UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

[Rapier]

Now before I begin, I'm not disparaging the book or Steve or anyone.

 

I stopped in to see my friends at the local gaming shop and perused some of the Hero books. I've allowed myself a limited budget of gaming materials for my next purchase and want to maximise them dollars.

 

I've been playing Hero for 13 years now and GMing it for 12. There is not a whole lot of help I need in how to design powers etc. I was looking through the UNTIL SuperPowers Database. It was interesting. But I didn't really see anything in there that I really needed. It was fun to look through and see all the powers and constructions and all, but I'm not sure the cost/benefit analysis is for it.

 

And I don't doubt for a minute that I will eventually end up owning the book, but do I backshelf that purchase? I was wondering how much actual use you have gotten out of it. Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand its role?

 

I've got one slot left in my shopping cart and I'm considering Villainy Amok or Ultimate Mystic instead (yes I know they are not out yet).

 

Thoughts?

[Jhamin]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

One of the main uses of the Until Superpower Database is to help people construct characters quickly without having to sort out alot of power writups. You can just decide what your schtick is, buy some stats, look in the appropriate section of the book, and buy powers until you run out of points.

This is a new approach to supplements hero has taken. The USPDB was the first of these "premade bundle" books. They have followed it up with Gadgets & Gear and the Fantasy Hero Grimores I & II.

 

By all indications, the series has been very successful for Hero Games. I know folks at my FLGS have gone on about how these are the books that allow them to get a team of characters built and into play before everyone's attention wanders.

 

If you are a long time hero gamer, odds are that you are very comfortable doing this stuff by hand. If that is the case, then these books are useful as a source of inspiration, but you probably don't need the hand holding.

U:SPDB comes into it's own for new hero players and people who like to play hero but dislike the detailed character creation process.

 

If you want rules discussions, you are better off with the ultimate series.

[beauxdeigh]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

And I don't doubt for a minute that I will eventually end up owning the book, but do I backshelf that purchase? I was wondering how much actual use you have gotten out of it. Am I missing something? Did I misunderstand its role?

 

I've got one slot left in my shopping cart and I'm considering Villainy Amok or Ultimate Mystic instead (yes I know they are not out yet).

 

Thoughts?

 

I own it and I've been playing and GMing on and off for 20+ years. I love the book for two reasons.

 

1) New Players. I've just recently pulled together a group of three players who are totally new to the HERO system. When one of them wanted to play a Human Torch rip off, I handed him the USPD open to the Fire Powers section and told him to pick what he wanted, and if he didn't see something specific to let me know. Which allowed me to focus on the gadgeteer a bit more. The USPD and Gadgets and Gear make great quick start lists for creating Champions characters.

 

2) Quick Villians. Hm. I need an Ice projector and a guy made out of steel. I have a good idea what that means and what powers each should have, but do I really want to spend the time fine-tuning the all of the powers I've got whirring around in my head for these two villians when those powers are right there in the USPD and I can just copy them. Also, if the USPD doesn't have exactly what I'm looking for, it usually has a similar power that I can use as a base.

 

Hero Designer and the USPD/G&G combo have made Character startup and GM prep fast and relatively easy for me. As a result, I can focus more on refining my plots and getting my players involved in the genre...not just the fights. I love the HERO system to death and I love to tinker with characters, but I love to sit down and play more and the publishing choices that DoJ have made has only made that easier for my friends and I to do.

 

I think books like the USPD, et.al. are raising the HERO system to a more generally accessible level that really didn't exist before. Does that make it something you should run out and buy right now? Probably not, but even for some one who is as intimately familiar with the system as you and I are, it can be a real boon. I'd put it on my definite 'to buy' list, if I were you. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how much use you'll get out of it.

[Cheiro]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

Jhamin and Beauxdeigh have pretty much nailed it. The way I utilize it is as a "plug and play" powers resource for villians, usually with a little tweaking.

It's particularly useful when there I have to create a number of villains from scratch.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

It's also very handy for quickly providing powers for Variable Power Pools.

[Rapier]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

It's also very handy for quickly providing powers for Variable Power Pools.

Oh gods, I never even thought of that. We've got one player that has this character he plays occassionally. Some cruddy stats and a 300pt VPP.

