5E Champions - By the Numbers

[Marchwarden]

IIRC, when the new team was introduced, there was a fair amount of discussion of their personalities and background, but relatively little about the integrity of their design. One thing that always bugged me about the BBB team was that, although one of their functions was to provide examples of character design for new players, many of them suffered from odd flaws (shouldn't Seeker know how to use his martial-arts weapons with his martial arts?), which could lead new players astray.

 

Now, perhaps it was that we were all still getting used to 5th, or perhaps it was that, before CU and CKC, there wasn't enough opposition to give us a solid idea of what "typical" enemies would be like. By now, though, people ought to feel comfortable weighing in. Please note the intended focus is on mechanics:

 

- do the numbers match the character's intended concept?

- how effective are these characters in practice?

- would their strengths and weaknesses make them fun, or frustrating to play?

 

I'll kick off a few initial, 'kicker' observations:

 

DEFENDER: He's got a fair range of combat options: an energy-based multipower plus a decent Move-Through or Haymaker. He should probably go to 4d6 on his Overload Blast, but it's far from critical. His only non-END-costing attack is his Entangle, but he packs a pretty big reserve. His defenses are adequate by the new standards (especially with his in-armour CON of 30). Out of combat, he has both social and technological assets to employ. At 350 points, it's not hard to design a Power Armour hero who's at least a little combat-capable outside the suit, and James really isn't, but that's his only sore spot with me. Disads? Well, if I were powerless outside my costume I wouldn't choose a master sniper as a Hunted, but then, all D's enemies apparently want him alive (Capture), so it's not a kiss of death.

 

If I were to play him, I'd look into learning Combat Piloting (so that if his suit is ever damaged/stolen/whatever, he can fly the V-Jet or a personal fighting vehicle). I'd also look into picking up some maneuvers (either martial arts, or just tight-group CSLs for whatever he seems to use most often).

 

IRONCLAD: Offensively, the HTH levels offset the lowish DEX, 60 STR is perfectly adequate for a brick and the Gladiator's Eye makes it downright scary. His PD and ED are...again, OK by the standards of the new edition, and he has a host of peripheral defensive powers and resistances. Is Leaping a good choice of primary movement type when you weigh 2000 kg? Hmm, 2" tunnelling linked to Leaping... Out of combat, he has limited skills, but his off-planet origins would make for entertaining roleplay - sometimes, it's less important to be useful than to be fun. Disads? Firewing wants to kill him. This is bad. The entire team collectively would have trouble taking Firewing. And doesn't Firewing actually want to defeat him in honourable battle and prove his own supremacy? They've scrapped before, and never to the death. Why this sudden "no quarter" attitude from Ariax Thone? "Kill" isn't worth any more points than "Publically Beat the Snot Out Of", and is less in character for Firewing.

 

If I were to play Ironclad...well, in time I'd really have to either buy off his cultural impairment or let me swap it for an equal point Disad. Contacts and Earth-relevant noncombat skills would allow him to stay entertaining after the novelty of playing "clueless alien" wears thin. Obviously, I'd like more defense, and since this is the team's official damage sponge, the GM might let me edge up to 30/30.

 

NIGHTHAWK: No Weapon Element! Argh! for one measly point, he could use his weapon with his technique. Growl, mutter. As it is, he has to Haymaker with the club just to do damage *equal* to his Punch/Kick. His defenses (including defensive maneuvers) are actually not bad for a Martial Artist/Acrobat type. My real beef (besides the WE) is his offense. DEX 25 is certainly not bad, but with only a single Overall Level, and no martial attacks that offer an OCV bonus, combined with his lackluster 10D6 principal attack, means that he's a real terror to muggers, and can whip a Viper agent or even two of them, but supervillains in the 350-point range will generally prove too hard to hit or too hard to hurt.

