Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

[ParitySoul]

I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle. I so want to run sci-fi games. I want to do something other than Star Wars...but it's like everyone has D&D on the brain.

 

Any suggestions on how to grow the love for this genre? I would love to see Star Hero's print run back up to full pace. But alas.

[shem_whistler]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Well I love babylon 5, and I think that you could sell it as Dark Champions in space, and given the popularity of Dark Champions at the moment, you could try to hang on it's coat tails.

[OddHat]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Hot naked space chix.

 

If you have female or gay players, hot naked space dudes.

[Dog Soldier]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Hot naked space chix.

 

If you have female or gay players, hot naked space dudes.

 

That only works in LARP and very seldom even then

[travellerne]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

I feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle. I so want to run sci-fi games ... but it's like everyone has D&D on the brain.

 

Any suggestions on how to grow the love for this genre?

 

I can really relate. I always preferred

Traveller over D&D and still prefer science fiction over fantasy and other genres.

 

A number of gamers have told me that there are two things going against sci-fi (and I tend to agree with them). First, sci-fi isnot as familiar a setting. Most people can imagine a sword, a horse, have seen pictures of medieval armor and know how big England is. But most people haven't experienced real spaceships worthy of a sci-fi story, used solar power, fixed an electronic circuit or have a concept of a light-minute (let alone a light-year). Second, is that, yes, D&D and D20 are a very common and popular system.

 

What can you do? Start a game and run it regardless of how many show up. There are still enough sci-fi gamers out there to suppport Star Hero games. You might want to:

-have it at a regular time and place

-advertise it

-run the game even when a some people can't make it (but let people know how you handle the missing character)

-make the plot interesting, exciting and accessible (that is comprehenable) to the average player

 

Eventually you'll get a core of loyal sci-fi players and the game will grow.

 

TNE

[Aroooo]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

I don't think sci-fi is much diffferent than any other genre when it comes to getting players interested... Its all about having a good story, a fun 'universe' to play in, and a good GM. I think one of the things that makes fantasy more popular than most other genres (from an rpg point of view) is magic. I've found that a lot of players want to be some sort of magic user in a fantasy setting. In sci-fi, I'm always asked if they can play a psi character.

 

Aroooo

[Steve Long]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

A number of gamers have told me that there are two things going against sci-fi (and I tend to agree with them). First, sci-fi isnot as familiar a setting. Most people can imagine a sword, a horse, have seen pictures of medieval armor and know how big England is. But most people haven't experienced real spaceships worthy of a sci-fi story, used solar power, fixed an electronic circuit or have a concept of a light-minute (let alone a light-year). Second, is that, yes, D&D and D20 are a very common and popular system.

 

There's one other good reason: Science Fiction can vary wildly, whereas Fantasy tends to have certain "common elements" even in settings that otherwise differ greatly. For example, most Fantasy settings feature magic and low tech, and the vast majority of 'em have this vaguely "generic western Europe" sort of feel that people can identify with (as you mention above). There's a high "comfort level" shifting from one Fantasy setting to another.

 

That doesn't really hold true in Science Fiction. A tiny change in the technological paradigm, the speed of space travel, or many other factors can significantly distinguish one setting from another -- and if the setting has features or uses presumptions you don't like, the odds are you won't care for it. (Or, of equal importance from my perspective, buy it. )

 

For example, look at Star Trek, Star Wars, and B5. All are, to at least some degree, Space Opera. But the technology they use, the nature of the stories they tell, and many other factors are extremely different. It's much harder to take, say, a book written for a Trek RPG and use it in a Star Wars RPG than it is to take a book written for the Forgotten Realms and use it in Greyhawk, Ambrethel, or many other Fantasy settings.

 

This isn't to say that experienced GMs and gamers can't work around this -- obviously, they can. But it takes more effort, and that factors into the decision of whether to buy, run, play in, etc. an SF game. It's a dilemma those of use who'd like to publish more SF gaming material have talked to death, with no solution in sight.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Well, a person *could* run a sci-fi setting with magic mixed in, but its probably not a good idea until one has experience with "normal" sci-fi.

 

I think I agree with the sentiment, that alot of elements from Dark Champions can be applied to alot of sci-fi games ( especially grittier space opera ).

[shem_whistler]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

I was thinking about this again today as I am about to start running a B5 D20 game and I think there are 2 closely linked problems.

 

1) it is a shift from high fantasy powerful 'niche' characters/powers to generally lower power level, more skill based, less obvious character archetypes.

 

2) And one of the offshoots of this dawned on me this morning, it is harder to give PC's cool rewards. Where are the rewards in Star Trek? "I'm doing this for the good of man of course, I don't need paying?". So you get players saying "Where's my groovy +5 sword of megadeath vs anyone but me?"

