JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 The overall quality of opponents published in the official 5E supplements is higher than has ever been the case in previous editions of the game. Sure, there are a few clunkers - Nebula (is that her name, out of CK&C, the alien hunter gal?) is a snore, and I've never found the Monster even the smallest bit interesting - but overall, they're quite good. Many of really great ones are old, familiar foes, of course, but in some case - most notably Dr. Destroyer - they now work much better than they ever have. The venerable old-timers are also joined by some great, new additions. Many know I'm fond of Foxbat, of course, but I like a lot of the villains. Some of my favorites include: Dr Destroyer - Of course. Great master villain... finally. Menton - Just incredibly powerful even as-is, and if you take the idea presented in his write-up, that of rebuilding his powers as a VPP, he becomes even more dangerous. Eurostar - Long-time favorites. Many, many heroes from past campaigns have cringed in fear at the very name once they'd fought Eurostar, and the current version has the potential to extend that proud tradition. V'Han - I'm not impressed with the write-ups of her troops, but I've fixed that in my campaign. Those guys are just the cannon-fodder, the advance scouts and the decoys - the ones you send out to feel out the enemy. Hell, in my campaign, her entire invasion attempt served that purpose. Now she has the measure of her potential opposition, knows more about who and what to plan for/around and take out first. Soon. Even though those guys are more or less extradimensional equivalents of Gomer Pyle, the Empress' own write-up is impressive. Firewing - Great cosmic-slugfest opponent. Tough but manageable, lots of personality, easy motivations to work into stories. Bulldozer - The write-up still makes me laugh. Not really a danger, but probably my favorite of the spudge villains for sheer entertainment value alone. Black Paladin - Always a great character. I was glad to see him make the cut for 5E. Anyone who has the PDF published adventure featuring him - is it worth it? I've been tempted... Teleios - Simply a great concept, through and through. I love this guy. Viperia - O..M.. G.... *That* is how to do a demigod(dess) brick villain. Cool beyond words! Skarn the Shaper - Tyrannon gets all the press, but I think Skarn is the cream as far as the bad-guys from THE MYSTIC WORLD go. He and the progeny and underlings are just plain *full* of potential. Anyhow, those are a handfull of my favorites. I'm wondering what published bad guys some of y'all particularly like to run (when you're GMing) or fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Takofanes is always a favorite. Nothing like Pure Evil to face the heroes. The Dragon as well, more as threat and concept than adversary. The new Viper is much better, and the new Demon looks to be fantastic. The Viperia-Gravitar potential relationship is great fun. The newest version of Menton is excellent. Shades of black is first rate; try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains I disagree with my DM. *looks for falling rock*. Skarn is only the second-best villain from 'Mystic World'. The 5e version of the Dragon is just the coolest damn thing I have *EVER* seen from Hero. Although I am really loving the 5e version of the Big D. We're talking 'Darkseid Is." levels of menace there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Skarn is only the second-best villain from 'Mystic World'. The 5e version of the Dragon is just the coolest damn thing I have *EVER* seen from Hero. Hard to argue this, especially since the whole section about the Dragon is incredibly written and conceptualized, standing out even compared to the overall high quality of MYSTIC WORLD. At the same time, the Dragon is more of the "threat behind the scenes" sort of foe - the underlying motivator - than a direct-opponent sort of villain. One could easily do a whole campaign centered around the Dragon,without even directly encountering it. And such a campaign could well rock, completely. But... ... there's also something to be said about a foe with which one can get down and dirty. One can do that with Gravitar, or Dr. Destroyer, or Skarn. Actually trying to fight the Dragon - assuming a rare bunch of characters for whom such things are even remotely possible - is not likely to give the same results, or at least not in so satisfying a form. The Dragon is probably the best-realized epic concept/theme introduced in 5E to date... but much as I like big-picture stories, I also like slugfests, so I personally lean toward the guys with whom one can do those and have it be entertaining. So, on that basis, while I respect the Dragon as a concept and plan to use it, I actually *like* Skarn more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Hard to argue this, especially since the whole section about the Dragon is incredibly written and conceptualize, standing out even compared to teh overall high quality of MYSTIC WORLD. At the same time, the Dragon is more of the "threat behind the scenes" sort of foe - the underlying motivator - than a direct-opponent sort of villain. One could easily do a whole campaign centered around the Dragon,without even directly encountering it. And such a campaign could well rock, completely. But... ... there's also something to be said about a foe with which one can get