[Rapier]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

It's particularly useful when there I have to create a number of villains from scratch.

Hmm. Now that does sound a bit useful. We play online so sometimes I have weeks (or even a month) to prep. But sometimes we can get on a roll and I only have 48 hours. And I do use a LOT of guest appearances/cameos/1 shot characters to distract them and intertwine with the main plot line. There are times I've even rooted around in the forums for some character writeups and stolen them, because I was so short on time.

 

Damn. Now I'm really gonna have to give this some thought. ARGH!

 

Decisions, decisions. It's all Steve's fault! He's writing too fast!

[Steve Long]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

It's all Steve's fault! He's writing too fast!

 

"I regret that I have but one keyboard to give for my game company."

[paigeoliver]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

"I regret that I have but one keyboard to give for my game company."

 

I have a box of them in my closet, where should I send them?

[JmOz]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

Depending on how limited your budget is:

 

Don't buy it (sorry guys)

 

Seriously, Hero has a lot of other books out there that would be more useful to you

 

Ultimate Brick or Vehicle to name two, CKC, Mystic World, etc...

 

NOw if you have the extra money, get it, it is a good book, but the PnP books are not needed by the people really comfortable with the system

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

I was looking through the UNTIL SuperPowers Database. It was interesting. But I didn't really see anything in there that I really needed.

 

You don't need anything other than Hero 5. But the UNTIL book is one of the more useful Hero supplements I own, quite possibly second only to H5 itself. We refer to it constantly during character creation, when making up NPCs, and I personally use it for quick ideas for powers for my super-mage character.

 

In terms of sheer utility, it's one of the best Hero Games purchases I have made.

 

P.S. I've been playing and GMing Champions since the mid 1980's. I am as "comfortable with the system" as anyone other than the authors is likely to get.

[Greywind]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

"I regret that I have but one keyboard to give for my game company."

Keyboards are cheap. Typing monkeys aren't.

 

Can I interest you in a typing monkey?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

Depending on how limited your budget is:

 

Don't buy it (sorry guys)

 

Seriously, Hero has a lot of other books out there that would be more useful to you

 

Ultimate Brick or Vehicle to name two, CKC, Mystic World, etc...

Interesting. Although I definitely consider myself "really comfortable with the system," I find USPD to be at least as useful as most of these books.

 

Ultimate Brick I'll concede is probably more useful for experienced Hero players in Champions campaigns featuring comic-book level bricks. The Ultimate Vehicle I'd say is less useful than USPD unless the campaign is very vehicle-heavy. CKC and The Mystic World might be more useful if you're playing in the Champions Universe, but if you're not, I'd rate USPD as definitely more useful than The Mystic World, and at least as useful as CKC.

 

Really, they're all useful and you should buy all of them.

the PnP books are not needed by the people really comfortable

with the system

Only in the sense that (as bblackmoor points out) you don't need any books other than H5E. Even for the experienced player, it can still save you time, serve as a source of ideas, assist in power pool allottment, and so on.

 

You may know how to grow wheat, mill the grain, mix it with other ingredients, and bake it into a loaf of bread. But that doesn't mean you never buy a loaf of bread from the store. You may not always have the time for or interest in taking it all the way from grain seed to table.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

You may know how to grow wheat, mill the grain, mix it with other ingredients, and bake it into a loaf of bread. But that doesn't mean you never buy a loaf of bread from the store. You may not always have the time for or interest in taking it all the way from grain seed to table.

 

Great now i'm hungry.

Maybe a Hero sandwich

[MitchellS]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

If I had to pick just 3 Champions products they'd be: DEMON: Servants of Darkness (extremely well-written and a great example of a meta-plot), Conquerors, Killers & Crooks (prefab villains are a real time saver), and the UNTIL Superpowers Database (more power ideas than I ever imagined after 22 years of Champions gaming). The USPD is just jammed-packed with ideas and makes building a multitude of characters extremely easy.

 

As I only play Champions I found little use for The Ultimate Vehicle and the Vehicle Sourcebook (vehicles are not really a major plot device in most Champions games); and even the Bestiary was not that helpful (most of the animals or too weak compared to superhumans to be combat adversaries).