 

The answer, well I don't actually have one, the best I can suggest is try and make sure the PC's all have a schtick. Let them choose an aspect and let them excel at it, this way everyone has a role again. If the PC wants to be good with Computers let them be great, reward 'him'with a super-duper AI tool that makes him better.

 

My 2 credits worth.

[Jhamin]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

 

The answer, well I don't actually have one, the best I can suggest is try and make sure the PC's all have a schtick. Let them choose an aspect and let them excel at it, this way everyone has a role again. If the PC wants to be good with Computers let them be great, reward 'him'with a super-duper AI tool that makes him better.

 

My 2 credits worth.

 

There was a rant I heard on a Cyberpunk forum many years ago that springs to mind (and sort of muddies the water, sorry).

 

"I used to think my netrunner was the most awesome hacker in existance, with my best that money can buy deck and the best illegal softare you can steal. My ICE-Breaker programs were the best you could get in or out of the military.

Then it occured to me that while I had a good skill level I had bought or stole all my stuff the same way a D&D character loots a +5 sword.

In the real world, that wouldn't make me a hacker, it would make me a script kiddie . The rules didn't allow for me to actually create this stuff.

 

I couldn't play anymore after that."

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

2) And one of the offshoots of this dawned on me this morning' date=' it is harder to give PC's cool rewards. Where are the rewards in Star Trek? "I'm doing this for the good of man of course, I don't need paying?". So you get players saying "Where's my groovy +5 sword of megadeath vs anyone but me?"[/quote']

There is a discussion over on the HERO System Discussion board called Fate Systems that might be useful for those games. It would give the players a way to get a bonus for combat without having it encased in an OAF.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Perhaps a system of "limited XP," with awards in XP that can only be spent in certain ways??

 

Alternatively, you could spruce things up a bit with usage of the superskill system.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Perhaps a system of "limited XP," with awards in XP that can only be spent in certain ways?? This could be used to let a character make or earn those cutting edge ICE-breakers, for example.

 

Alternatively, you could spruce things up a bit with usage of the superskill system and/or resource system, both from DC.

[Ulryk]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Any suggestions on how to grow the love for this genre?

 

Well I think the best way would be to tailor a one-shot adventure to the likes of the group, while showcasing the strengths of HERO.

 

If they are combat monsters, have SpecOps type adventure with plenty of high tech gadgets like thermal imaging to see through walls, and hover belts to scale the side of the building quickly, laser microphones to read the vibrations off the glass to gain info on what they are saying... all the way up to nano devices that allow you to 'phase alter' walls so they can pass right through, and mind scanners to see who is really the bad guy in the group of enemies. I'd also make sure to add in ambush combat where the PCs ambush the bad guys with sniper type head shots (something that is not so easy to do in D&D modern) anything SpecOps usually goes over big with combat types and gives you a chance to roll them into another type of play like investigation.

 

As far as investigative types, give them plenty of the hacking/data mining stuff. Play up the constructs that are built using the exact same system as the character generation. Even give them gadget pools and let them 'have at it' the freedom may intimidate them at first but any good investigator worth his salt would drool for a gadget pool in an RPG.

 

For roleplayers get involved in the stellar nobility that is so common in many sci-fi rpg's. the 'court intrigue' possible in space games is as detailed if not more than most D&D games. If you don't have nobility in your setting let them rub elbows with the corporate elite or leaders of powerful political entities.

 

For character developers, Hero is a pretty easy sell, you just have to pave the way for them a bit and build things for them. As they get used to it they will be detailing ther own characters in no time.

 

 

2) And one of the offshoots of this dawned on me this morning' date=' it is harder to give PC's cool rewards. Where are the rewards in Star Trek? "I'm doing this for the good of man of course, I don't need paying?". So you get players saying "Where's my groovy +5 sword of megadeath vs anyone but me?"[/quote']

 

That's pretty easy actually... p|-|47 |_3\/\/75 (cool toys) is much easier in a sci-fi game than in fantasy. Nothing is an artifact and can always break. (heh heh, the GM in me always laughs at this part)

 

A match grade firearm that gives +1 OCV, or restricted nano-bots that can effortlessly crack a mag-lock, a new 'tunable' IFF generator for your starship. Or a translation droid built by some megalomaniacal, parasite infested, bipolar kid that has 6 million forms of communication built into it.

 

Good luck to you though, Sci-Fi is one of the most exciting and rewarding ways of playing Hero. Don't let their trepidations make you lose out on this.

[UltraRob]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

If I might add my own 2 cents, in my experience I tend to find there are 2 approaches that work best for running Sci-Fi games...

