Dealing with Invisible Heroes

[largosama]

Hey guys, one of the possible characters that one of my players will be creating is going to be a guy who will be invisible to sight, sound, smell, psychic abilities, etc... I'm a bit worried that a character like this could destroy plots. I could see a constant, "I go behind him and snap his neck" or something to that extent (maybe not a kill, but a defeat for the villain). If possible, I'd rather not disallow what a player wants to play but I also don't want to cheese the game and have to have major villain have the ability to sense him.

 

We haven't talked about disadvantages yet, so that's still up in there air, but there's no guarantee that he will take power related disadvantages.

 

Anyway, what are your suggestions on what I should do?

[John Desmarais]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Hey guys, one of the possible characters that one of my players will be creating is going to be a guy who will be invisible to sight, sound, smell, psychic abilities, etc... I'm a bit worried that a character like this could destroy plots. I could see a constant, "I go behind him and snap his neck" or something to that extent (maybe not a kill, but a defeat for the villain). If possible, I'd rather not disallow what a player wants to play but I also don't want to cheese the game and have to have major villain have the ability to sense him.

 

We haven't talked about disadvantages yet, so that's still up in there air, but there's no guarantee that he will take power related disadvantages.

 

Anyway, what are your suggestions on what I should do?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the rationale (special effect) for the character being Invisible, Silent, Odorless, and Physically null? This bit of information may make it easier for folks to come up solutions to your quandry.

 

John Desmarais

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Just out of curiosity, what is the rationale (special effect) for the character being Invisible, Silent, Odorless, and Physically null? This bit of information may make it easier for folks to come up solutions to your quandry.

 

John Desmarais

 

I believe it was one of those 'He was a loner in life and no one ever paid any attention to him therefore no one can notice him now even if they wanted to (unless he absolutely wants you to as far as I can tell)' kind of things

 

-Kevin

[ghost-angel]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Well, I'm speaking from experience here .. one of my characters is Invisible to it all. Everything. Makes for fun combat as a sniper.

 

Except touch. I left that out because it'd be no fun.

 

Here's some of the things my GM has used against me:

 

Explosive Paint Rounds. Nothing like an area of effect gob of safety orange covering the battlefield.

 

Grenades and other explosives. These proved to be incredibly useful against my character.

 

for non combat effects.. Pressue Plates work wonders, so does soft ground.

 

Also, unless he has a Naked IPE Advantage or all his attacks are IPE, his weapons are still visible, use is against him. One scene had my character using an IR Scope at night on a target .. well, the targets buddies were picking up the scopes signatures on their sensors, I remember investing a bit of time in learning to shoot in the dark by iron sights alone. The character is now a dead-ringer of a shot as they actually have an aversion to most technology (flash suppressors and silencers are my friend otoh).

 

On the other hand, he spent quite a few points to become that level of a non-target... he should get away with some things with some regularity.

[Supreme]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

I believe it was one of those 'He was a loner in life and no one ever paid any attention to him therefore no one can notice him now even if they wanted to (unless he absolutely wants you to as far as I can tell)' kind of things

 

-Kevin

In other words, Marcie from "Buffy." OK. First of all, never let a player buy invisibility versus everything (is that even possible). Second, the master villain(s) of the game, must have a sense to detect this person. Third, introduce a few more villains with either enhanced senses to either detect the character, or warn of his presense (people can still shoot "blind" and get him, especially if they spread their autofire attacks, or use AE). Fourth, keep in mind the things that still make characters like that detectable to normal senses: foot prints left behind, suddenly unconscious villains, attacks not bought with invisible power effects (a character with invisibility to all hearing should still make noise when they punch someone), etc.

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Well, I'm speaking from experience here .. one of my characters is Invisible to it all. Everything. Makes for fun combat as a sniper.

 

Except touch. I left that out because it'd be no fun.

 

Here's some of the things my GM has used against me:

 

Explosive Paint Rounds. Nothing like an area of effect gob of safety orange covering the battlefield.

 

Grenades and other explosives. These proved to be incredibly useful against my character.

 

for non combat effects.. Pressue Plates work wonders, so does soft ground.

 

Also, unless he has a Naked IPE Advantage or all his attacks are IPE, his weapons are still visible, use is against him. One scene had my character using an IR Scope at night on a target .. well, the targets buddies were picking up the scopes signatures on their sensors, I remember investing a bit of time in learning to shoot in the dark by iron sights alone. The character is now a dead-ringer of a shot as they actually have an aversion to most technology (flash suppressors and silencers are my friend otoh).

