Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

[knuckles]

Lets suspend belief for a momnet and instead of stan lee creating the xmen for a new comic book lets say that the original xmen were created for a role playing game. you can just picture it...

 

GM: "Ok gang, you had time to come up with your characters and names so lets have a quick once around the table, Scott?"

 

Scott: "Yeah ok, my Guy can shoot optic beams from his eyes, he cant control them so i gave him a focus limitation in the form of a visor, since he looks like he only has one eye i called him cyclops"

 

Jean: "Cool, well, seeing as i'm the only girl here i called my character Marvel Girl, she's a low level telepath and has Telekinetic powers"

 

Bobby: "I like it, My Guy is called Iceman, he can turn himself into a human snowman and fire snowballs and freeze him enemies"

 

GM: "Maybe he should be called snowman then"

 

Bobby: "Ah well you see he's still learning to master the transformation, so snow is as good as he can manage just now, as i gain more experience i'll refine the transformation"

 

Gm: "Ah, some foresight into your characters development, nice, What about you Hank?"

 

Hank: "Well, my guys the brains of the team, he's a scientist trapped in a irregular body, he's acrobatic and stronger than the average joe, I call him the beast"

 

Gm: "Well that just leaves you Warren, Tell us about your guy"

 

Warren:"Umm, My guy can fly"

 

Gm: "Uh huh, go on"

 

Warren: "No thats it, he can fly, he's got wings, i call him angel"

 

Gm: "....right"

 

What i'm saying is, you wouldn't would you, if you were creating a new team of superheroes you would have him do something else other than just fly, and give him restrainable flight at that. So Angel Gets my vote as the worst character concept for a playable game character ever

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I've said this before. Angel is the wimpiest character in Marvel. By that I mean a character that was intended to be a recurring hero that would be taken seriously. The roleplaying challenge would be keeping him alive long enough to get to the radiation accident that made him into the later bad-a** Angel of Death without the help of a writer.

 

Then again what GM in his right mind would let someone play Beak. The current one, not the ripped future version.

[Lightray]

What i'm saying is' date=' you wouldn't would you, if you were creating a new team of superheroes you would have him do something else other than just fly, and give him restrainable flight at that. So Angel Gets my vote as the worst character concept for a playable game character ever [/quote']

Eh, he's got more on his character sheet than that.

 

Eagle eyesight. Hollow bones.... No?

 

Well, he's rich. He's really, really rich.

 

And he's purty. He's got money and he's got the honeys.

 

And that? Is the bestest character concept there is.

[MitchellS]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I happen to like Angel quite a bit. I've played 2 different characters with wings. The first was American Eagle who was a PRIMUS agent whose wings sprouted when he took the cyberline treatment. He has 20" flight and a 25 strength. His whole concept involved aerial fighting with move-throughs and move-bys. I had a great deal of fun with the character. The second was Skyhawk, and inventor who had 25" flight and electric bracers which had a 15" range. Basically he was like the Beast's personality and skills with Angel's money and powers.

 

I certainly understand that characters who only do 8-9d6 of damage aren't everyone's cup of tea but they certainly aren't useless, and as long as the personality is interesting the character is interesting. I thought the early Byrne/Clairemont Wolverine was boring. All he did was argue and kill everything. To each his own.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Yes, Angel is pretty lame by modern standards, and certainly by gamer standards. However, in his defense, he was the only one of the original X-Men with a bonafide practical movement power, so his lack of power was somewhat mitigated in context.

[Rapier]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Gm: "Well that just leaves you Warren, Tell us about your guy"

 

Warren:"Umm, My guy can fly"

 

Gm: "Uh huh, go on"

 

Warren: "No thats it, he can fly, he's got wings, i call him angel"

 

Gm: "....right"

 

What i'm saying is, you wouldn't would you, if you were creating a new team of superheroes you would have him do something else other than just fly, and give him restrainable flight at that. So Angel Gets my vote as the worst character concept for a playable game character ever

I SO want to disagree. I always thought Angel was tres cool. I liked him so much that I based my first Champions character, in part, on him.

 

However, I really can't. He wasn't very impressive from a super-power point of view was he?

 

But he is not alone.

 

Hawkgirl (and Hawkman) have a similar schtick...I mean give Angel a stick, a mace or a sword and they are pretty much the same.

 

IIRC, Aquaman wasn't all that fly to begin with either. Aquaman can breathe underwater and talk to fish! Ohhhhhh. There is something to envy.

 

Forge was kind of the Reed Richards sans rubberiness, at least in the beginning.

 

Wolverine was, originally, as we found out through flashbacks and isolated story lines, nothing more than a guy who healed fast.

 

Heroes are more than superpowers. Especially in comics. In fact, I tend to think some of the low-powered, non-flashy superheroes are more interesting.

[Agent X]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

[snip]

I certainly understand that characters who only do 8-9d6 of damage aren't everyone's cup of tea but they certainly aren't useless, and as long as the personality is interesting the character is interesting. I thought the early Byrne/Clairemont Wolverine was boring. All he did was argue and kill everything. To each his own.

