Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Did you? Darn! Well, you didn't remember transdimensional. He'll use that. (they'll have to find him, and that boom is 0 End, so they'll take a few more as they're looking) You know, this guy might break another "rule" of the contest: the character has to be a super *hero*. Randomly nuking cities is. . . not. ( and no, I wouldn't allow "Only Effects Supernatural Evil" as a Limitation on a Megascale Explosion. . . ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Wait. A character can be Invisible w/ No Fringe, and as soon as he turns on his Force Field, everyone can see him? Where does it say that? Not that I don't believe you, but up until now I've missed that one. See page 123. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? You know, this guy might break another "rule" of the contest: the character has to be a super *hero*. Randomly nuking cities is. . . not. ( and no, I wouldn't allow "Only Effects Supernatural Evil" as a Limitation on a Megascale Explosion. . . ) [anime] MEGASPIRITBOMBATTACK!!!! [/anime] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? See page 123. As soon as I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Incidently' date=' if 450+ active point attacks are no threat to a Villain, maybe it's the villain write up that has a problem? [/quote'] To be fair, the Takofanes defense setup is a tradeoff. He's extremely, extremely difficult to one-shot with anything. However, he's relatively easy to attrite. Thus, the nominal opposition for him are heroes tough enough to take what he throws at them without dropping like flies ( at the very least, good enough defenses that he needs to concentrate on single targets to take them down ), and with attacks big enough to get decent amounts through the defense. At worst, you force him to put more and more of his VPP into defense and healing, which aids your own survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Except for one problem: your team is custom designed to fight megavillains, rather than being actual interesting and "organic," for lack of a better term, characters. IOW, they are character that are unlikely in the extreme to exist in any superhero universe, because super heroes simple don't come into existence that way. BS. Qu is a pretty basic power armour character. Because of the nature of his superpower, he doesn't have lots of cool gadgets, he just a few that work really well. He operates at least as effectively as a 'normal' 350pt character is stopping crimes on his own. He's vehicle based, sure, but that's a valid character concept. More to the point, I actually like the background I've developed for him. Poltergeist is pretty normal Telekinetic. She fights quite well on her own. Frequency is an Illusionist, primarily. That is a pretty common type of character. He has some energy powers too... again, not unusual. Mightyman is your average brick, albeit relatively a little light on defenses. He's boring, but the "The Strongest Man in the World" (or thereabouts) is pretty common as a concept. Major Victory is rather heavily based on Cap. He's superhumanly inspiring and courageous... and has that weird Achilles heel power... but again, there are a lot of characters like this. Trinity, I admit, is pretty unique. That said, her role on the team is marginal. She heals, she provides some extra team wide defenses, and she has a small power pool. To be honest, a straight power pool Witch would be more useful vs he big bads... but less cool. That's right. These characters are NOT numeric peak efficiency... I designed them with a @#$%ing character concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? I'd just like certain people on this thread to remember that there was a reason one of us was dubbed "The Munchkin King", and that all these nasty little powers have been seen before. Really, I'm the guy who built "100D6 RKA Man" on 375 points in 4th Edition. I know how to blow people up. And I also know that Dr D or Tako Grande would whip butt on one-trick ponies like we have here. Yawn. I got a 1159 active point power on 1 real point. And a 1912 active point power on 3 real points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? That's the whole point of contingency plans. You plan so as to never be surprised. Hence a Tactics 16- skill. It's a staple of master villain types to have contingency plans. Dr. Doom whom DD is modeled on has loads of them for virtually every contingency imaginable. It's silly to pretend that DD has any fewer plans than Doom. Not to mention that he's smart enough to figure out that a team with X powers in combination is a potential threat, and thus prepare countermeasures. After all, *he* doesn't see point values for heroic opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? To do anything, he has to to abort. So no, he can't throw out an explosion... Abort to Force Wall is interesting. Exactly how 'Uber' is it? ('cause a noncombat movethrough by the jet would probably pop it) Wait a sec, your central anti-Tak tactic involves having the brick *fly a jet into him*?? Out of curiousity, how is your team illusionist and mystic keeping this concealed *without having them fly along on a suicide mission*?? Re: the force wall, I can't remember how much. Though frankly, he'd be better off hauling out a 50/50 0 END force field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? The autofire NND is 160 active points, and costs 104 net points. And the FF and Desolid don't have invisible power effects, so it renders the invis completely useless. 1) Oops. Forgot about the extra +1 for autofiring an NND. Still, if I really card, I'd keep tweaking this. 2) Isn't that only vs attasck powers? (cite, please?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? [anime] MEGASPIRITBOMBATTACK!!!! [/anime] Oh, nothing wrong with the idea of an anti-evil spirit attack in theory, its just that combining a limited target class like that essentially nullifies the inherent limiting factors to Explosion and Megascale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Wait a sec, your central anti-Tak tactic involves having the brick *fly a jet into him*?? Out of curiousity, how is your team illusionist and mystic keeping this concealed *without having them fly along on a suicide mission*?? Re: the force wall, I can't remember how much. Though frankly, he'd be better off hauling out a 50/50 0 END force field. No, the brick superleaps into him. The Jet just gets them all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? 