 

Of course, this is because Mark isn't just a Martial Artist; he's also a Gadgeteer and a street-sleuth. The weapons on his utility belt are only 30 ap attacks, but at 1 point a slot, he's got a lot of them. If his investigations reveal that a certain enemy has a certain vulnerability, he may have it in his pocketses. He has the teamwork skill, and may be used for timely "assists", pelting a Stunned foe with a sleep-gas pellet to make sure they stay out of the fight, or Martial-throwing a foe so that a teammate can get 'em while they're prone. Out of combat, he has a host of gadgets and skills; no problem being useful there. Disads: erm, Mechassassin isn't As Pow, he's Mo Pow. Drop the frequency to 8- and it works out to the same points (and Mark may survive).

 

If I were playing Nighthawk: he's actually a good growth prospect. Since my ego doesn't require me to play the heaviest of hitters, I could handle a support/backup role for the first few sessions. Then, 1 point for the weapons element, 3 points a pop for a Kung Fu CSL or two, 1 point each for any gadgets I want to round out the belt with, and suddenly it all starts to come together. The belt weapons (apart from the clubs) tend to be either AE or else are meant to be used in surprise situations or against distracted foes, so I'm not worried about buying up levels for them, and my skills are so high that the Overall level ought to be plenty - for now at least.

 

Sapphire: Well, she has the "misses a lot" problem even worse than Nighthawk - OCV 8, ranged attacks, and she's not stealthy enough to get many surprise attacks off. Apart from "Ironclad, hold him while I shoot him!", Rapid Fire is flat out -which is too bad, because her 0 END blast would be pretty good there. That said, it fits the character concept for her to be a bit unpracticed, and it's easily fixed. She can spread the beam on Power Bolt I until she improves her aim. Defenses are looking good, although a little bulletproof spandex would be a good idea in case she gets Stunned in flight - that FF's nonpersistent. Unlike many mutant blasters, her END costs are pretty light - which means she shouldn't be afraid to Push when it counts. Noncombat? Well, on the one hand, playing a famous star can be a lot of fun, but there is little she can actually *do* - she hasn't cultivated useful Contacts despite her fame, she has very few skills, her PS: Singing 14- is quite capable but hardly legendary, and she doesn't even have the Acting skill...My God, it *is* J. Lo with mutant powers!

 

If I were to play Sapphire, I'd...develop the noncombat side with Contacts and/or Followers, possibly Acting and Disguise (useful show-biz skills which apply well to crimefighting, and are especially handy when that Public ID is proving bothersome). It would be out of character to push combat exclusively, but picking up 3-pt CSLs and Rapid Attack (Ranged) in between winning over media figures and learning to dance and act wouldn't be inappropriate.

 

WITCHCRAFT: Frameworks? Why yes we have frameworks! She's much more likely to hit with her mental spells, which include a perfectly whompy Ego Attack plus MC and MI: the latter two are too weak for brute-force mindbending, but are perfectly serviceable if used subtly. If an opponent's DCV is lowered (he's Sweeping, Stunned, Grabbed, unaware) a 2-shot Transform RF will often be enough to introduce a foe to his "inner amphibian". The Witchfire, IMO, is mainly reserved for use against the odd foe who's not vulnerable to mental spells or human-to-frog; therefore, I'd sooner see it at 12D6 and full END cost, rather than its current lukewarm incarnation. Her defenses are weak even by 5th Ed standards, and while she is in many ways a mentalist, she doesn't have Mind Scan or a Detect with Targeting, which means that staying out of sight may not be a feasible first line of defense.

 

But, then there's the VPP. You can do a lot with 30 points. Out of combat, she has powerful reconnaisance abilities (turning yourself into an innocuous animal with keen senses and human intellect is remarkably effective for the points cost). When preparing for battle, she can do something as straightforward as kicking up some extra defense or as inobvious as a spell of illusion (switching her appearance with Ironclad's is fun, and in subsequent fights you don't even need to actually do it; it's enough that they have to guess)

 

If I were playing Witchcraft: the problem with developing such a versatile and framework-oriented character is that she could stand to be better at everything she does, but it takes patience to muster the points to kick a framework up a notch. She has the skills she needs, and it would be a tad out of character for such a focused person to start randomly learning a pile of unrelated stuff. Hmm...I'd spend the odd point on increasing her INT (representing her greater overall awareness and comprehension), and switching INT-based skills from 8- and 11- to 9+INT/5-, but I'd stash away about half my earnings Until I could kick the EC up. Faster Flight and a stronger FF would go a goodly way to keeping her from harm, and would leave me free to use the VPP for fun stuff instead of extra defense.

