Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by Dr. MID-Nite

Does anyone remember a module...called Bad Medicine for Dr. Drugs....or something like that? That was an excellent example of "Teen Champions". Some very interesting character concepts...if I remember correctly. It's been ages since I've seen it.

 

Rob

 

A Vilians and Vigilantes Module IIRC...

 

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Chuckg

Stephanie Brown, aka 'The Spoiler'.

 

OTOH, she's also been ably fighting her supervillain dad, and AAMOF he's the main reason she got into the costume in the first place. Having lived first-hand with how supervillainy wrecks innocent lives, she just can't stand the idea of it. (It was a while before she actually consciously articulated that motive to herself, but it had been driving her all along.)

 

Or to quote Steph herself -- "I've always wanted to be a superhero. Blame it on negative role modeling."

 

As for the teen-aged pregnancy... yes, she got pregnant in a stupid way. OTOH, how she handled the crisis, and how well and how quickly she matured under it, showed her to be the most admirable type of person.

 

She might have started out immature, but she didn't stay there very long.

 

Very true.

 

I was mainly commenting on the fact that it happened at all. The Silver Age this ain't.

[Tclynch]

How 'bout Teen super monkeys? With a human sidekick?

[HeroGM]

"Dr Drugs" was a module for Superworld and Champion's, published by Chaosim(sp) in the early 80s.

 

Don't forget Speedy and drugs back in the 70s. Young Justice and Robin are very good ideas, the new Teen Titans is ok.

 

As for Buffy, the thing with the 4th season is that it was about high school kids getting into that big pond and adjusting. And the 7th season focused more on Buffy being a grown up working at the school then going back to school from the kids point of view (I wonder what happened to Dawn's two friends from the first/second episode).

 

The current run of New Mutants has been pretty good. Gives the view point of some of the orignal New Mutants as well as a current set of kids. If you want to go back to the original Uncanny X-Men I'd suggest finding a copy of the Essentials volume. It's dated I know, but kids haven't changed THAT much since then. Also don't forget the fact that Johnny Storm (Human Torch) was actually supposed to be a teen when the FF started, probably about the same age or a few years older then Peter Parker.

[Solomon]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

A Vilians and Vigilantes Module IIRC...

 

 

Bad Medicine was a Chaosium module. It had a tear-out character sheets section - Superworld stats on one side, Champions on the other. A good adventure BTW.

 

Edit: ChaosDrgn beat me on time.

[levi]

As with any genre or campaign it isn't about the points of the characters, its about the setting, adventures and the role-playing.

 

That said...let's look at the original Teen Hero Book...Teen Titans! Robin has more self-control and skills than the others, but no Powers to speak of...Raven on the other end of the spectrum was insanely powerful with little control or skill.

 

By disallowing (or discouraging) Frameworks and removing point caps, you can give the players a relatively small amount of points (say 225) and get a broad range of abilities.

 

ex: Robin has 100 points in Skills and a ton of 30 point gadgets with Focus Lims.

Raven would have 90 points each in a couple of Powers (TK, Telepathy, etc...) with major Lims (Activations, Skill Rolls, Extra Time, Gestures, Incantations, etc...)

 

As far as what I'd like to see....Ravenswood Academy details as well as Tons of setting material as others have mentioned.

[rjcurrie]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

As the sole Valiant Comics fan of old on these boards, I must suggest Harbingers at least as yet another example of teen supers.

 

Hey, KS, you are not the sole Valiant Comics fan on these boards. I myself have a fairly good sized collection of Valiant books. I should dig them out someday and reread them.

 

But yes, Harbingers is a great suggestion.

 

Rod

[rjcurrie]

As someone mentioned Infinity Inc. earlier in the discussion, how a section on being a superpowered child of superbeings?

 

Oh, and while we're on the subject of Roy Thomas comics from the 80s, there was also the Young All-Stars, the post-crisis follow-up series to the All-Star Squadron.

 

Rod

 

[Chuckg]

Heck, why not PS238?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by rjcurrie

Hey, KS, you are not the sole Valiant Comics fan on these boards. I myself have a fairly good sized collection of Valiant books. I should dig them out someday and reread them.

 

But yes, Harbingers is a great suggestion.

 

Rod

Permit me my small delusions please!

 

Seriously though, no kidding, another Valiant reader. We are few amongst many

[AnotherSkip]

a few notes:

 

my bad on Dr Drugs.... Never owned/played it.

 

how about Shazam? a kid who has the power to transform into some one as powerful as Supes.

 

and yes you are not the only Valiant reader by a long shot. Not that I have much mind you... but some.

 

And Don't forget Sidekicks in Heroic Campaigns....

 

Other issues would be the Law and Children Superheroes/Sidekicks.

 

Stan Lee always hated sidekicks because it was endangering children. My own character deals with the issues by the following countering arguments:

The Child must be trained properly, experience is the best teacher.

