CrosshairCollie Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? (I know there are other archetypes, but I consider those the big 4.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Well, I can't remember all our DEX scores in the Sentinels game, but in our Chicago game, our characters are in the low to high 20s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? (I know there are other archetypes, but I consider those the big 4.) In my experience, going at 250 to 350 pts, Bricks tend to be around 20, Martial Artists around 26, Speedsters 26+, Energy Projectors, Mystics and and Armored guys around 23. Mentalists tend to have EGO 23-26. At higher points, things tend to be a bit higher, but not a lot higher usually except for Speedsters. Among the Chicago Campaign characters, Malleable Man (stretchy quasi-brick) has a 20, Peregrine (armored blaster) 23, Valor (martial brick) 26, Nox (darkness projector/martial artist) 27 and Diomedes (tactician/martial artist/minor gadget-guy) 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? (I know there are other archetypes, but I consider those the big 4.) In my Bay City/Meta Champions games: Brick:15-20 MA:23-30 Speedster:25-30 Energy Projector:15-23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? (I know there are other archetypes, but I consider those the big 4.) Rounded to the nearest whole number: Brick: 19 MA: 25 Speedster: 32 EP: 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Brick 10-15 Blaster 14-20 Martial Artist 18-24 Speedster 20-26 Yes, I know they are low. As Gm I consciously chose these values. I wanted heroes that were still in the Dex ranges of normal humans. I just don't see Cyclops or Scarlet Witch type characters in the "olympic level" Dex range. I've adjusted the dex ranges of all the official villians accordingly. It works out pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages In our campaign the numbers are as follows: Brick: 18 - 24 MA: 23 - 30 EP: 18 - 24 Speedster: 25 - 35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages I just don't see Cyclops or Scarlet Witch type characters in the "olympic level" Dex range. Oh, I don't know about that. I was once stalking Kerri Strugg (the little cutie who won an olympic gold medal in '96), but then she broke my heart by issuing a restraining order against me. So I broke her jaw with a tire iron. She couldn't have that good a Dex, 'cause I know that I don't (I'm a klutz), but I was able to hit her 3 or 4 times before those cops saw me and I had to run off. She don't dodge for crap. If she had an 18+ Dex, then I'd only be hitting her on like an 8 or less. Maybe I just rolled really well, but I didn't miss her once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Checked the Sentinels character sheets. The New Sentinels range from 23-30 in Dex. Don't know what Horus-Re has, but its probably in that range, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? My PCs run like so: Brick - 24-27 Martial Artist - 30 Speedster - 30-36 Energy Projector - 27-30 I just have a habit of making high DEX characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages My PCs run like so: Brick - 24-27 Martial Artist - 30 Speedster - 30-36 Energy Projector - 27-30 I just have a habit of making high DEX characters. Yours seem to mimic mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages My PCs run like so: Brick - 24-27 Martial Artist - 30 Speedster - 30-36 Energy Projector - 27-30 I just have a habit of making high DEX characters. Your bricks have the DEX I would expect of a Martial Artist, and your Martial Artists and Energy Projectors have Speedster DEX, and your Speedsters are just ludicrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages I find myself agreeing with Champsguy on this. Point bloat ( out of concept ) but justified by the game system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Your bricks have the DEX I would expect of a Martial Artist' date=' and your Martial Artists and Energy Projectors have Speedster DEX, and your Speedsters are just ludicrous.[/quote'] Now that's just rude. If you go with the scale that says 30 DEX is peak human, and you assume that your PCs are that epic, and that Speedsters have a superpower raising them up, it's reasonable. Higher than I'd go, usually, but it's okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages One thing I have learned from my experiment with lowering the Dex in my campaign is that the value of the stat itself (unlike say Str or Con) has absolutely no meaning. The only thing that matters is campaign averages and the values various characters have relative to each other. A two point difference between DCV and OCV is is just as meaningful if the ranges are 12 vs 10 or 6 vs. 4. I'm comfortable with my ranges where I have them. I can just wrap my head around them better there. (The oddity of having a 70 str brick in a game where I get weird about 22 Dex has not escaped me). While I don't think I could deal with dex scores in the range phydaux has them at, I can understand why he has set them where he has. I can say with certanty that if the baddies are in the same range then the actual effect of stats that high is pretty negligable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages I think DEX is one of the most otentially deceptive characteristics as it's more subject to limitations than most other characteristics. Take a favorite example of mine, Wanda the Scarlet Witch. What would you say here DEX is? 15? 