down and dirty. One can do that with Gravitar, or Dr. Destroyer, or Skarn. Actually trying to fight the Dragon - assuming a rare bunch of characters for whom such things are even remotely possible - is not likely to give the same results, or at least not in so satisfying a form. The Dragon is probably the best-realized epic concept/theme introduced in 5E to date... but much as I like big-picture stories, I also like slugfests, so I personally lean toward the guys with whom one can do those and have it be entertaining. So, on that basis, while I respect the Dragon as a concept and plan to use it, I actually *like* Skarn more. Well said. Skarn has that wonderful Norse / House of Amber feeling. Your PCs could battle or befriend his warrior son, be betrayed by his Loki-esque sorcerer son, romance and oppose his loyal "good" daughter ... tons of plot hooks for direct interaction. The Dragon is a wonderful foe to have Out There, and some of the plot hooks could make for great gaming (redeaming an aging Golden Age hero now driven to the edge of despair, for he himself is one chain of the Dragon). Still, I can't see GMing a campaign where the characters directly interact with the Dragon. Fighting one of his manifestations as the climax of a long series of adventures on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Shades of Black definitely cranked my opinion of the Black Paladin way up. It gives him an aura of menace I've seen few villains achieve. A true shame that Allen Thomas doesn't get to write adventures more frequently. I used to use Bulldozer and Blowtorch as pushover villains. Blowtorch is now deadly and Bulldozer is competent. Foxbat remains a player favorite, and one they want to trash. Viperia, on the other hand, virtually defines 'one man wrecking crew' in my mind, while I fear Dr. Destroyer is too deadly for me to wield effectively against my players. I can't say I've warmed up to Thunderbird, though he looks interesting enough. Black Harlequin still hasn't grabbed me, though the players find him interesting enough to ask for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains That's two votes for SHADES OF BLACK. When I have a bit of spare cash, I'll have to check that one out. Thunderbird - Eh, he's CU's Punisher. I guess he has his place, but he doesn't really inspire a lot of story ideas for the sorts of campaigns I tend to prefer... and if I want to explore the lethal-vigilante theme, I'm likely to go with someone a lot nuttier than TBird anyhow. I forgot to mention Gravitar the first time around. Great character, and well-crafted in game terms. Those in my current campaign have probably figured out I'm rather fond of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Takofanes is always a favorite. Nothing like Pure Evil to face the heroes. The Dragon as well, more as threat and concept than adversary. The new Viper is much better, and the new Demon looks to be fantastic. The Viperia-Gravitar potential relationship is great fun. The newest version of Menton is excellent. Shades of black is first rate; try it. I've seen a couple posts where 'The Dragon' is mentioned but it's certainly not in CKC. Where is he/it mentioned or published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains I've seen a couple posts where 'The Dragon' is mentioned but it's certainly not in CKC. Where is he/it mentioned or published? THE MYSTIC WORLD. The Dragon is a very, very major - and incredibly cool - concept, discussed in great detail in TMW. There is a lot more to the Dragon than we'd been led to believe via the few mentions planted here and there in earlier books. THE MYSTIC WORLD is a great book overall (though the spell builds in the "Grimoire" section were a bit on the weak side, as they were mostly pretty obvious and not really that inventive), and the Dragon is one of the book's best parts. If you're the least bit interested in mystical and extradimensional stuff, not to mention high-end conceptual storytelling, I can't recommend MYSTIC WORLD highly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains That's two votes for SHADES OF BLACK. When I have a bit of spare cash, I'll have to check that one out. I'll third it; it's a great adventure that really gives BP depth. back on topic though... ............ Some that instantly come to mind for me: Out of the Masterminds/Heavy Hitters... I like Istvatha V'han, and want to use her more. Takofanes gave me doubts, but he's a great 'behind the scenes bogey man'. Teleios is already very hated in my groups Out of teams? GRAB is a lot of fun. Their no killing attitude can be a relief to run. On the other hand, The Crowns of Krim have become 'the recurring mystic bad team' in my campaigns. Solos... The Black Paladin, especially after 'Shades of Black' added even more flavor to him. Foxbat- Nuf said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains A true shame that Allen Thomas doesn't get to write adventures more frequently. Well, he's sole author or co-author on every single adventure book we've published. I don't see how much more we can use him than that. If adventures sold better, we'd do more -- but they don't, so we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Sure' date=' there are a few clunkers - Nebula (is that her name, out of CK&C, the alien hunter gal?) is a snore[/quote'] I disagree. She's got enough interesting background that I'm using her as one of the foundations of my campaign. The current PCs gathered together when Champions' HQ disappeared and a bunch of supervillains appeared in the hemishperical crater where it had been. It turns out, Nebula was at Champs HQ when there was some sort of accident, sending the Champions (and Nebula) to Duress, her dimensional of eternal punishment, and bringing back a bunch of the villains she'd trapped. The PCs have been trying for months to find a way to get to the Duress dimension and return safely with the Champions. (Witchcraft is the love interest of the PC wizard.