Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

[Hermit]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Nope, not that I know of. Lately we've been bedazzled by the mystic supplements that have stormed out.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

The Xmen Evolution and Static Shock animated shows might make for good inspiration for a Teen Champions game.

 

On the more anime and sopeopra side, Sailor Moon showed us that it wasen't easy being a reincarnated magical princes.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Robin's comrade...what's here name' date=' in the purple, has a supervillain dad, and got pregnant.[/quote']

 

Spoiler, AKA Robin #4. Her dad was named...(wait for it guys)...

The Cluemaster.

[Stephen Mann]

One more thought for the book

 

So far, we've been focusing on teen heroes. What about the training academy for teen villains? There's one for teens who know they want to be villains, the one for kids captured by Viper/PSI/etc who are forced/brainwashed to be villains, or the multi-generational metahuman street gang.

 

If you use the professional sports metaphor, who are the scouts who watch metahuman juvie court for their respective organizations (on either side of the law)? Who are the independent villains who gather orphan mutants into their own gang?

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I just tried to build a somewhat convincing Robin like character on 200, I think 250 would be better

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Just started a new thread about Teen Champions: Go take a look

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22726

[Steve]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

As the sole Valiant Comics fan of old on these boards' date=' I must suggest Harbingers at least as yet another example of teen supers.[/quote']

 

Killer Shrike, you are not alone. I too am a fan of Valiant Comics stuff. I agree that Harbingers made a decent example of a teen team.

[Chuckg]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

INVINCBLE, currently out by Image Comics, also has a whole lot of great stuff for high-powered teen supers.

[Steve]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

On a side note' date=' it'd be cool to see "The Teen Champions" in the book Any chance of Seeker making it on that team? [/quote']

 

I want to second this notion, and I think it would be very cool. Taking the example of the Teen Titans, you can draw loose parallels between them and what teen versions of the 4th Edition Champions could be like:

 

Seeker: Robin

Solitaire: Raven

Quantum: Starfire

Jaguar: Beast Boy

Defender: Cyborg

Obsidian: ???

 

It would be a fun version of the team, with different names for some, which would be a nice way to see the old versions done in new and interesting ways.

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

In defence of Veitch:

 

(1) His stuff on Swamp Thing was "just fine".

(2) Bratpack was a response to the incredibly tacky way DC handled the killing off of Jason Todd. "If you think Jason Todd should die, dial... If you think he should live, dial..." I mean, ewww...

(3) Bratpack was definitely memorable. On the other hand, Maximortal, part of the same project, was just unpleasant.

 

But anyway, back on topic!!!

 

I've been dabbling with 200 point characters over the last few days, in order to see what was possible.

 

My conclusions are: yes, you can build "high-powered" characters on that point total. The trick is to cut back their characteristics and skills to the _absolute_ minimum.

 

OK, everybody, break out your copies of the Champions genre book. Turn to the random chargen section.

 

Look at how the 350 point characters it produces break down: 125 points of Chars, 50 points of Skills, 100 points of primary powers, and 75 points of secondary powers.

 

OK, so if you are building a character on 200 points, you have a few options:

(1) Maintain most of the Chars and Skills, and cut down the powers to a minimum;

(2) Maintain most of the powers and cut down the chars and skills to the _absolute_ minimum,

(3) Balance the two, with your character being weaker in both areas, but still relatively balanced between the two.

 

Of course, if your character depends on a focus, or some similar limitation, your job becomes a lot easier, but I am generally assuming unmodified "mutant-style" powers here. (Or, of course, fairly weak powers mostly bought through focuses - "gadgets".)

 

Building Robin, Speedy, Bucky, or any of the non-powered sidekicks, in this situation, is a matter of emphasising chars and skills at the expense of powers. This works well enough.

 

Building relatively weak characters like Aqualad, early Wonder Girl, or even Smallville-style Clark Kent is a balancing act. This works too.