 

On the other hand, he spent quite a few points to become that level of a non-target... he should get away with some things with some regularity.

 

I'm trying to be as open minded as possible and of course his power should be able to be used with some regularity, but I'm just worried that due to the fact that his ability will make *no one* notice him unless he wants them to....... hmmmm... well, it wouldn't really make any sense (even in game land!) to have someone attacking you in melee and not noticing that they are there. So, maybe I'll get the character visible after the first hit.

 

Hmmm... more thinking... after the character becomes 'visible' to a person, he is visible to them forever more or at least only invisible in sight... possibilities...

 

-Kevin

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

You don't have to worry about making him visible after the first attack (a al D&D Invisibility spell). He's made an attack with a visible effect (well, audible and tactile in this case). If the person he attacked is still conscious, he then has a very good idea where the invisible guy is, and can make an attack roll (with penalties, but it's a start). The target knows he's there ... still can't see him, but he's there.

 

This is going to be a PHENOMENALLY EXPENSIVE power; it's going to eat up a lot of points he might otherwise need for defenses or movement. People with Area Effect attacks will probably work him over bad. And make sure he remembers the Endurance cost on it!

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

You don't have to worry about making him visible after the first attack (a al D&D Invisibility spell). He's made an attack with a visible effect (well, audible and tactile in this case). If the person he attacked is still conscious, he then has a very good idea where the invisible guy is, and can make an attack roll (with penalties, but it's a start). The target knows he's there ... still can't see him, but he's there.

 

This is going to be a PHENOMENALLY EXPENSIVE power; it's going to eat up a lot of points he might otherwise need for defenses or movement. People with Area Effect attacks will probably work him over bad. And make sure he remembers the Endurance cost on it!

 

Hmmm... hey, let's build it! How would you put together a power where a guy is invisible to everything (touch, sight, smell, taste, sound, psychic, astral, etc)

[Fireg0lem]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

If you're looking for a non-cheesy way to deal with it, instead of giving random people "detect Mr. Invisible" powers, consider having power-draining effects for when that needs to come up - so he won't feel like he's being picked on, since the drainer can also target other party members.

 

If you need to have people detect him, don't just tack it on at random - make them "specialists" in super-senses. The All-Seeing Eye vs. The Invisible Man is far more fun than The Unstoppable Force (who just happens to be able to see The Invisible Man) and The Invisible Man.

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

If you're looking for a non-cheesy way to deal with it, instead of giving random people "detect Mr. Invisible" powers, consider having power-draining effects for when that needs to come up - so he won't feel like he's being picked on, since the drainer can also target other party members.

 

If you need to have people detect him, don't just tack it on at random - make them "specialists" in super-senses. The All-Seeing Eye vs. The Invisible Man is far more fun than The Unstoppable Force (who just happens to be able to see The Invisible Man) and The Invisible Man.

 

Heh... the player using this character isn't a bad roleplayer at all and he is very reasonable...... and he's a comic book nut... in passing I brought giving him an archenemy who isn't all that powerful, but he always knows where that hero is at all times. He started bitching about the fact that it goes against the concept of his character... *sigh*

[ghost-angel]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Invisibility: Hearing Grp, Sight Grp, Radio Grp, Mental Grp, Detects, Danger Sense, Combat Sense, Smell/Taste Grp, Spatial Awareness (not Touch based SA), No Frindge: 64pts

With: 0 END = 96pts

With: 0 END/Persistant: 128pts

 

If you have an Active Point cap in the game there is a chance one or more of those constructs will exceed it. Don't let them under any circumstances.

 

Everything but touch related sense will affect them .. Spatial Awareness defined as "sonar" requires hearing normally and will fail, Spatial Awareness defined as a form of TK will work as they "feel" the character. They will leave footprints, activate weight sensors, get smacked by AoE attacks and effects.

 

This is powerful, but it can be fun in handled properly. The player should resist the urge to go with massive defenses. I think it works in the game I'm in because almost every paranormal is a "one trick pony" kind of character - they have one power that they do really well, mine is essentially to become a Ghost.

 

They shouldn't even be allowed to purchase Inisibility to Touch, that's what Desol is for and they shouldn't be allowed to have Desol if they are invisible to this level.