1) Oops. Forgot about the extra +1 for autofiring an NND. Still, if I really card, I'd keep tweaking this. 2) Isn't that only vs attasck powers? (cite, please?) Page 123. However, Invisibility does not automatically make a character's attacks or other powers Invisible as well (that requires the Advantage, Invisible Power Effects; see page 168) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Oh, nothing wrong with the idea of an anti-evil spirit attack in theory, its just that combining a limited target class like that essentially nullifies the inherent limiting factors to Explosion and Megascale. Oh, I was just going off on a tangent because I had this image in my head of an anime character screaming that as a blast of supernatural energy destroys thousands of evil spirits that are attacking him, and then collapsing to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Yawn. I got a 1159 active point power on 1 real point. And a 1912 active point power on 3 real points. Out of curiousity, was that done by abusing chain Summon/Vehicle tricks, or just with positively obscene amounts of Disads?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Out of curiousity' date=' was that done by abusing chain Summon/Vehicle tricks, or just with positively obscene amounts of Disads??[/quote'] Abusing Summon Rules. You can pile gobs of limitations on both the Summon and what gets Summoned (thus essentially squaring the limitation value) as well as getting the 1:5 point break. Here is the thread. http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23417&page=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Page 123. I don't think so... I don't think non-Attack powers make you visible 'enough' to be hit while invisible. Hold on while I put it on the HSR Questions board. Actually, while we wait: Wouldn't this mean that Invisiblity, since IT is not bought with invisible power effects, makes you visible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? The problem with the Champions Universe is that the most powerful individuals are all villains. The most powerful magic-user? He's a 100K year old undead lich. The guy with the best tech? He's an old Nazi supergenius. The strongest guy? A rampaging deformed psychotic idiot. The most powerful telepath? A guy who spent too much time reading internet mind control sex stories and decided to try them out. The best and the brightest are all evil. It's a very dark world. They need heroes who can actually stop these menaces. As far as the 350 point "extreme" characters, you're in for a world of hurt if you try to use those. What happens when they fly close to Takofanes, and suddenly find their souls removed by his AE Invisible Death Aura? Or when Dr Destroyer shows up at their house, watching their TV? "Destroyer's cable is out. Destroyer will watch the game here! Grrah! Touchdown??? Destroyer hates Notre Dame! You there, get Destroyer a coke!" How is this different from the source material? PS/EDIT - the point being, our "regular" characters in comics aren't supposed to go toe-to-toe in brute force against Galactus or Darkseid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? How is this different from the source material? PS/EDIT - the point being, our "regular" characters in comics aren't supposed to go toe-to-toe in brute force against Galactus or Darkseid. Not much at all, at least regarding the villains. The divergence is among the heroes, as in the source materials, ( almost ) all villains, however powerful, can be opposed by a team of suitably powerful heroes. To put it another way, Champions has its Armored Scientific Genius World Conqueror, but it doesn't have its Team of Adventurer-Heroes Who Can Together Oppose Said Conqueror On Almost Even Footing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted October 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? I didn't think this thread would go quite so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? IOW' date=' you get the GM to hand you the victory gift-wrapped, without having to work for it and actually earn it.[/quote'] If your GM is a talentless hack, yes. But if your GM isn't, there will be plenty of reasons why being "the only one who can stop Takofanes" is a Disadvantage. See the Lord of the Rings for further details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Re: Schmucks? ... the whole point of Lord of the Rings was that Frodo *WASN'T* some kind of Fated Chosen One. That guy was called Aragorn, and, well, he didn't win. He held up his side of the line in a support role / diversion while the Ring-Bearer and his party won, but the Fated Chosen One /was/ the "overshadowed" character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Re: Schmucks? Not much at all, at least regarding the villains. The divergence is among the heroes, as in the source materials, ( almost ) all villains, however powerful, can be opposed by a team of suitably powerful heroes. To put it another way, Champions has its Armored Scientific Genius World Conqueror, but it doesn't have its Team of Adventurer-Heroes Who Can Together Oppose Said Conqueror On Almost Even Footing. Depends what you mean. In true comic book fashion, the big bad cannot/will not be vanquished until the end of many many issues and most likely as part of a very major event. He might be beaten or frustrated incrementally, tactically, but he continues his campaign "forever". In that light, I don't see why some 350s can't frustrate the evil guys' plans time and again and grow until they face him in the ultra-big battle where "...and one shall die!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Re: Schmucks? The problem is, as the CU megavillains are currently statted, the 350s won't live long enough to *have* a next battle -- unless the DM deliberately (and repeatedly) muffs his shot. There's a word for that, and it's called 'gimme'. And knowing that you're alive only 'cause of continual DM gimmes kills the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Re: Schmucks? If your GM is a talentless hack, yes. But if your GM isn't, there will be plenty of reasons why being "the only one who can stop Takofanes" is a Disadvantage. See the Lord of the Rings for further details. The disadvantage, however, does not give you the *capability* to do so inherently. If you have the Disad "Fated to be only one who can stop Takofanes," then you'd better start gathering XP and purchasing skills, powers, etc, or else when you actually have to *stop* Takofanes, you'll fail miserably. And if the "Disad" is "Fated to defeat Takofanes," such that it ensures that you will defeat Takofanes, *then it isn't a disadvantage.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts