Hit location or not?

[JmOz]

I use targetting but not hit locations (In otherwords unless you aim the damage is general)

[pinecone]

I have used hit locs for 4 color and I liked it fine...but most people (I beleive) would find it "not comic booky"...how about adding in Only for "real weapons"? make the limit also be a smal advantage and drop real to a zero lim......I found that the hit loc fixed the stun lotto (which does not bother me at all anyway) as the curve is flatter than 1 1D6 range......Try it as a short term thing and keep or drop depending on enjoyment.....

[BNakagawa]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

I use it for flavor.

 

it helps make the combat more interesting

 

and heck you are only throwing another 3d6 of a different color at the same time. "I hit him in the Ooooooooh face for 64 stun and a whopping 18 body " "Metamuscle clutches his jaw with obvious agony as he flies back 10 " "and skids across the pavement coming to rest against the curb"

 

is better IMNSHO

than "I hit him for 64 stun and 18 Body"

"Metamuscle flies back 10" before coming to rest against the curb"

 

Helps the players

 

True, but if you're using it for flavor, you're better off just handwaving the location based on the damage rolled, rather than randomly generating a location. Otherwise, you might end up with nonsensical damage/location combinations.

 

If you are using the location to affect damage, then you run afoul of the one shot knockout scenarios that anyone with even a little system savvy can figure out...

[Gary]

Has anyone using Hit Locations dealt with the obvious scenario where someone Entangles a foe, and then his teammate immediately does a head shot vs 0 base DCV?

[Blue]

I haven't had my players think of it, though if they tried it I'd allow it. Then when they actually likely kill the guy they'd catch all kinds of heat from other sources.

 

With great power, yadda yadda...

[Kzinbane]

Well Hmmm!

 

I see fairly good reaons both for and against using HL in a super's type game. I think I will default back to one of my favorite sayings - if it works, don't F*** with it. Alternatively if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If the guy (good bullseye type) runs into an ultra-brick and is having lots of problems I may let him try for a head shot or otherwise give him a chance to do extra damage otherwise it's really not been an issue. It just struck me that it may be fun to add for effect and game flavor.

I'll use it sparingly - otherwise attacks that hit will be considered to hit center of mass.

One thing I always consider in gaming - if the good guys can do it so can the bad guys. I'm sure the players don't want someone to entangle the groups brick and blow his brains out with a called shot through an eye hole!

[Grailknight]

I've tried a campaign using hit locations and we didn't like it. It made normal damage into the stun lotto. The one shot stuns on 12/13 rolls were balanced numerically by the no effect arm and leg shots but all it takes is a 1.5x at the start of battle to ruin a scene. We did use it for killing attacks and found it works better than the stun lotto.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Gary

Has anyone using Hit Locations dealt with the obvious scenario where someone Entangles a foe, and then his teammate immediately does a head shot vs 0 base DCV?

yes.

 

However, we used the fact that it was double the STUN & Body after defenses. Killing Attacks were set at x3.

 

We also had for 20 points, Hit Location negation for defenses. (Damage reduction basically)

 

It worked fairly well at what most would consider a high powered game.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Blue

I haven't had my players think of it, though if they tried it I'd allow it. Then when they actually likely kill the guy they'd catch all kinds of heat from other sources.

 

With great power, yadda yadda...

 

Would they kill him, though. Assuming, say, a 6d6/6 DEF entangle, the victim has an extra 12 points the KA has to get through. Assume a 4d6 KA that rolls 24 BOD. Subtract 12 for the Entangle, and 12 gets past to be halted by the target's resistant defenses. Assuming he's got 10, 2 BOD slips through, doubled is 4. A lot of Super targets will take no BOD. But he's done 120 STUN, less 12 - 108, subtract 40 defenses and 68 still gets through - a powerful hit!

 

Average rolls? 14 BOD, 2 gets through the Entangle, so he takes 4 BOD max, even if the target has no resistant defenses. 70 STUN - 12 = 58. Not a bad hit, and certainly better than average with a 4d6 KA. 18 STUN against a 40 DEF character, whoich is better than the 2 an average 12d6 EB would have inflicted.

 

Guess I'm with Gary on this one. [if Gary and I agree, how can there be opposing viewpoints... ]

[Vorsch]

If a basic MA or agent can use hit locatons its game over for the brick character.

 

Eg MA agent 101

 

str20 Dex20 spd 4

off strike, block, dodge

+2 dc MA

+4 MA levels

12 PSL

 

About 100pts

 

This guy will be doing 20d6 head strikes, and hitting the brick most times. this from a normal unarmed human. now if he has a decent dex spd (30/6) and 12d attacks he will murder a group of bricks.

 

Its the doubling of the dice that makes the differences in the same way as haymaker was fixed, hit location should be fixed. The more powerful the attacks the worse the problem gets.

 

I would advise against them except for heroic ( humans with guns) games.