 

Building a power-monster like Kid Flash, or Rogue(!) involves sacrificing chars and skills in order to build up their powers. In effect, such characters are likely to have 150-175 points of powers, and only 25-50 points of chars and skills! This isn't actually a problem. They will suck a lot when things like END is involved, and they will have almost nothing going for them in terms of chars, apart, perhaps, from DEX and SPD, which are the characteristics essential to allowing them to be able to effectively use their powers.

 

They will, in short, be perfect for the "incredibly powerful younger sibling" role in the team. And if the whole team is like this, then you just explain that this is a team of 13 year olds...

 

Yes, you can do a whole lot of things with 200 point characters, if you think about it.

 

On the other hand, the "all powers" strategy doesn't work too well if you get too excited about things like maximum DCs, or characters only having a couple of powers, or all powers being limited. You can, of course, encourage modifications in this direction. For example, you could encourage power heavy characters to buy off a bunch of their less necessary multipower slots in favour of more skills and chars. Given their extreme weakness in this area, this might not be too difficult an ask.

 

Balancing all this, in other words, might be difficult. On the other hand, the more extreme characters are going to be highly limited in many situations - either in combat, for the skill mongers, or out of it, for the "full-power" characters.

 

And if the latter are a real problem, ban them from buying Reduced Endurance, and see how long the last throwing around 14 dice attacks at 7 END a piece, when they've only spent 40 points on their characteristics, mostly on DEX and SPD!

 

A final hint: you can get a lot of points back from buying your less "important" primary characteristics down from 10 to 8, or even less. And your GM can't really complain about your 13 year old not being as strong, strong-willed, or physically impressive as an adult, can they?

 

You can even use acne as a pretext for buying down your COM!

 

I was able to build somewhat decent homages of the original titans on 200 points (125+75), but I think they would be closer to the source material at 250 (150 + 100). Quickling (Kid Flash) & Sea Prince (Aqualad) were by far the hardest, Bluejay (robin), Magnificent Lass (Wonder Girl) and Bolt (Speedy) were easier (These have been actualy ranked from hardest to easiest)

[Steve]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

A section on teen supers might be used to expand a bit on discussing the Captain Marvel sorts of heroes and their possible plot complications, those whose powers are "Only in Hero ID". From the worlds of anime, Sailor Moon would be another example of this type of hero.

 

I also agree with earlier posters that a chapter on the life cycle of being a sidekick, from just starting out, to becoming a full partner, and finally to graduating to becoming a full-fledged hero should be a very important component of Teen Champions. The best examples are from the Teen Titans themselves: Dick Grayson (Robin I/Nightwing), Roy Harper (Speedy/Arsenal), Donna Troy (Wonder Girl/Troia), and Wally West (Kid Flash/Flash III). A look at things from the mentor's POV is also important. Why did this older hero take on a sidekick? What is their relationship like? How does the sidekick feel about their mentor?

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

A section on teen supers might be used to expand a bit on discussing the Captain Marvel sorts of heroes and their possible plot complications, those whose powers are "Only in Hero ID". From the worlds of anime, Sailor Moon would be another example of this type of hero.

 

I also agree with earlier posters that a chapter on the life cycle of being a sidekick, from just starting out, to becoming a full partner, and finally to graduating to becoming a full-fledged hero should be a very important component of Teen Champions. The best examples are from the Teen Titans themselves: Dick Grayson (Robin I/Nightwing), Roy Harper (Speedy/Arsenal), Donna Troy (Wonder Girl/Troia), and Wally West (Kid Flash/Flash III). A look at things from the mentor's POV is also important. Why did this older hero take on a sidekick? What is their relationship like? How does the sidekick feel about their mentor?