 

Your thoughts?

[Hermit]

Nice Summary. I'm not as good at the combat mechanics as many, but your points seem like good ones.

 

I really have to confess I think the 'averages' for Defenses in 5th are about 5 points lower than I like.

Beyond defenses though, it varies.

One skill I'd probably save up for with Defender is Tactics. If you're going to lead a team in battle, you owe it to them to study that stuff. I'd try to eventually get an extra five points to buy that +1 with HTH up to a Overall Skill Level. Just seems more in keeping with the versitility of the hero.

 

I'd enjoy playing Defender; though I might play up some 4th Edition aspects (Clueless of women as oppossed to just too busy to notice them might be fun.)

 

Ironclad definitely gets pumped up in physical defenses. Sorry.

*L* didn't notice jumping was his main form of movement until you pointed it out. Yeah, maybe save up for one or two extra inches of running.

 

Not sure how long I'd want to play the 'naive about earth' before I finally bought it up, but the interim would be fun. I think Ironclad might be a nice one to build on the duality angle. The guy clearly enjoys battle, but he's also an artist. He was a soldier, who when betrayed, went AWOL. He might have some strong feelings on the obligations leaders have to those that serve him. Exploring the philosphical part of it might be fun.

 

Nighthawk was my least favorite Champion, but running him as an NPC has caused him to grow on me. Yes, definitely let him use the club. I think a lot of his growth would depend on the foes he met. He strikes me as the sort to adapt from lessons learned. I'd put some sort of AE attack in his Multipower besides the thermite pellet, maybe a variation of the gas.

 

Playing Nighthawk would be a challenge. Batman would definitely be a role model, but maybe I'd have Nighthawk more openly express his frustration when 'nicer' methods didn't work. He'd definitely be the 'let's get the job DONE' sort. I'd also play up his reliance and love for Julie Morgan.

 

Sapphire... pretty compact character. That range penality works both ways, so it might even out. Still, range level skills would be a good place to invest. I also might save up some points to buy an OIF flash defense... her future being so bright, she has to wear shades I'd also buy up the singing. If she's going to be a super star, might as well bump it up.

 

Playing a mutant without angst would be a kick in and of itself for a time, but after that... I'd probably explore the difficulties of being both superstar and superheroine. Maybe have her make some noise at charity benefits, or even political commentary (Like it or not, entertainers seem to get asked about things they may have no expertise in). I imagine if she percieved some injustice against the latino or mutant community,she might be outspoken on it indeed.

 

Witchcraft- Mechanics wise, I'd go with what you said. A Dispel of magics in that Multipower would be cool. I think maybe she should have more Knowledge Skills and boost up the ones she has. After all, she's the Occult Expert of the team right? First thing I'd buy off would be that Underconfident. One of the gripes about Witchcraft is she's too much like Solitaire. Fine, have her become more assured after getting a few victories under her belt.

 

If I were playing Witchcraft, I'd set her up as kind of the 'brainy girl' opposite of the popular party girl Sapphire seems to be. I would have her be gentle, and kind... until something like a demon came around, and then have her switch to pissed off sorceress who is here to cleanse reality and chew bubble gum, and she's all out of bubble gum. I'd have her scare Nighthawk with her intensity when those rare moments occured. I'd also have her , through her studies, explore how others percieve magic... it's nature and purpose, so she could decide for herself how SHE wants to percieve it.

[Nato]

This thread rocks. Just chiming in so I can get the e-mail notices. Please continue.

[Killer Shrike]

I havent actually used them in play yet, but I recently did an eyeball comparison of the team to my current PC group, with an eye toward straight up conflict and they measured up as a mixed bag.