[Gary]

That's actually a great idea. Instead of multiples of damage, have a fixed amount.

 

Head +4 DC

Vitals +2 DC

Stomach +1 DC

Chest Normal

Shoulders/Thighs -1 DC

Arms/Legs -2 DC

Hands/Feet -4 DC

 

This cannot more than double the base attack, or reduce the attack to less than 1/2 the base attack.

 

A nice way to have Hit Locations and keep it balanced at the same time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Gary

That's actually a great idea. Instead of multiples of damage, have a fixed amount.

 

Head +4 DC

Vitals +2 DC

Stomach +1 DC

Chest Normal

Shoulders/Thighs -1 DC

Arms/Legs -2 DC

Hands/Feet -4 DC

 

This cannot more than double the base attack, or reduce the attack to less than 1/2 the base attack.

 

A nice way to have Hit Locations and keep it balanced at the same time.

 

Now how do we deal with Stun multiples? If all head hits are x5, we still have the called shot to the head issue (it's worse, since we get bonus DC's as well - more Stun, less Bod). If not, we get head hits that just glance off and foot hits that stun the Brick.

[BNakagawa]

Originally posted by lemming

yes.

 

However, we used the fact that it was double the STUN & Body after defenses. Killing Attacks were set at x3.

 

We also had for 20 points, Hit Location negation for defenses. (Damage reduction basically)

 

It worked fairly well at what most would consider a high powered game.

 

how about NNDs and AVLDs?

[Gary]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Now how do we deal with Stun multiples? If all head hits are x5, we still have the called shot to the head issue (it's worse, since we get bonus DC's as well - more Stun, less Bod). If not, we get head hits that just glance off and foot hits that stun the Brick.

 

Probably would have to go with a straight 2.5 or 3 Stun multiple. The Hit Location, added to the fact that KAs have fewer dice in the first place, will result in sufficient variability of results.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by BNakagawa

how about NNDs and AVLDs?

 

Most of them have special effects that aren't really appropriate for Hit Loc, in my opinion, and therefore don't get bonuses for position. It doesn't matter where the gas attack hits you, for example, it matters that you breathe it. In these cases I either let the PC roll StunX or use a standard x3 depending on how dramatic the action is

[Vorsch]

EB NND neural disrupter should get bonus for head strikes .

 

A flat bonus to damage in DCs or just +5/+10/+15stun would keep HL balanced while making them useful.

 

Human MA agents knocking out bricks is a bit strange ( 20d6 ) Cap could probabilly manage 30D6.

 

And besides heroes an vilains are always getting hit in the head without it being a game over move.

[Captain Super]

The real problem with using Hit Location for called shots is in the evil use of PSL. Nobody should have 12 PSL in a campaign with called shots, NOBODY (well maybe Chun, the master of Shinanju from Remo Williams). If someone is held with 1/2 DCV and a called shot is made to the head (after -8) then so be it, IMHO.

 

Without abuse called shots O.K>, but note that it is open to abuse. Possible answer, if Find Weakness above 10 points, no hit location, or anti PSL levels to counter PSL for hit location.

 

BTW, NEVER use hit location for normal attacks w/o called shots for supers, it just doesn't fit the Genre.

[BNakagawa]

You don't need 12 PSLs to abuse hit locations.

 

if I'm playing a DCV 6 brick and get disadvantaged in any way (knocked down, entangled, flashed, whatever) then you only need to hit a dcv of 11 (less if entangled) to punch my ticket to KOville. (usually by way of ConStunnedTinople)

 

It's hard to find a villain in print that can't hit that at least 50% of the time without spreading. Hit locations turn bricks into an endangered species and turns martial artists and EBers into headhunters and nutcrackers.

 

$0.02

[Rune]

I don't use hit locations in my superhero campaign for genre reasons, play balance reasons and because I don't want to have to roll another set of dice.

 

One way to build a "Bull's Eye" Effect is to have the character buy some additional DCs that only trigger when a certain condition is met. For example, the extra dice could apply only when the target has been hit by a certain amount over their DCV or if the target doesn't have large amounts of Resistant Defenses. Hitting the Thing in the head is not the same as hitting the Torch in the head.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Gary

That's actually a great idea. Instead of multiples of damage, have a fixed amount.

 

Head +4 DC

Vitals +2 DC

Stomach +1 DC

Chest Normal

Shoulders/Thighs -1 DC

Arms/Legs -2 DC

Hands/Feet -4 DC

 

This cannot more than double the base attack, or reduce the attack to less than 1/2 the base attack.

 

A nice way to have Hit Locations and keep it balanced at the same time.

 

I agree, this is a great idea.

 

As to the original question, I don't use them in superheroic games. As others stated, the damage potential is great and on either end (low or high) seems genre-incorrect as to the way it gets inflicted (though the above table tempers this well). Also, for flavor, it's easier in a superheroic game, for me, to base describing where the blow landed on the damage inflicted, as others have mentioned.