Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

[Vulcan]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

A player in one of our games wanted to play a character he called "Captain Moneybags." 15 points of wealth, 5-Star Service (transplanted from Spycraft) and a boatload of other perks, contacts, and skills. And his bodyguard (bought as a Duplicate to avoid NPC considerations) "Armante," a powerful but not very bright brick in an expensive suit.

 

Sorry, that's well off subject, isn't it?

 

For game efficiency (and from a strictly mechanical standpoint), "Flying Dodge" is hard to beat. Abort to get +4 DCV and move. Who needs Dive for Cover? (I think it's broken as heck, but if a GM is silly enough to allow it after I point that out, he's earned what he's about to get!)

 

Stylewise? Unless your GM is heavy into realism (and assigns lots of modifiers to reflect it), there's really not a whole lot of difference between styles. Mechanically, a Headbutt is a Sinawali is a Punch is a Cross is a Bencao Kick. +0 OCV, +2 DCV, +2d6 damage, Martial Strike.

[Susano]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

A player in one of our games wanted to play a character he called "Captain Moneybags." 15 points of wealth, 5-Star Service (transplanted from Spycraft) and a boatload of other perks, contacts, and skills. And his bodyguard (bought as a Duplicate to avoid NPC considerations) "Armante," a powerful but not very bright brick in an expensive suit.

 

Sorry, that's well off subject, isn't it?

 

For game efficiency (and from a strictly mechanical standpoint), "Flying Dodge" is hard to beat. Abort to get +4 DCV and move. Who needs Dive for Cover? (I think it's broken as heck, but if a GM is silly enough to allow it after I point that out, he's earned what he's about to get!)

 

Stylewise? Unless your GM is heavy into realism (and assigns lots of modifiers to reflect it), there's really not a whole lot of difference between styles. Mechanically, a Headbutt is a Sinawali is a Punch is a Cross is a Bencao Kick. +0 OCV, +2 DCV, +2d6 damage, Martial Strike.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't move when your Abort to a Flying Dodge. It just let you perform it at the end of a Full Move.

[Vulcan]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Steve ruled in the Question forum that the move was included as part of the Abort. Broken as heck!

[Susano]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Wow... all that for 5 points?

[palaskar]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Between Supreme Serpent and Dauntless, I think things are pretty well covered.

 

Two more ideas:

 

Use an obscure style, for difference and character flavo. Frex, Systema (ironically Jean-Paul Valley's system was simply called... "The system" and could be retconned into Systema), Daestreza, Stav, or that style used in two most recent Batman movies. That's not Ninjitsu...IIRC, it's a Spanish/Gypsy MA...perhaps Zipota?

 

Have your character come up with his own style. Very effective for pure MA, or very skilled ones. Frex, Batman. He claimed to have taken the best from 10 styles in his comic, saying things like "From an old Chinese woman I learned the importance of chi." (This may actually refer to a real person, Sun Lu-tangs daughter, and one of the few female lineage holders.)

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Between Supreme Serpent and Dauntless, I think things are pretty well covered.

 

Two more ideas:

 

Use an obscure style, for difference and character flavo. Frex, Systema (ironically Jean-Paul Valley's system was simply called... "The system" and could be retconned into Systema), Daestreza, Stav, or that style used in two most recent Batman movies. That's not Ninjitsu...IIRC, it's a Spanish/Gypsy MA...perhaps Zipota?

 

Isn't that that Keysi Fighting Method in the new Batman movies?

 

Linkage for reference:

 

http://www.movies.martialarm.com/videos/Keysi_Fighting_System_Videos/Keysi_Fighting_System

 

http://kungfucinema.com/?p=975

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

...that style used in two most recent Batman movies. That's not Ninjitsu...IIRC' date=' it's a Spanish/Gypsy MA...perhaps Zipota?[/quote']

 

From what I know of it, the Keysi Fighting Method is in large part derived from the Inosanto Academy's blend of SE Asian arts and JKD.

 

One of the founders just happens to be from Spain... no idea about the gypsy thing... first I've heard of it, but I don't know the man personally.

[Alverant]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

At that point' date=' the Tai Chi guy is probably in better shape than the guy that beat the crap out of himself every night in his youth[/quote']

 

I am glad someone mention Tai Chi by now. The things Dauntless talks about is pretty much covered by Tai Chi. Legend says it's the first martial art based on the movements of animals. I'd put it in the top ten because of the mysticism surrounding it and the unnatural calm Tai Chi masters have. Being able to fight while not getting mad and casually dodging/blocking and attacks can have an enormous psychological effect.

[bubba smith]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Instead of Wuxia Hero' date=' I think his title should be "Thread Necromancer," or, going with the connotation of "bubba" he should do "Redneck Necromancer." [/quote']i like it thanks kirby

[DusterBoy]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Aikido only would work on a comic book,Kun fu wont even work there. Sure,against a man who dosent know how to fight,anything will work.

 

Brazilian jujitsu,Luta libre and Grecoroman-wrestling for grappling and submissions. Muay Thai and Boxing for standing. What professional fighters use today is a mixture of all that.Its called Mixed Martial Arts. If you dont belive me, watch the UFC or PrideFc.