 

 

 

The current PC group includes:

 

John Wrath, Agent of PRIMUS : the Silver Avenger of MC (in my campaign), a Martial Artist/Light Brick with some gadgets. He has a cyber-eye that gives him Find Weakness 14- and about 50 points in Martial Arts. Has a ton of perks including Federal Police Powers and the requisite Liscence to Kill, and skills as well and of course a PRIMUS Hovercar. Basically a Nick Fury send-up.

 

Rook aka Fortress aka Fort (dont ask): A force-field based character that has some TK-like effects and basically serves as a Speedster/Brick (52" Combat movement bought as Forward-movement only must be in contact with surface Leaping, with Combat Acceleration, and Accurate in a slide-like effect, 55 STR via fully invisible Extra Limbs with 6" of Stretching, a decent FF, 50% Resistant Damage Reduc PD/EE, some Power Def and Mental Def, limited Life Support, and a for-Emergency-Use-Only Force Wall Dome No Range 0 DCV Total Concentration througout). Basically a street-level character, but very powerful. He's generally contemptuous of 'capes' and would rather protect the common people than go after villains. He's much more of a protector than a prosecuter type of character. He's more than happy to just chase a villain off and isnt above live and let live type deals, but also has a dangerous veangeful streak. Kind of has a Daredevil-type personality essentially.

 

The Green Knight: A low level mutant with advanced mental and physical abilities (some low-level mental powers, and some low level phys abilities like Regeneration w/ Lost Limbs, and 6/6 Damage Resistance) who augments his powers with a power armor suit, shield, and a technological mace with a nuero blaster (EGO Attack) built into it, and an advanced Jet Cycle with a on-board computer. His SFX is that the Armor is driven by his advanced mutant nuerological system; basically a normal human would not be able to use most of the abilities to thier fullest capability. He also has a lot of inventor/gadgeteer abilities to back up his power armor schtick. He is big into the valiant knight schtick and plays like a modern day Sir Gawain. Very concerned with the 'honorable' course of action.

DEFUNCT (The player of the Green Knight turned out to not be a good fit for the group and was let go. A shame, really, the Green Knight was a well-rounded and excellent addition to the group.)

 

 

Chitin : a OIHID super brick. A 15 year old science geek, bitten by a chemically altered mutant stag beetle! A few moments of concentration and he grows massively into a hulking man-beetle complete with Exo-skeleton and exponential strength! He can even pop out insectoid wings and take flight (erratically)! He has IIRC 60 STR, but his main power is near-indestructibility to physical damage. He has 30 resistant PD +20 r PD vs Blunt attacks. Sadly, his ED isnt anywhere near as good. He also has clinging and some other small abilities beyond his impressive brickness. In his HERO ID he has trouble speaking intelligibly, so doesnt say much, and hides his real age from the other Heros. He has a very high intelligence, being a major science fair geek in his secret id, and sometimes catches people by suprise with his unbricklike planning.

 

Gravitic : a gravity manipulator, has a lot of movement effecting powers and BODY damage oriented attacks. He has decent but unreliable defences vs physical, but has trouble with energy attacks. He also has several forms of airborn movement himself, including an anti-grav leap, an air-walking ability, and a anti-grav glide. In real life he is a TV and B movie actor in Superhero shows. What he didnt know is that he is the younger half-brother of.....GRAVITAR!!!!!!, his suprise Hunter btw. They have the same father, a globetrotting playboy in his day. Shes obviously much more powerful but once she finds out about her long lost little brother, she will of course want him to join with her and will make a few attempts to turn him before finally giving up and (trying to) killing him. Gravitic isnt too bright and has gotten through life on his good looks and family background. He is a really bad cheesy actor, and his hero persona is very Silver-Age retro-kitch. "Thats right, heroes! I intend to stop the villain with my Gravitic Grounding Ray!". He also thinks his powers stem from an ability to manipulate Graviolis (pronounced like Ravioli with a g in the front).

 

Hype: Speedster/ Light Brick; lots of speed tricks, DEX, SPD, and classic speedster bits. Endorses NAR-COLA ("It lives up to its HYPE, just like me!". He is my PC while Im taking a turn as a player. He effectively replaces ROOK on the active line up as the current GM is ROOKs player. Later, ROOK will return right about the time Hype departs for awhile, or perhaps another GM will run an arc.