There was quite a bit more going on with Wolverine than that.

[MitchellS]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

There was quite a bit more going on with Wolverine than that.

He didn't do much of anything the first dozen issues but act aggressive and chop into everything which got into his way. I found him to be the least interesting of the new X-men. To each his own.

[Lightray]

There was quite a bit more going on with Wolverine than that.

Logan: "Okay, my guy has, like, these metal claws and stuff. And he looks human - but he's not! He's an evolved wolverine. You know, like the really nasty mustelid? Anyway, maybe the High Evolutionary is involved. And he kills things, and has sideburns and a kickin' hairdo!"

 

GM: "Um. No."

 

Logan: "Okay, so he's like a ninja. No -- wait! He's a mutant ninja. Who's Canadian! And has, like, these metal claws and stuff. And he kills things, and has sideburns, and a kickin' hairdo!"

 

GM: "Uh..."

 

Jean: "Oooh."

 

Scott: *snicker*

 

Jean: "Scott, you are such a ponce. Hey, there, Logan -- how you doin'?"

[Agent 13]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I've always thought that the X-Men seemed more like Villains & Vigilantes characters than Champions characters.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Logan: "Okay' date=' my guy has, like, these metal claws and stuff. And he looks human - but he's not! He's an evolved [i']wolverine[/i]. You know, like the really nasty mustelid? Anyway, maybe the High Evolutionary is involved. And he kills things, and has sideburns and a kickin' hairdo!"

 

GM: "Um. No."

 

Logan: "Okay, so he's like a ninja. No -- wait! He's a mutant ninja. Who's Canadian! And has, like, these metal claws and stuff. And he kills things, and has sideburns, and a kickin' hairdo!"

 

GM: "Uh..."

 

Jean: "Oooh."

 

Scott: *snicker*

 

Jean: "Scott, you are such a ponce. Hey, there, Logan -- how you doin'?"

OMG ... that's some funny stuff .. rep for you!

[Sketchpad]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I dunno ... I always like Angel. I mean, you wanna talk useless? Let's look at Skin ... ooo ... he can stretch his skin ...

 

Angelo: "Okay ... I think I finally decided what I wanna play ..."

GM: "It's about time."

Monet: "No kidding"

Paige: "Hey, give him a second to explain."

Angelo: "Okay ... I wanna play a guy who can stretch ... but I wanna make him super-smart and ..."

GM: "Nope."

Angelo: "Why not?!"

Jonothon: "Dufus ... that's Mr. Fantastic! Reed's playing him on Saturday nights!"

GM: "Any other ideas Angelo? We'd like to start."

Angelo: "Uhh ..."

Monet: "C'mon Angie!"

Angelo: "H-how about a guy who can .. rather his skin can stretch?"

GM: "His skin?"

Angelo nods.

Monet: "Uck! Gross!"

Paige: "That's ... different."

Jonothon: "Bah .. wait'll you hear my conecept!"

[Bengal]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

It's not a bad character concept. But it does limit what other players can devise for the other members of the team.

 

 

I mean, all Angel can do is fly and see things. And buy things.

 

 

Okay, so he has those three things.

 

So you don't want a character who can fly faster, see farther, or buy more- since that would make Angel redundant. Angel's player would have nothing to do but make wiseass comments... and, uh "help" the statistically superior teammate he's been replaced with in many respects.

 

If you already have Angel on the team, and you add Iron Man, Angel can go dust the top shelves in the kitchen.

 

Angel was the only reason the Champions of LA needed to suck. They had other reasons (like Tony Isabella writing them), but they really only needed him.

[phydaux]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

he was the only one of the original X-Men with a bonafide practical movement power

 

Yeah, it was the whole X-Men concept where everyone was a norman human but has just one power.

 

Except high DEX and a TK Multipower and a Cold Powers Multipower are all cool, versitile stuff. A flight multipower is JUST a Flight multipower.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

To be fair, the early '60's were not far removed from the Golden Age, when anyone in good shape with a solid left hook could don a mask and colorful longjohns and battle the Forces of E-vil! Even if those forces had guns, somehow the rightness of your cause saw you through.

 

In the '60's if you had a superpower you became a superhero, or a supervillain. You almost never saw a neutral, or a guy who just wanted a normal life. Daredevil? Superkeen senses, except for being blind. Became a superhero. The Owl? He could glide - not fly, just glide. Became a supervillain. It was just what you did.

 

Mind you, nowadays creative writers (and gamers) can come up with lots of neat stuff you can do with wings besides just fly. Flap them to create massive gusts of wind to knock you enemies off their feet. Use them to strike blows (ever been wingbashed by a swan? Serious hurt.) and perhaps even develop a martial art used with wings. Bat flying projectiles out of the air. Use swooping divebomb attacks on groundbound targets, moving so fast they can't draw a bead on you.

 

And look really cool doing it, because let's face it, wings look really cool.