 

1) Find out what the players most familiar/favorite SF-setting is and just run in that setting. I know many a HERO will feel limited by this, but the sad truth is that whatever their favorite SF paradigm is (Trek, Star Wars, Andromeda, Ghost in the Shell, maybe Gundam or Aliens, whatever) is what they're going to concieve and play the game as anyways! People conceptualize things in terms what they already know, it's their nature, if you're trying to get them into Sf gaming why not accept and exploit it? It's also a lot less work for the GM! I have literally had Trek campaigns up and running from an hour or so after I first mentioned the idea to my players. No offense to Steve Long or any SF-game writers but explaining the inns and outs of amost SF settings unless the players are really SF-literate aleady can be a long and boring chore sometimes. Heck, even the TV show thing doesn't always work, I tried running a Stargate campaign and my players (who don't watch the show) played is like they were in Vietnam and the universe was out to kill them so they shot everything in sight. They weren't fans, so they didn't understand that in the SG-1 setting, most aliens are neutral leaning towards friendly and there's a certain level of romantic adventure to the setting. I got so disgusted I canned the campaign after the first major adventure.

 

2) I find SF games work best for me as what I call "narrow" campaigns, where there's already a preplanned story and goal from the get-go. I have never managed to get a "freebooting travellers" game to work very well with any group (might just be my style, though), but the games I planned out with a start and finish always seem to go like wildfire. (They rarely end like I planned, mind you, but that's just the nature of GMing. At least it gives the players a clear goal to build their story on and they can work it from there.)

 

Rob

[arcady]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

Hot naked space chix.

 

If you have female or gay players, hot naked space dudes.

Well... women and gay men spend more time looking at and obsessing over attractive women than straight men do...

 

And look at Cosmo - cheesecake sells better to women than it does to men. Men have been trained to feel guilty over their natural attraction to the female form, but women have been trained to obsess over it.

 

By contrast, as children boys only want art with boys in it, and girls only want art with boys in it...

 

Psycho-analyze that if you want.

 

 

I'm not sure how you could get Star Hero to appeal more. Honestly not too many people do science fiction gaming. I suppose you could try to capture a license, but Hero has never done licenses.

 

A new setting book of some kind perhaps? One with a good dose of justified cheesecake in the art and text (trust me - put in holographic clothing as a fashion accessory in your setting and it will boost sales of the game add pleasure bots for even more. I'd bet you Neuromancer didn't become a hit because of the cyberspace, but because of the scene with the female assassin in the coffin-hotel. Likewise one of the sequel novels were he has a conversation with a naked teenager in orbit... fan service sells in the text).

 

Somehow, for Star Hero to do better, you have to convince people it's a better game system than something like d20 Future. Unfortunately d20 Future has a lot of well done unoffensive cheesecake art, as does d20 Modern - thus by default it will always be preferable in the market even if the actual game engine makes first edition Star Hero look like a masterpiece.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

 

2) And one of the offshoots of this dawned on me this morning, it is harder to give PC's cool rewards. Where are the rewards in Star Trek? "I'm doing this for the good of man of course, I don't need paying?". So you get players saying "Where's my groovy +5 sword of megadeath vs anyone but me?"

 

 

 

Oh, that can still be done in SciFi. In fact, it can be done worse in SciFi than in Fantasy.

Back when I used to play SpaceMaster, I was just getting out of my Monty Haul phase, but still occasionally going nuts with the treasure. Everyone in the game ended up with Plasma rifles and Power swords. Various types of Powered armor was had by all and the Telepathic member of the group had a crystal sword that enhanced his Telepathic abilities 4-fold.

Oh yeah, that sword was rude. Way worse than a +5 Sword of Megadeath. Imagine giving a D&D Mage a Sword of Sharpness (that he could wield effectively) that also increased his level for purposes of which spells and how many spells he could use.

 

Yeah, I didn't know what I was thinking.

 

A good way to bypass this though is to try and gather a group of Roleplayers together. You know, guys and gals that simply love to roleplay and care little for what treasure and rewards their characters get. I had a group like that a couple of years back (before I moved) and it was probably the best group I ever had. I didn't need to give these guys super powerful weapons and lots of treasure. Their characters generaly adventured for the fun of it, or for some esoteric personal goal. Roleplaying was at an all-time high. These guys were happy if their character either simply got to kick ass, or got a great roleplaying scene that entertained everyone that evening.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

I ran a Traveller game when I was in high school, about twenty years ago . Anyway, I was probably not the best GM, but I ran my game as more cinematic action adventure/Space Opera. I gave the playesr monetary rewards, but I attached some strings that let them get involved in the local politics. I gave them tech toys, but I always kept them at a fairly low power level. We strated off playing D and D, and I wanted to get away from that type of game. I agree that you need more roleplayer types to have a good SF game. I say the same thing about superhero games as well.

[Nyrath]

Re: Growing love for Star Hero and Sci-Fi games.

 

By contrast, as children boys only want art with boys in it, and girls only want art with boys in it...

 

Psycho-analyze that if you want.

It's because children do not have that context yet.

 

In the following image:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/dirtymindtest.html

children see a group of dolphins swimming, while adults see something more mature.