 

Agent X: is a mysterious escapee of some kind of super-soldier experiment. The only thing more mysterious than his past is his real identity. A super-skill agent; Scrapper/Infiltrator.

 

 

The PC group is pretty mobile and has a preponderence of toe-to-toe fighters and no real blaster, and the group is currently 375-400 points so I have to make allowances for the Champions, but even giving them a handicap they measure up poorly.

 

Of them all, Ironclad and Defender were the most comparable to the PC group; Ironclad mostly because of his Find Weakness, which is a nasty piece of work for just about anybody to deal with, and Defender because of his overall flexibility. Witchcraft is too diluted IMO; she cant fend off a group, and none of her powers work fast enough to be a real serious threat; unless the PCs were already locked down, one of them would drop her quick before she became a real threat. Sapphire should be nasty due to the fact that several of the PCs are more vulnerable to energy than physical, and there are no rival dedicated blasters, but she just cant hit often enough and if she gets close enough to hit she'll get knocked out of the sky by any of the PCs, particularly Gravitic. Nighthawk is just a joke; he's too scattered. With 25 points in the right place he would gel into a real threat, but until then he just cant mount an offense. Granted, he would be one of the most fun to play as a PC because he's got the bases covered, but in a toe to toe he's in trouble.

 

 

 

By the way, thanx for the write up Marchwarden!

 

[Enforcer84]

Very cool thread. I want in too.

BTW, was the lower defenses to speed up combat thing universal? Are most villains down about 5 pts as well?

[i3ullseye]

Don't have much to add yet... but wanted to say this.

 

You have an amazingly good play group going there. At first read i thought Rook sounded too powerful. but once the concept clicked in my mind, that is an amazing piece of work. And Chitin is wonderful! Kudos to your players.

[Hermit]

A Challenge for the Champions

 

I don't have either CKC or Millennium City yet (But next week I should get a package with both) so maybe I am missing a group already existing, but does anyone else think that the Champions could use a Super Villain TEAM out to get them?

 

VIPER is great when done right, but an organization just isn't quite the same thing. Some of the individual hunted are fine, but others single handedly would challenge the whole team (Mechanon, Firewing, etc). Maybe a team of unified Super Villains who hate the Champions should be written up. The Avengers have their Masters of Evil, the Justice League has had the Injustice league... and so on.

[Yamo]

According to CKC, the Ultimates reside in Millenium City and have mixed it up with the Champions at least a couple times. They even have their own base and fancy superteam jet like the Champs.

 

The two teams' power levels are quite close for the most part.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Yamo

According to CKC, the Ultimates reside in Millenium City and have mixed it up with the Champions at least a couple times. They even have their own base and fancy superteam jet like the Champs.

 

The two teams' power levels are quite close for the most part.

 

Ah, thank you Yamo. See, this is what happens when we don't buy everything as soon as it comes out. *Sheepish* Let that be a lesson to the rest of you.

[Nato]

Yeah, I've always pictured the Ultimates as being the Champions primary recurring villain team. In fact I've drawn them fighting a couple of times, as have others like Chris Stevens.

 

BTW, If you want to see some kick-ass superfight pics, check out the upcoming UNTIL Superpowers Database book. Going to be filled with half-page pics of supers using their powers, and plenty of fightin'!

[pinecone]

Haven't had a chance to read the whole thread ...but I thought that if you paid points for a item you could just plain use it...of course if thats wrong 1 pt is easy enough to find...heck just lower your Stun pips by one...

[Tom]

Originally posted by pinecone

Haven't had a chance to read the whole thread ...but I thought that if you paid points for a item you could just plain use it...of course if thats wrong 1 pt is easy enough to find...heck just lower your Stun pips by one...

 

In general, that is correct. If you've bought a weapon with points, you are not required to have the appropriate Weapon Familiarity to use it. The gripe in this case is that Nighthawk doesn't have a Weapon Element with his Martial Arts which would allow him to add the bonuses of his martial techniques to his weapon.