The Child cannot be phisically Challenged OR Protected by anyone short of Superheroes (yes BOTH children of mine can Fly, level a city block and face most millitary weapons without fear, I'd like to see someone try to give them an effective spanking, or Lock them in their room....)

The Child is only threatend by things that threaten everone. IF the Supervillian is going to blow up the city if I fail. Then my Child will likely die too, the danger is essentially equidistant.

 

And Last but not least:

 

i'm a Vigilante, you gotta catch me first.... Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyah Naaah!!!!!!!!

[Stephen Mann]

Keeping super-kiddies from danger

 

In my game, supers have to earn the right to be trusted by the public, it's not automatic. It's suggested that they start their careers by helping emergency workers rather than fighting crime. It doesn't matter how strong you are or how fast you can fly, none of that proves to the cops that you know/understand the law or can cooperate with authorities.

 

It seems to me that having powers and a neat costume does nothing to keep the chief of police calm after hearing that a new superteen has one-punched a drug dealer through an abandoned building. A new superteen volunteering to teleport accident victims to the hospital is a lot less stressful.

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by allen

Where's this book from? I'm not sure I've heard of it....

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561630519/qid=1077639609/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-4747345-7427059?v=glance&s=books

 

Unfortunately, it's out of print. It's a very funny book about the lighter side of superheroing. It includes important considerations like how your name, costume, and personal rogues gallery will affect your marketability. It gives the pros and cons of boy versus girl sidekicks, how to get superpowers and how gaining them can go horribly wrong (Radiation accident= Mr. Low Sperm Count or Mrs. Low Sperm Count), and such things as advice on where to acquire a sidekick. Good method: find a kid with precocious acrobatic skills whose parent were just murdered. Bad method: raid a random orphanage or approach kids on the street offering to teach them wrestling and give them a pair of tights so they can go cruising for action with you in your car.

[allen]

Originally posted by BishopofB&W

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561630519/qid=1077639609/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/103-4747345-7427059?v=glance&s=books

 

Unfortunately, it's out of print. ...

 

Steve has come to the rescue and offered to loan me the book, so no worries about it being out of print... thanks for the info -- I'm looking forward to reading it.

 

Another teen comic that's a good example of teen-age street level heroics (ala 4th edition Dark Champions) is Cloak and Dagger from Marvel. Some of their appearances in various Spider-Man comics were good issues. I'm not sure I'd recommend expending lots of bucks getting the series. I enjoyed the first volume of their own title and the Strange Tales that came out in the late eighties (maybe third volume of Strange Tales) -- however I make no promises anyone else will enjoy it .

 

If you can find a run for 25 or 50 cents an issue, and are looking for some inspiration for a teen-age, street level superheroics, I'd say it's worth a shot.

 

(An aside: the Strange Tales also have Dr. Strange stories, where he studies with Kaluu (sp?) and fights a Lovecraftian monster thing. Again, I gotta a kick out of it, but... umm... maybe not to everyone's Strange taste.)

[Kevin]

I would like to see the book deal with teen villains as well.

 

The ramifications of normal parents having super-powered children would be great to cover, as well as second generation super heroes.

 

Smallville recently did a twilight zone inspired story with a teenage supervillain. Her parents were terrified of her and had been abused by her.

 

Also the conflict between normal parents and superpowered mentors would be of interest.

 

In Teen Titans, many of these issues are being addressed.

 

The school system's dilemma of what to do with Wonder Girl is a good example of the problems facing a teen hero. With her identity exposed, the school was unable to educate her because of the risks posed by supervillains attacking public school and the insurance nightmares accompanying that risk.

 

Kid Flash is a third generation superhero rebelling because Flash didn't take him seriously.

 

Robin is arguing with Batman because he wants to reveal his identity to his Dad, and Batman doesn't want him too.

 

Superboy is struggling with establishing a secret identity and pretending to be normal, and benefitting(!?!) from having somebody older than him who has been through this before to talk with.

 

The issues being raised in Teen Titans are all great for a Teen Champions book!

[Kevin]

How about a support group for bitter ex-sidekicks?

 

I'm thinking along the lines of ex-child stars who grow up and then whine that they never had a childhood, didn't really have a choice about what they were doing, and now have been tossed aside in favor of younger faces.

[Mutant for Hire]

Definitely have a section on second/higher generation superheroes. The ones whose parents, at least one of them, are superheroes. That's something that DC and Marvel, with their funky timelines, have never really gone for in a big way.

 

And yes, there needs to be a whole section devoted to modelling new powers that have just come up and are barely under control or are causing other interesting side effects (the speedster having attention span problems, etc.).

[BishopofB&W]

Originally posted by Kevin

How about a support group for bitter ex-sidekicks?

 

I'm thinking along the lines of ex-child stars who grow up and then whine that they never had a childhood, didn't really have a choice about what they were doing, and now have been tossed aside in favor of younger faces.

 

I thought they were called Old Justice.

[Chuckg]

Originally posted by BishopofB&W

I thought they were called Old Justice.

