-point power. Not that I allow people 120-point powers, but it seems to be a valid construct to me. 240 points to be immune to physical and energy attacks? Expensive, but cheaper than the desolid option.

 

 

Wanda is a plot device and not a character at all, which is why she translates so poorly to Champs.

[pinecone]

Sorry I was short of time and did not read the thread so I may be duplicating.....I have never been able to make a satisfing version of the absorbing man...in 5th I'd most likely go with an odd VPP:Multiform with some limits but the result is real clunky and the multiple disadds give so litttle when taken (don't aply to VVP cost) that only a drunken player would build such a thing....