 

In other words, Nighthawk doesn't receive any "non-proficiency" penalty for using his billy club w/o a WF ('course the WF for clubs is free ), but he can't add the +2 DCV and +6 DC of his Martial Strike to it because he didn't buy a Weapon Element with his Kung Fu.

[Marchwarden]

In "multi-reply" to Hermit and others:

 

I can't believe I forgot to recomend that Defender learn Tactics. Pretty obvious. In fact, Oratory and Bureaucracy (for dealing with the media and the government, respectively) would also be good choices for an experienced team leader.

 

Ironclad's defenses too low? Everyone's defenses are a bit light nowadays. However, as designated brick, he ought to at least be allowed to toughen up to the levels of the bricks in CKC (Ogre, Blackstar and their ilk).

 

Nighthawk? Yes, he does kind of grow on you. Perhaps, though, his first couple of XP should be spent on KS: Fashion, so that he will realize that his costume needs help (cough) bird hat (cough).

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Marchwarden

Nighthawk? Yes, he does kind of grow on you. Perhaps, though, his first couple of XP should be spent on KS: Fashion, so that he will realize that his costume needs help (cough) bird hat (cough).

Hawkman and Hawkgirl both wear bird hats. I don't see anyone picking on them. And if you really think about it, how far would a guy wearing a bat cowl (with pointy ears) really get in the world?

 

The strength of the genre is that it suspends both reality and stupidity of concept. How the characters are portrayed and the integrity of their actions is far more important than how stupid their costumes are. After all, in any other aspect of society we would laugh at people who wear their underwear outside of their clothes.

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Tom

In general, that is correct. If you've bought a weapon with points, you are not required to have the appropriate Weapon Familiarity to use it. The gripe in this case is that Nighthawk doesn't have a Weapon Element with his Martial Arts which would allow him to add the bonuses of his martial techniques to his weapon.

 

In other words, Nighthawk doesn't receive any "non-proficiency" penalty for using his billy club w/o a WF ('course the WF for clubs is free ), but he can't add the +2 DCV and +6 DC of his Martial Strike to it because he didn't buy a Weapon Element with his Kung Fu.

 

Um, he doesn't need it.

 

He paid points for the weapon, and so gets to use it at full power (which is why the slot is way underpowered, and he doesn't have Offensive Strike. Add the 10d6 Martial Strike and the 2d6 HA and voila you get 12d6.)

 

But, if you disarm him, he can't pick up any other club and use it at all because doesn't have that weapon's element.

 

This is how Steve explained it to me when I asked him about it in playtesting.

 

If he had just bought a 2d6 HA and defined it as "Fist of Stone maneuver", then he'd get to add it to his maneuver damage. But because he defined it's SFX as Club, he can't? Doesn't make much sense, in my book.

 

If this bothers you, cabbage a point from somewhere.

 

D

[Mavnn]

All sounding good, and like Nato I'm mainly chiming in to get the emails. But thought I should point our that you can use brought HTH attacks with martials arts without paying for the weapon element.

 

However, HA damage adds to damage from Martial Maneuvers which do normal damage; for example, a character who performs a Martial Strike could add his HA damage to the attack.

p. 119, FRED

 

Personally I'd still buy him the weapon element anyway - it's only 1 pt, and IMHO he should be able to use any club, not just his 'special' clubs.

 

Michael

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by Marchwarden

Nighthawk? Yes, he does kind of grow on you. Perhaps, though, his first couple of XP should be spent on KS: Fashion, so that he will realize that his costume needs help (cough) bird hat (cough).

 

Um....

 

*looks at his own avatar a moment, then winces*

 

[TheEmerged]

Sapphire: actually, the first place I'd put experience points for her is turning the Flash & Energy Blast slots into Variable instead of ultra. This would allow her to multiple attack them

[Guest Celt]

Originally posted by misterdeath

If he had just bought a 2d6 HA and defined it as "Fist of Stone maneuver", then he'd get to add it to his maneuver damage. But because he defined it's SFX as Club, he can't? Doesn't make much sense, in my book.

 

If this bothers you, cabbage a point from somewhere.