 

Now, since this is Comics, i will go with Kun Fu and Pro-Wrestling. Nothing can beat a rock botton!! if you smell what the Rock is cooking!!.

 

If you had seen Kanetsuka Morehei (the guy who taught my aikido sensei), you'd take back that initial comment. The guy could just work magic - you couldn't get close to him without winding up on the floor.

Plus, he'd worked in mental hospital, and had much opportunity to use his art for real.

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

If you had seen Kanetsuka Morehei (the guy who taught my aikido sensei), you'd take back that initial comment. The guy could just work magic - you couldn't get close to him without winding up on the floor.

Plus, he'd worked in mental hospital, and had much opportunity to use his art for real.

 

My brother who is no master, nor does he even claim to be any good taught me several things about Aikido, and frankly, it's a SUPERIOR style, except for one flaw and that's based on the fighter. Reflexes. If you have them, you can pretty much ruin your opponent's day. Otherwise, you'll get beaten up.

 

Aikido is not for me, but it IS a good style if you want to turn your opponent against them.

 

I believe it's called 'Origami with People' among the less serious practicioners. Having seen my brother's masters in action? I'll believe it.

[Twilight]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

My brother who is no master, nor does he even claim to be any good taught me several things about Aikido, and frankly, it's a SUPERIOR style, except for one flaw and that's based on the fighter. Reflexes. If you have them, you can pretty much ruin your opponent's day. Otherwise, you'll get beaten up.

 

Aikido is not for me, but it IS a good style if you want to turn your opponent against them.

 

I believe it's called 'Origami with People' among the less serious practicioners. Having seen my brother's masters in action? I'll believe it.

 

Well wouldn't the lack of reflexes thing be a flaw in any fighting style? I mean if you don't have the reflexes you're liable to get clobbered no matter what fighting style you're using aren't you?

[assault]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

A player in one of our games wanted to play a character he called "Captain Moneybags." 15 points of wealth, 5-Star Service (transplanted from Spycraft) and a boatload of other perks, contacts, and skills. And his bodyguard (bought as a Duplicate to avoid NPC considerations) "Armante," a powerful but not very bright brick in an expensive suit.

 

Sorry, that's well off subject, isn't it?

 

Nothing wrong with occasional thread drift.

 

In the 1960s Green Hornet TV series, the Hornet's sidekick Kato was played by Bruce Lee.

 

The Crimson Avenger was a Green Hornet rip-off, with a sidekick/chaffeur who could be turned into something similar.

 

That's enough precedent for this kind of character.

 

I like the Duplication idea. I might take a look at it.

[Mr. R]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Nin ten do

 

Ohh that was good.

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Well wouldn't the lack of reflexes thing be a flaw in any fighting style? I mean if you don't have the reflexes you're liable to get clobbered no matter what fighting style you're using aren't you?

 

Not quite. Uhm, in Aikido most of the maneuvers require you to move and intercept someone elses strike, which means if your hit, you can't do it. Or at least not without hurting yourself more.

 

The style requires a lot of careful positioning and excellent timing.

 

Most other styles don't as although, yes, not getting hit is ideal, you're not dependent on your opponent attacking you for the most part. In fact, more often than not, your trying to put him down first.

 

Admittedly this is not an Aikido only flaw, but it's the best one I know.

[Kirby]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Could we depart from the "my kung fu is better than your kung fu" derail and talk about the Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts? I'm sure you can start a thread in NGD if you want to continue this side discussion.

[Comic]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

There's two kinds of martial arts instructor.

 

1. Some old guy who can barely move hobbles around shouting at his students about the right way to break boards and score points.

 

2. Some old guy who looks like he should barely be able to move tosses his students around like rag dolls and doesn't say a whole lot.

 

Which sums up the 'mine is better than yours' debate from the point of view of hobbling old guys, and we can go back to what works in comics:

 

acrobatics, breakfall, contortion, disarming, evasion, flight, gymnastics, hijinx, iaido, jumping -- the top ten elements from A-J that I like to see in graphical form moving a story forward.

 

Punches are aesthetically ugly, and stabbing is frankly boring in its brute force portrayal.

 

Lifting a villainous brick six stories into the air and diving him down through the top of his gadgeteering mastermind's disguised mobile tankvan at a crucial turnpoint in the fight while delivering a pithy monologue -- that's what I want to see.

 

YMMV

[Vulcan]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

It occurs to me that one of the things that weighs heavily in rating a martial art is flexibility - how many things can it do?

 

While it is very difficult (at best!) to rate real-life martial arts this way, in HEROs it's actually pretty simple. It's the martial art with the most maneuvers.

 

So, with that in mind (and a copy of the UMA in hand), the most flexible martial art is....

 

Fencing, with 17 maneuvers! (and the weakness of needing a sword...)

 

Second place goes to Kung Fu at 14 maneuvers.

 

Third is a tie between Jujitsu, Lua, & Ninjitsu at 13 maneuvers each.

 

Honorable mention to all the arts with 10 or more maneuvers: Aikido, Arnis/Escrima, Arte Del'Abbracciare, Bando, Cinematic Brawling/Dirty Infighting (), Hapkido, Hsing-I, Krav Maga, Penjak-Silat, & Tai Ch'i.