[BlackSword]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

even the Bestiary was not that helpful (most of the animals or too weak compared to superhumans to be combat adversaries).

But what happens when Dr. Boreau starts pumping them up with steroids?

 

I've only used the besiary a few times, but one time it was just to get the ideas for a primative civilization to attack the star-farers who had crashed on their planet.

[Dust Raven]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

If you're just looking for ideas of Powers to make and how they might work together, try a character book like CKC. I've found that looking at actual character write-ups helps me more when working out a concept.

 

The USPD is still a great buy though. As mentioned above, it's great for those VPPs, and also various uses for the Power Skill. And, as also previously mentioned, it's an awesome tool for new players.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

But what happens when Dr. Boreau starts pumping them up with steroids?

 

I've only used the besiary a few times, but one time it was just to get the ideas for a primative civilization to attack the star-farers who had crashed on their planet.

 

The many animal templates in the Bestiary make it pretty easy to combine or "power up" normal animals to make them a threat even to superheroes, and with all the strange experiments and phenomena in a comic-book universe that's easy to justify. OTOH I find many of the fantasy and sci-fi creatures in the book to be readily usable against super opposition; in fact the various Demon Princes, the Giant Space Amoeba or the Engine of Destruction are worthy opposition for the mightiest superteams.

 

Back on topic: I really have little to add beyond what others have mentioned. If the 5E rulebook is all you really need to run a supers game, and all the other books are just nice to have, then the USPD is among the nicest.

[MitchellS]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

But what happens when Dr. Boreau starts pumping them up with steroids?

 

I've only used the besiary a few times, but one time it was just to get the ideas for a primative civilization to attack the star-farers who had crashed on their planet.

The animals are fine if you want to jockey with them. I just meant you can't really make a lion an adversary for a superhero. A character like Changling from the Teen Titans or even Menagerie from CKC cannot really gain any advantage by turning themselves into a Lion or even an Elephant. The Bestiary is really only useful for heroic level games, unless you're using the demons, devils, dinosaurs, etc..

[OddHat]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

The animals are fine if you want to jockey with them. I just meant you can't really make a lion an adversary for a superhero. A character like Changling from the Teen Titans or even Menagerie from CKC cannot really gain any advantage by turning themselves into a Lion or even an Elephant. The Bestiary is really only useful for heroic level games' date=' unless you're using the demons, devils, dinosaurs, etc..[/quote']

 

Mostly I'd agree with this. OTOH, I've gotten a lot of use out of the Bestiary by taking a normal animal and quickly slaping on the Divine / Infernal / Cyborg / Space / other templates in the book, and/or adding a few quick custom powers. Gernseback the Wonder Dog (my version of Krypto), the Flying Thunder Goats, Siruba the Divine Horse, Fire Lions from Alpha Centauri, and a huge list of other comic book class creatures only took me a few minutes each to throw together using the Bestiary Pack and Hero Designer.

 

On the other hand I had reservations about most of the Demons and Monsters; they don't pack much bang for the buck, which means that they're cool enough in the hands of the GM, but overpriced as Summon and Multiform options for PCs. Easy enough to fix, but it bugged me.

[Dragonblade]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

You are kidding, right? Not useful?

 

The USPD makes it possible for me to run HERO system games on the fly! Something, I could never do well before that book came out.

 

I'm way too much of an perfectionist to just make up powers off my head. My villains have to have fully constructed powers made properly. And with this book, I can create a villain on the fly, with his powers, and everything runs smoothly.

 

My games were a lot more rigid before I got that book. Thank you, Steve!

 

I can't recommend the book enough. Even as a character idea generator, the book is simply phenomenal! If you are new to HERO, I highly recommend that book along with Sidekick.

[zornwil]

Re: UNTIL SuperPowers Database Usefulness

 

If you're good at making up powers off the top of your head, as Dragonblade mentions as a criteria and is right in so doing, then USPD is of limited use. But it's decent as inspirational material and as others said can be a good shortcut - if you need that sort of thing. I've gotten only a minor bit of true use out of it at this point, but probably will get more later I suspect, even if just occasional.