 

I figure the reason why he'd have to spend that 1 point to use the weapon with his martial arts is because of the point break he got for making it an Obvious Accessible Focus. If it was just "Fist of Stone Maneuver" he wouldn't get that break.

[Tim]

cool thread, Chiming in to get the notices

 

TimS

[Crimson Arrow]

Mavnn's view is my understanding of how it works. There was a discussion about this last year IIRC and that was the upshot of it.

 

I would always buy the Weapons Element for any Martial Art a character of mine had. It's ridiculous to say Nighthawk can use HIS Billy Club with a Martial Strike, but nope, can't use Daredevil's one. I can envisage that working for a particularly unusual weapon (such as a martial art using the character's claws or wings), but it does not seem sensible for MAs used with common weapons such as swords and clubs.

 

I think Celt is right about the point break for a Focus. However, one thing I am not sure about is this. If you have a "Fist/Foot of Stone" power, you could use that with any strike. However, if your HA is defined as a club, strictly speaking you could not use that with a strike defined as a kick only (see UMA). This is an extra disadvantage to the person who chose the club. You could say, "Well he's paid the points, he gets to tag the HA onto any hand-to-hand attack," but then what would happen if the character picked up another club? Do you let the same rule apply then?

 

I suppose it's a little like the way you are penalised if your EB or RKA is defined as thrown weapons when facing someone with Missile Deflection - they only need 5 points to deflect your attacks, but would need 20 points in that power to deflect a laser blast from an energy rifle. I'd hope that only the most munchkiny person would chose a concept based on these issues.

[misterdeath]

Well, the point break for having a focus is being able to be disarmed, or have the thing being taken away from you in some way.

 

But, the missle deflection thing is a good point.

 

And, yeah, I can see y'all's point. A martial artist should have the weapons element.

 

Except, well, nighthawk isn't a martial artist, per se. He's a gadget guy with some martial arts training. He's focused on the combat aspects, and none of the philosophy or roundedness of the styles. Hence, no weapons elements, no KS. It's all about doing damage and being effective in combat.

 

Hence, he knows how to use his cool billy club (balanced for him, designed by him, for him, and practiced with by him, to the exclusion of all else) and because he doesn't practice with them or train with them, no other billy club. Familiarity breeds contempt, and he has way too much familiarity with his weapon and no other.

 

Personally, I'd have made it some sort of duraplast gauntlets (that harden just an instant before impact, doing a little extra damage) for an OIF, instead.

 

Less confusion that way.

 

D

[Mavnn]

Do you think the team should have some decent mental powers (given their exemplar role)? I know Witchcraft has some, but they're a bit lacking...

 

Also, it seems this lack would make them a bit vulnerable to attacks by other mentalists - they don't have much MD between them and Witchcraft's mental powers would be hard pressed to defend the group from a dedicated mentalist.

 

So - should the champions be a larger team than it is? Should Witchcraft have dropped her mediocre physical combat abilities to specialise in esoteric and mental attacks? Do you think it's fine as is? Do you think this whole question is a thinly vailed excuse to keep the thread going?

 

Michael

[Hermit]

Regarding Mentalists

 

Well, few teams have every archetype on their roster. Eleven people might get a bit unwieldy.

 

However, you're not the first to think they could use an additional member. Rather than a mentalist though, more on these boards have lamented the lack of a speedster. Kinetik in CU has been invited to join, and may yet do so as (and if) the official time line continues. I am thinking of running an adventure where he does so regardless. Then again, I like Kinetik.

 

If one is keeping the Champions roughly on par with the PCs as they progress, then having Witchcraft buy up some mental defenses is certainly in keeping with her increasing 'wards' and discipline training.

 

Another thing to factor in is that Ironclad is an alien. Others will disagree with me, but a mentalist who can only affect human classes of minds maybe in for a hard time with him.

 

Eventually, if the CU progesses officially, we should see down the line some notes on new members, and any changes (or losses) in the old ones. Given the prevelence of PSI in Millennium City, I have no doubt that a runaway or renegade from that organization might turn to the Champions for help and eventually join.

 

Of course, these are just my opinions on it.