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Well' date=' he's sole author or co-author on every single adventure book we've published. I don't see how much more we can use him than that. If adventures sold better, we'd do more -- but they don't, so we don't.[/quote'] Even using the PDF format, they aren't cutting it sales-wise? I'm sorry to hear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains I disagree. She's got enough interesting background that I'm using her as one of the foundations of my campaign. It's cool to hear someone found a good story use for her - though even here, it sounds like her use was more as a McGuffin/plot element than as a character, per se. I've personally never found her particularly interesting, but as with most things, individual mileage may vary. I'm guessing even the Monster has some die-hard fans out there, if only because he/it has appeared in every consecutive edition of the game since he/it was first published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpira Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains It's cool to hear someone found a good story use for her - though even here, it sounds like her use was more as a McGuffin/plot element than as a character, per se. I've personally never found her particularly interesting, but as with most things, individual mileage may vary. I'm guessing even the Monster has some die-hard fans out there, if only because he/it has appeared in every consecutive edition of the game since he/it was first published. My girlfriend had picked her as a hunted and I almost moaned aloud in pain. I was plotting ideas for her introduction in the game that did not revolve around escape from Duress and frankly most of them resulted in my having to totally change the character as written (which is ok). I am a fan of Black Paladin and the mod is top notch. The Dragon was put to immediate use in my game as I was already playing around with a storyline about the Tablet of Destiny and Tiamat before I heard about their inclusion in Mystic World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Eh, I like Nebula. She has lots of "culture clash" potential, IMHO. Then again, I'm a sucker for grey villains. Along those lines: how can you forget Cateran?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Along those lines: how can you forget Cateran?? Another one with very good plot hook potential. I used her in one campaign where the players had to find a way to defeat a snake goddess, and Cateran was the only available person who'd fought her and survived, over 170 years before ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted September 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains how can you forget Cateran?? Cateran's a great character. So far in my campaign, she's been more a neutral than an opponent. Only time will tell whether that changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Cateran's a great character. So far in my campaign' date=' she's been more a neutral than an opponent. Only time will tell whether that changes. [/quote'] Well, yeah, thats half the fun of grey villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcholmes Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains As a concept, I'm a fan of the 4th-ed punk villain group from _Road Kill_. I think their powers are a bit boring, but I think they're much more interesting than people who are just "evil". They want to rid the world of lame boy bands. That's inspired. In 5th-ed, I like Captain Chronos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caris Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Are we limited to 5E? If we aren't than my favorite is still the Criminal Legion Of Whacky Non-conformists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Armadillo - I don't remember if he has been published for 5th Edition. I like powered armor characters. His tunneling ability was just wonderful. He wasn't/isn't a really powerful villian but he used to drive my group crazy whenever they'd encounter him. They'd beat an entire group of villians but could never catch the Armadillo. He'd just tunnel away and collapse the tunnel behind him. None of them had the required powers to stop his eacapes, it drove them nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Armadillo is in CKC, IIRC. Other good published villains include most of the ones from Galactic Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Most. Arcane is a dillwad. Not /quite/ as bad as the guys from European Enemies, but he's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Re: Favorite Published Villains Most. Arcane is a dillwad. Not /quite/ as bad as the guys from European Enemies' date=' but he's close.[/quote'] I know I'm going to regret asking this, but how do you figure he's that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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