 

To expand on this, a section on characters that are kids but don't look the part would be great (Think Prime of the Ultraverse, Captain Marvel & Family from DC, Rage from Marvel, to just name a few). Dealing with the ramifications of it and such (There is a great scene in PoS where Billy uses his powers to fool the school into thinking his father was aproving his absentees)

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

A section on young characters with power levels / point totals higher than those being discussed here. How to use them in actual Teen Champions campaigns, and how to use them in other campaigns. The implications and complications of characters with more power than maturity and/or experience. How does a character deal with mundane adults in positions of authority when he knows he could reduce them to ashes, or teleport them to the top of the school clocktower, or make them forget, or whatever? Is the abusive phys-ed teacher found turned to stone one morning?

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Points of clarification

 

 

I think it is important to note (for this discusion) that under teen champions in Champions it gives NO guidlines on point totals (but does suggest a POSSIBLE speed or AP cap). T

 

he only place it talks about points and teen champions game is under "Low Powered Super Hero", that many Low Powered games will be about teen characters (not necesarily that a lot of teen games will be low powered).

 

It also does not say that it should be 200, but again that many GM's will make Low Powered games 200

 

In otherwords: Many people are reading this backwards (Gm's will make it 200 points, Low powered games are Teen Champions Games, therefore 200 points for Teen Champions)

 

I would say that the default should be "Low Powered Super Hero" (150+100), but with notes on increasing this (To standard and High powered) and lowering it to as low as 150 points (100+50)

 

150=Power Pack

200=New Mutants (Starting point)

250=Teen Titans (Starting Point)

300=Teen Titans (after Dr. Light)

350=New Teen Titans (Raven's group)

[Chuckg]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

The New Warriors were also 350.

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

agreed

[ParitySoul]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I've done a bit of thinking about this and I think the teen-age super models break down into 3 archtypes:

 

Idealized Super Teens - Teen Titans TV show, the older Teen Titans comic book, goofy teen supershows, etc.

 

These type of games would revolve around more teen on teen interaction. Some nods to teen age life, but more about young characters kicking butt and saving the day. A LOT of Animes fall into this group.

 

Acadamy Super Teens - X-men, Hogwarts, New Teen Titans

 

Covered pretty well, but keep in mind the focus is on developing as a super and their choices and powers. Teens trying to be adults.

 

Urban Super Teens - New Warriors, Dark Hawk, Power Pack, Ultimate Spiderman

 

No real mentors to speak of. Trying to survive against vastly more powerful/experienced villians. Dealing with their powers with only themselvs and a select few to relate with.

 

A lot of Teen shows morph from one to another. Acadamy and Urban blend in a lot to each other.

[tm80401]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

A Vilians and Vigilantes Module IIRC...

 

Actually it had stats for Champions, Superworld, and V&V.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Humm...

 

1) At least one "magical girl" charater.

 

2) A powerful villian who is gathering up superpowered teens to act as solders in his army. (like Magneto's original Brotherhood, except the only teens in the group originaly were Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch)

 

3) A teen hero who dosen't appear to be a teen hero.

 

4) A villian who is, literly, a big bully. And can get even bigger.

 

5) A group of teen superheros who are out to make the city safe, and to have a good time doing it.

 

6) Places for teen superbeings in love to go to be...well, if not alone...

 

7) A teen supervillianess who's soul reasion for existance is to strike out at the 'pritty ones'.

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Starting point for my "Engleson Academy" game is 300.

 

Given that the "starting hero" level was bumped to 350, and that characters tend to be more expensive in FREd because of increased costs on some powers, and the borking of frameworks to make many previous characters require significantly higher point totals when converted, 300 made the most sense to me.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

A juvenile mage, such as a teenage version of Sakura Kinomoto (Card Captor Sakura), might be very interesting. the Harry potter cliches can be avoided very easily, and the fact that the character's teachers will be constantly trying to convince her "there's no such thing as magic" even as she spends her evenings facing down super-necromancers will get very annoying for her after a while.

 

And let's not forget all the fun that can be had by teenagers who stopped aging when they turned 16 -- two hundred years ago. having one of those in your school, because they can't convince the authorities they don;t belong there, can lead to interesting complications.