 

The downside to this kind of Inivis is interaction .. they can't interact with the world unless they stop to write notes a lot (make the player do this!). No talking, nothing .. imagine trying to order lunch in this state. Make it clear that it's a bad idea to have this on all the time... really clear.

[largosama]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

 

They shouldn't even be allowed to purchase Inisibility to Touch, that's what Desol is for and they shouldn't be allowed to have Desol if they are invisible to this level.

 

The downside to this kind of Inivis is interaction .. they can't interact with the world unless they stop to write notes a lot (make the player do this!). No talking, nothing .. imagine trying to order lunch in this state. Make it clear that it's a bad idea to have this on all the time... really clear.

 

Those both are really good points. Not to mention that we haven't determined whether or not things like his money would be invisible too which if it is would mean that he's been stealing his whole life.

[devlin1]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Have you read or seen Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman? It's full of characters who most of us "just don't notice," but who can force themselves to be noticed, however temporarily. If it were my game, I'd say that attacking someone is forcing them to notice you.

 

Ignored: Invisibility to Sight, Mental, Hearing, Smell/Taste and Touch Groups , No Fringe, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (100 Active Points); Visible/Audible/etc. After/While Attacking (-3/4) Real Cost: 57

 

Notice all the things he's still visible to: radar, Combat Sense, Danger Sense, Spatial Awareness....

 

Edit: I figured someone'd beat me to it. I concur on the Invis. to Touch, but I included it here just for the sake of completism.

[devlin1]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Those both are really good points. Not to mention that we haven't determined whether or not things like his money would be invisible too which if it is would mean that he's been stealing his whole life.

IMO, given the (admittedly sketchy) background you provided, I'd say he's not technically "invisible" at all-- he's just not noticed. He can make himself noticed when he wants to, but most of the time, he doesn't feel like doing it. Thus, if he wants to buy a ham sandwich, he takes out the money, gets in the shopkeeper's face, and is noticed. It doesn't make any sense that his money or any of his possessions would actually be literally invisible, but it does make sense, if he's been ignored his whole life, that he's gotten good at not being noticed (just going with the flow, after all).

[SuperPheemy]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Invisibility: Hearing Grp, Sight Grp, Radio Grp, Mental Grp, Detects, Danger Sense, Combat Sense, Smell/Taste Grp, Spatial Awareness (not Touch based SA), No Frindge: 64pts

With: 0 END = 96pts

With: 0 END/Persistant: 128pts

 

If you have an Active Point cap in the game there is a chance one or more of those constructs will exceed it. Don't let them under any circumstances.

 

If you get lost in the AP costs, think about this,

 

64 AP = 13DC (or there-bouts). Which is ok in my book for a primary superpower in a 350 point game. At this point, the character is spending 6 END per phase to be "Nowhere Man".

 

96 AP = 19DC. Not ok for a 350 point game as presented, I'd allow it with some MAJOR limitations (like a Side-Effect), and if there is an exciting and well-thought rationale for the character.

 

128 AP = 26DC. At 350 points, this is not only the character's primary superpower, but it is the sole dimension of the one-dimensional character. Ask yourself the following question when reviewing this power; "Would I let a character built around a 8 1/2 d6 Killing attack in my game?"

[SirViss]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

You have to also concider the problems that he could give to the rest of the team. If they don't know where he is, they might not use some of their area effect attacks for fear of hitting him.

 

That is a question: can he become visible selectively. Meaning, can he pick and choose who he is visible to?

 

And if he says: "I keep a tracking device so my team mates know where I am", then he wouldn't be invisible to everything anymore, will he?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

I'm trying to be as open minded as possible and of course his power should be able to be used with some regularity, but I'm just worried that due to the fact that his ability will make *no one* notice him unless he wants them to....... hmmmm... well, it wouldn't really make any sense (even in game land!) to have someone attacking you in melee and not noticing that they are there. So, maybe I'll get the character visible after the first hit.

 

Hmmm... more thinking... after the character becomes 'visible' to a person, he is visible to them forever more or at least only invisible in sight... possibilities...

 

-Kevin

Wait a sec -- Invis doesnt make people and technology not notice the character -- it blocks their ability to sense sensory data generated by the character. If the character is having an effect on the environment (including other people) that is detectible.