 

*wince*

 

Let's not have that go into the sourcebook, shall we? That arc, to put mildly, bit.

[levi]

I know Young Justice has been mentioned, but speaking of Teen Villains and interactions. The YJ had a cool arc where there was a villain who terrorized and intimidated his own parents before wounding Arrowette. New Warriors had the arc where Vance shattered every bone in his father's body after suffering years of beatings and anti-mutant verbal abuse from his father and he struggled with how close he had come to crossing the line between hero and villain himself. One notable problem I have had with (an otherwise exceptional run) Ultimate Spider-Man is his lack of teen villains.

 

I would definitely like to see some Teen Villains in this book.

[Chuckg]

Whoa yeah. *Very* powerful moment on that YJ issue. Remember how Harm died?

 

After successfully fighting Young Justice to a standstill single-handed, he went back home to terrorize his parents some more...

 

... and his father shot him in the back with a .38.

 

(Harm had turned his back on his parents, with his guard completely down -- after all, they were just puny normals who he already had completely psyched. He thought.)

[allen]

Originally posted by levi

I would definitely like to see some Teen Villains in this book.

 

And there will definitely be teen villains in the book

 

For a teaser, there's a brief reference in Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth I'm hoping to expand upon in Teen Champions.

[Killer Shrike]

Wasnt there a limited series back in the day of this setting with a collection of messed up "superheroes", like the gay batman clone, a junkie speedster, a klan-esque vigilante, and a dominatrix, and focused on them all getting and traumatizing new sidekicks in various ways?

 

Very messed up series, early 90's?

 

Anybody?

[HeroGM]

Originally posted by levi

I know Young Justice has been mentioned, but speaking of Teen Villains and interactions. The YJ had a cool arc where there was a villain who terrorized and intimidated his own parents before wounding Arrowette.

 

Harm, he turned out to be Secret's adopted brother.

[assault]

Some thoughts:

 

(1) The source material is all over the map in terms of power levels.

 

The (original) Teen Titans had Robin, Speedy, Wonder Girl and Aqualad - none of which really need huge quantities of points.

 

But then, there was Kid Flash. To build someone like him you would need to ruthlessly cut out abilities he "hasn't developed yet", which would get you down to reasonable power levels, but you would still have trouble with his tactical movement abilities. The problem would be that it would be too easy to outrun/outfly the "speedster". There are a few ways around it, but the character would still be a little bit wonky.

 

(Memo to self: Cut down Dex, maintain Spd. Hope he has enough Combat Luck. Spend extra points on Megascale and Non-Combat movement, plus boosting his multipower pool.)

 

(2) Someone suggested that nobody has really explored the super-powered parent/super-powered kid relationship in a serious manner. This is not true. DC explored it in a seriously bad manner back in the 70s!

 

See:

http://superman.ws/super-sons/saga/

http://superman.ws/super-sons/little/

http://superman.ws/super-sons/nomore/

 

I kind of like these stories, even though they're shockers.

 

(3) I reread Bad Medicine for Doctor Drugs last night. My main impression was that the pregenerated characters were losers. It's actually explicitly stated at one point that "A typical alter ego for a teen hero is the classically inept nerd". For some reason, the thought of playing a "classically inept nerd" appeals to me somewhat less than playing, ohh, some other game entirely...

 

BMDD also has a bunch of logic holes and wild assumptions which make it unlikely to work out the way it seems to be intended to work out.

 

Despite all that, though, it's actually quite cool.

 

(4) That reminds me. Since Teen Champions will need to cover "the school experience", it will necessarily have to cover the _US_ school system(s). It won't be able to cover other systems to any useful degree. That's a mild worry, but I'm over it.

 

The important side effect of that is that people from outside the US are going to have to have a lot of basic stuff explained.

 

(5) A bad thought: people who have attended school together for years tend to know each other. A lot of high schools tend to draw most of their students from a fairly small pool of primary (elementary) schools. It's quite likely that students at many schools will have extensive networks of contacts with other students. Only new students "won't know anyone". Even recluses will have had some kind of past association with other students. Unless, of course, they have something _really_ wrong with them.

 

Of course, personally, I left town after high school as did the bulk of my friends. While I eventually drifted back, I haven't encountered very many of my schoolmates, even the ones that stayed here all along. These contacts have gone away - but they existed at the time.

 

Many teen heroes will have KS: fellow students, even if they don't have actual Contacts or Favors with them. In some cases their fellow students may have useful friends or family members of their own.

 

Spending points on Perks and "social KS's" seems a little unlikely for characters that are built on very few points to begin with, but it is "realistic". Other Perks can exist too - wealth, vehicles (cars!), bases and so on. Hmm. Followers too! There's no law against Super-Pets. Or Trusted Family Retainers either.

 

...

 

Well, there's a lot that can be covered. It looks like it could be quite fun.

 

I don't want to think about what happens when the super-teens from various different schools start crossing paths.