[Rapier]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

And look really cool doing it' date=' because let's face it, wings look really cool. [/quote']

I always thought they were kind of sexy too. The thought of being enfolded in those soft, warm wings while laying in a sunbeam that crosses the end of the bed...[quagmire] alllllll riiiiiiiight [/quagmire].

[Lightray]

And look really cool doing it' date=' because let's face it, wings look really cool. [/quote']

Hence my contention that Angel has not spent his points on teh kewl superpowerz, but to become teh chick magnet.

 

Let's review:

 

Wolverine - appeals to 14 year old boys.

 

Angel - appeals to teh ladies (& others!).

 

Warren Worthington III (IV? IX? LVXII? whatever). Millionaire playboy, baybee.

 

 

 

edit: because. well. you know.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

And just to be fair to Marvel, they did not corner the market on cheesy winged flying characters. Just see Dawnstar from the Legion of Superheroes from around the same time period. She had the powers of flight via wings (that worked in SPACE!) and tracking and that was it. But she was nice to look at though.

 

HM

[Vanguard00]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Anyone remember the cover of X-Men #1? Angel was carrying a bazooka. I'm thinkin' he was supposed to have a gimmick, but because of the whole Hawkman comparison they dropped it. He filled a personality/social niche, not a power set (although it could be argued that, since he was the only one who could fly, he did indeed fill a niche).

 

Angel has always been and will always be a favorite of mine precisely for the reasons some deride him: he's technically the weakest member, so he has to try that much harder. That appealed to me.

 

Well, that and wings are cool and chick magnets.

[Enoch]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I like Angel. But I really like Arch-Angel. Then again I go for moody somewhat dark heros.

 

But yeah, definately has that chick-magnet thing going.

[Rikathos]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I think the point of having Angel besides being the only Character in the group that had a movement power might have been the his relationship with his parents. He came from a rich family, he had good looks and charm. He was going to go places be somebody by societies standards.

Except for the Large White Wings that sprouted from his back. That made him a mutant and a freak. However, the irony was that the White wings added to his image. Here was a guy who looked like an "Angelic" figure but was seen as a threat to society. Harmful. (I guess if he really had to "Go" while flying around..that could be considered harmful. "Jesus! That must have been one big Seagull!") Joking aside Angel had a rocky relationship with his Father due to the Wings. Creating drama for Warren and helping the audience relate to him.

I believe the original appeal of the X-Men came from Teenagers who where growing up trying to find where they fit in dealing with Physical and emotional changes to themselves. Perhaps the Writers believed that the audience could relate to Angel.

 

And besides...He isn't as lame as Cypher (Wave's at Sketchpad )

I'm a mutant who can interpret languages.

Yeah, guess who's guarding the base?

 

Rikathos

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

And besides...He isn't as lame as Cypher (Wave's at Sketchpad )

I'm a mutant who can interpret languages.

Yeah, guess who's guarding the base?

 

Rikathos

Cypher was one of the most original and interesting character concepts ever, and the fact that he was wasted on both the writers at the time and large segments of the fanbase is a glowing condemnation of the medium IMO.

 

In my hands Cypher would have been mind boggling.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Cypher was one of the most original and interesting character concepts ever, and the fact that he was wasted on both the writers at the time and large segments of the fanbase is a glowing condemnation of the medium IMO.

 

In my hands Cypher would have been mind boggling.

Yeah! What he said!

[caris]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

Warren:"Umm, My guy can fly"

 

Gm: "Uh huh, go on"

 

Warren: "No thats it, he can fly, he's got wings, i call him angel"

 

Gm: "....right"

 

What i'm saying is, you wouldn't would you, if you were creating a new team of superheroes you would have him do something else other than just fly, and give him restrainable flight at that. So Angel Gets my vote as the worst character concept for a playable game character ever

 

Angel, when written in the original run of X-Men, did more than fly. He was like most winged super heroes, a low level speedster and a martial artist. During that run Angel performed a multiple target move-through disarm on agents fairly regularly.

 

The real problem wasn't Warren's powers (or lack there of), but with the writers that came later. There always seemed to be a bias against characters who have powers outside of a limited set or options, actually know how to fight effectively in hand-to-hand combat. Doug Ramsey is one example of this problem.

 

Storm is a better example. No one would have ever really thought of Storm as some sort of kick-ass hand-to-hand babe prior to the storylines that lead up to Storm loosing her powers. Of course, the fight to rescue Angel from the Morlocks and the fight with the thugs at the botanical gardens were pretty obvious set ups by the writers to enable them to portray Storm as a viable character after they took her powers away.

[Rapier]

Re: Angel, the worst original character concept ever?

 

I believe the original appeal of the X-Men came from Teenagers who where growing up trying to find where they fit in dealing with Physical and emotional changes to themselves. Perhaps the Writers believed that the audience could relate to Angel.

That would make a lot of sense, Stan-the-Man was very into the whole teenage angst while growing up thing. It wouldn't really surprise me to find out Angel is the favourite of a lot of people. I almost think he was designed that way.