 

 

If the character wants a power that affects minds, like WW Obfuscate so that while he is there people _ignore him_ then you can still do that w/ Invis, but lims like "only vs organic creatures" or even RSR: Opposed EGO Roll should be applied, or alternately a 0 end contin uncontrolled cumulative AoE Mind Control "You forget having seen me previously and you dont see me now" vs Human and Animal classes of minds.

[NecroBob]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

The arch rival, a person that has a similar backstory as his. They both exist in the same psuedo null, so they can see each other. Since the players can't really tell one inviso man from another they'll have a heck of a time if they bump into the enemy and think he's a friend.

 

Villians with damage shields are also quite nasty all around, if the effect isn't visible the hero will have to think next time he decides to go hand to hand with someone.

[mr_azrad]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Kinda of reminds me of the "somebody else's problem field" from the hitchhikers guide.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Hmm...reminds me of the time Hellcat and I were "playing", she being all invisible and all....a bag of flour from the kitchen worked quite nicely...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

I went over a lot of my notes from the campaign (with intent to post onto the web eventually.... after edited for spelling) and looked for some of the problems that were caused by my characters invisibility..

 

One, things are interested in the character, very big powerful things like this trick and want to know how it works. Chthulhu thinks it would make a great party-gag at the next Great Old Ones Convention......

 

Two, teammate can't used area of effect tactics in combat if I engage in melee or come in close from range for fear of hitting the character. She has no defenses beyond being "The non target", a hit really hurts. The concept behind my idea was "If they don't know to shoot at me, how can they hit me?" .. works mostly. The first few combats were fun:

 

GM: they attack you.

Me: No they don't. I'm invisible.

GM: I hate you.

 

that happened several times...

 

Communication ..the character can go scouting ahead and follow people... but can't communicate back any information. Unless he uses a radio - but then the radio isn't invisible is it? At least, not if the teammates want to hear the message. This is true for most any other form of communication.

 

IPE ... gets expensive quick when bought on all the other powers, he will be less effective because of it sometimes. IPE to everything doubles the cost of any power.

 

What if it's Persistent and you do manage to knock him out? or worse yet if he takes enough body so he's in danger of bleeding to death? If he's invisible to it all his teamates can't find him either. Bad times ahead.

 

Your team will start to dislike you if the enemy always brings along grenades, RPGs, shells and bombs to get Mr Invis. - especially if they're worried about collateral damage and/or innocent bystanders.

[Blue]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Don't senses purchased as not belonging to a "sense group" or bought as "unsual" require you to make special accomodations with invisibility?

[assault]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

The main thing to remember with any character is to build your campaign around them.

 

In particular, that means that your characters' powers, and Hunteds, are going to be right at the heart of your scenario design.

 

(That also means, incidentally, that you probably shouldn't have too many players, because otherwise your world is going to be pulled in too many different directions.)

 

So, how do you build your world around an invisible character?

 

Well, as it happens, the Invisible Man TV series addressed a lot of these questions a couple of years back. A quick session with a Search Engine should provide you with lots of neat stuff.

 

Failing that, you should consider what invisibility actually allows the character to do.

 

In my opinion, its effects can be divided between (i) combat effects, and (ii) plot effects.

 

Combat effects aren't really a problem - either people can see him or they can't. You have the ability to tweak situations to allow people to see him who otherwise couldn't.

 

Plot effects are, in my experience, more difficult to deal with. My best advice is to consider invisibility are being just another way of achieving character goals. An invisible character can achieve a lot in terms of intrusion, shadowing and eavesdropping - but so can a character with an appropriate set of skills, or a bug and/or tracking device. So, if your scenario can handle the latter, it can probably handle Invisible Guy.

 

One final thing to remember: secret labs and so on are usually concealed inside secure buildings. Getting inside such buildings is one of the things Invisible Guy is good at. Getting out again is another question.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Invisibility: Hearing Grp' date=' Sight Grp, Radio Grp, Mental Grp, [u']Detects[/u], Danger Sense, Combat Sense, Smell/Taste Grp, Spatial Awareness (not Touch based SA), No Frindge: 64pts

 

I don't think you can do this...buy a blanket "Invisible to Detects". Detects are neither a sense group nor are they a specific sense themselves (as are Danger Sense and Combat Sense, for example).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dealing with Invisible Heroes

 

Don't senses purchased as not belonging to a "sense group" or bought as "unsual" require you to make special accomodations with invisibility?

Yep. Someone must buy Invisibility Specifically against them.