 

Of course, this doesn't take into account an art having a large amount of overlap between maneuvers (Kenjustsu, for example, is a lot of strikes, with only Dogde and Disarm for variety). So this is very much a relative measure of flexibility, not an absolute.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

Of course' date=' this doesn't take into account an art having a large amount of overlap between maneuvers (Kenjustsu, for example, is a lot of strikes, with only Dogde and Disarm for variety). So this is very much a relative measure of flexibility, not an absolute.[/quote']

 

It also doesn't take into account that Steve can only afford to do so much research

[DusterBoy]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

It also doesn't take into account that Steve can only afford to do so much research

 

LOL! There is also something called stav - in this context it can be summed up as Viking martial arts - although it encompasses much more than that.

[Vulcan]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

If you think you know enough about it, write it up and post it! I'm sure there's a bunch of people on the boards here who would be interested.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

LOL! There is also something called stav - in this context it can be summed up as Viking martial arts - although it encompasses much more than that.

 

Well, that and there are a lot of Maneuvers specific arts SHOULD have that they don't. Here's an example where this issue is discussed somewhat:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65386

 

There's also a ton of fictional martial arts and, in the context of a comic book game, those tend to be the most bad ass forms. In the Marvel universe, K'un L'un arts are probably superior to any normal form of Kung Fu, as is Yengtao in the Champions universe.

[Kirby]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

In a Dark Champions campaign I used to be in, our acrobatic clown, Harlequin, had capoeira, which he strangely used only in the training room.

 

Eventually, when we started doing the subplots for the Tournament of the Dragon, he learned the fictional drunken clown fighting style and actually used it effectively in combat. Until he faced Card Shark and "with all the anger he could muster" punched him for 3d6 points of damage.

 

In a Western Hero campaign, I played a little Chinese boy who had drunken style kung fu. The PCs all thought he got drunk easily because he'd usually take a "shot" of whatever alcohol was available and then go all wobbly. He was only able to use it in a fight once (the campaign didn't last very long) and was able to use a dodge (scrambling underneath a table and chairs) and a legsweep (swinging a broom around with a "what was that?" question).

 

 

I forget the name of it right now, but there's also a "flying" martial art style that we used very efficiently as well.

[David Blue]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

I recommend professional wrestling as the number one unarmed martial art.

 

Anyone who wouldn't be in a position to do a course and learn this art, because they don't have the brawn, endurance and pain tolerance for a career throwing and being thrown around by huge, beefy individuals, or because they lack the needed flamboyance, or because they don't have the control (when they are hit and hurt) to refrain from injuring people, or because they can't put together the fees for a teacher, had better reconsider a career as Batman or something like him.

 

I'm not saying you should go ahead and actually be a professional wrestler as your job. That might cut into your crime-fighting schedule, or make your physique and style overly recognizable to fans. But I do think the requirements and skills of professional wrestling are as near mandatory as you can get for a would-be Batman.

 

Other good martial include boxing, krav marga and escrima.

 

However if your primary martial art is boxing, and you are training to be Batman, you have to be a heavyweight. You don't have to be very big. Rocky Marciano wasn't. But your fists have to carry heavyweight authority, otherwise you need to rethink your aspirations. If you are skilled but you need to fight only within your weight class, you are not Batman.

[David Blue]

Re: Ten Best Superhero Martial Arts

 

It occurs to me that one of the things that weighs heavily in rating a martial art is flexibility - how many things can it do?

I agree that this matters, but I think it's more important that it do what you need it to do. "Everything I need and nothing I don't" is a valid concept.

 

While it is very difficult (at best!) to rate real-life martial arts this way, in HEROs it's actually pretty simple. It's the martial art with the most maneuvers.

 

So, with that in mind (and a copy of the UMA in hand), the most flexible martial art is....

 

Fencing, with 17 maneuvers! (and the weakness of needing a sword...)

I think what matters most is that the art (be in character and) have the +1 to "use art with weapon" for every weapon that seriously matters to you, plus all your absolute "must have" maneuvers for that character. To buy an armed martial art for your favorite weapon, and then a different martial art to fight unarmed (in effect buying maneuvers twice, once armed and once unarmed) is too costly.

 

I think many more superhero characters would profit from a primary focus on kung fu or ninjutsu, or for bricks who use a lot of improvised weapons perhaps professional wrestling, than will stay happy with a choice of fencing or kenjutsu. The bare-knuckle brawl is too important in the superhero genre for it to be a good idea to ignore it, for most characters.

 

If you are not going to use a martial art that helps you both fighting unarmed and using your favorite weapon, I think there's a strong roleplaying / simulation case for taking a straight unarmed martial art. I was watching my Underworld DVD the other day, and I noticed that Victor's big sword was purely for dishing out damage. All his martial moves - the highly skilled moves that he could tag and control a faster, stronger opponent with - were unarmed, and he was winning with these unarmed moves till Selene intervened. Morpheus, in the Matrix movies, also likes a sword for dishing out more damage, but may be more effective on the whole unarmed, because of his excellent throws.