18? She never seems to do much but stand around and point, and there's the rub. I actually think Wanda would have around a 22 DEX but given the fact that she seems to have Concentration and Delayed Phase (where she acts on half her DEX or 11, in this case which is just above normal human) she seems much less Dextrous. I have a mystic/energy projector with a DEX 24 built on this model and I find it kinda explains some of the seeming inconsistencies of comics. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages let see: For NPC's Dex/Speed Bricks: 17-23/4-5 Matial Artists: 26-30/5-6 Speedster: 29-35/6-7 Energy Projectors: 20-26/5-6 MOst other types (metamorphs and what have you) fit in the Energy Projector range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Another interesting point that was raised and that I forgot to cover in my last post was the idea of normal char maxima and peak human DEX. The way I've always viewed it is that normal humans, including Olympians, etc have DEXes up to 20 whereas "superhuman" human maximun goes to 30. I think that works nicely to explain the discrepancies between guys like Wolverine and Cap (who I just can't envision having DEXes in the 18 -20 range as they would if they were to be scaled according to the normal characteristic maxima) and your usual Olympian. Of course, I have some difficulty with the expanded table which I believe was including in Champions Universe (?). I think it had like legendary human DEX (which I think cap would rationally qualify for) at something like 40 DEX (I may be mistaken on the number) which seems to be going equally wrong in the opposite direction. To me, Cap would be something like SPD 6, DEX 30 and Wolverine would be SPD 5, DEX 26. I think that makes them both distinctive but within a comfortable and sane range. Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Nope, Legendary max for Dex is 30, as listed in Champions Universe. The only primary characteristics with higher legendary max are INT, EGO, and PRE, all at 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Well I posted my bit earlier on the Fixing MA thread, but essentialy I have something in my games called HCM: HUman Character Maxima, iti s valued at 1.5 x NCM so anyone can reach dex 30 but NCM comes into effect making it cost more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Just out of curiosity, in your game(s), what is a typical DEX score for the major archetypes of Brick Martial Artist Speedster Energy Projector? (I know there are other archetypes, but I consider those the big 4.) Varies by campaign/GM a bit, but generally: Brick: 14-24, Speed 4-6, usually 5 MA: 23-30, Speed 5-7, usually 6 Speedster: 26-35, Speed 6+ EP: 18-27, Speed 5-6, usually 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages let see: For NPC's Dex/Speed Bricks: 17-23/4-5 Matial Artists: 26-30/5-6 Speedster: 29-35/6-7 Energy Projectors: 20-26/5-6 MOst other types (metamorphs and what have you) fit in the Energy Projector range My local games look like this as well. 350 Speedsters are allowed an 8 SPD though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Bricks --- DEX 17-23, SPD 4-5 [18, 4 being average] Energy --- DEX 15-26, SPD 4-6 [21, 5 being average] MA -------DEX 20-28, SPD 5-7 [23, 5.5 being average] Speedsters--DEX 26-33, SPD 6-9 [28, 7 being average] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages Varies by campaign/GM a bit, but generally: Brick: 14-24, Speed 4-6, usually 5 MA: 23-30, Speed 5-7, usually 6 Speedster: 26-35, Speed 6+ EP: 18-27, Speed 5-6, usually 5. Ours would be similar, but with MA's at DEX 26-35 (we don't see speedsters often). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Re: DEX Averages I think DEX is one of the most otentially deceptive characteristics as it's more subject to limitations than most other characteristics. Take a favorite example of mine, Wanda the Scarlet Witch. What would you say here DEX is? 15? 18? She never seems to do much but stand around and point, and there's the rub. I actually think Wanda would have around a 22 DEX but given the fact that she seems to have Concentration and Delayed Phase (where she acts on half her DEX or 11, in this case which is just above normal human) she seems much less Dextrous. I have a mystic/energy projector with a DEX 24 built on this model and I find it kinda explains some of the seeming inconsistencies of comics. Actually, I blame this more on the original decision (way back in 1st edition) to stat every super out with higher than normal DEX. If typical Bricks in st Ed had been written up at DEX 8-11 (rather than 17-20), and every other archetype dropped about 9 or 10 DEX as well, we would have DEX 13-18 EP's. and DEX 18 - 26 Martial Artists/speedsters, with 30 DEX being extreme. And the game would play exactly as it does now, since all OCV's and DCV's ould fall by about 3, except for agents and normals. Dex inflation basically soaks up 30 points from the average Super without changing how they compare against each other, but making it much harder for normals to attack them or avoid their attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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