 

Another complication: the teenage super who has a very large fortune but who, because they haven't come of age, is not in control of their money. If they are orphans, their trustees might be trustworthy -- or they might be out to swindle her, or they might even be supervillaiins desperate for outright control of her money.

[assault]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

In otherwords: Many people are reading this backwards (Gm's will make it 200 points, Low powered games are Teen Champions Games, therefore 200 points for Teen Champions)

 

The 200 point figure comes from Champions Universe. It gives this as a suggestion for a Ravenswood Academy game.

 

Of course there's no reason why you can't build Teen Champions characters on any point total you care to mention. After all, it worked for Superboy.

 

Still, I personally like the lower totals. They make character building more of a challenge. But that's a general prejudice of mine.

 

Finally, on those occasions when I'm designing characters just for fun, I like to follow published guidelines, simply because they represent "impartial rules".

 

But that's just one of the minor games you can play with the Hero System.

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

IMO, this is great stuff. I hope the DoJ are still reading this thread.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

One of the things I honestly think needs to be covered is the differences between a teenager and an adult. A little research into the official word on adolescent psychology would not be out of line here. An adolescent is neither a child or an adult, they are an uneasy balance between the two of them.

 

Some notes on high schools may also not be out of line here either. Especially on the sociology of high schools. A lot of a Teen Champions campaign may be set at a school, and it's useful to go over what these things were like. Our memories are not always accurate on these things.

 

The legal status of adolescents should also be covered in this work as well, because obviously that is going to have a role in the campaign.

 

The second thing to cover is the range of teenage origins and character types. This is not always the same as the regular adult character types. These are (but are not limited to):

 

Teenager suffers accident (Peter Parker being the classic)

Teenager given item/suit of power by some outside party (magical girls are a subset)

Teenager whose power flares up (New Mutants, Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Teenager chosen by hero to be sidekick (Robin)

Teenager who turns out to be second (or even Nth) generation hero

 

The legacy origin should probably warrant a few paragraphs on its own, a discussion of what the implications are of being a second generation (or even higher generation hero) and the issues that can result from it.

 

The magical girl character, being such a strong genre should have a few comments about it as well, I think. A discussion of what features are found there. There's a lot of stuff on the Net discussing the genre in general that's pretty useful there.

 

Power types and power evolution needs to be covered. Teenage superheroes are sometimes a little different in their power usage than regular superheroes. For that matter, their power evolution is often a visible part of the campaign. There are two distinct types of evolution that I know of:

 

Weak but growing by challenge: the hero starts off with one power and then slowly develops new ones, often in a climatic battle.

Powerful but raw: This the hero who has a lot of raw power but they have serious control issues. They aren't always able to summon it up when needed.

 

There should also be a discussion of the DNPCs, Contacts and other resources available to the teenage superhero. The most relevent DNPCs are:

 

Parents/Guardians

Mentor <- very typical special recurring character

Best friend

Girlfriend/boyfriend

 

Discussions of other limitations such as Secret ID (very common) and Public ID (pretty rare) as well as others needs to be gone into.

 

Moving on, we go on to the various types of superhero teams. I can only think of three types of teams:

 

Teenagers share accident/incident that gives them powers (Power Rangers, Power Pack)

Teenagers are all mutants/whatever (New Mutants, Generation X)

Teenagers all are sidekicks/legacies (Teen Titans, Young Justice)

 

The "superhero school" also needs to be discussed. Powers can have an impact on every aspect of the school (what happens when fights break out among the kids? what if a telepath uses their powers to cheat?).

 

Teen supervillains also need to be discussed. Their origins and motivations as well. It can be linked into the above discussion or it can be put in a section all its own. They're certainly one of the elements to be discussed in a Teen Champions campaign in the antagonist section.

 

Am I missing anything?

[BlackSword]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

You can have lower point totals, but still keep high active points. A common theme in Teen superheroes is the teen who is as powerful as an adult superhuman, but lacking control or having more limited powers.