Trying to evade con-stun

[Beregond]

Hi all, I'm new to Hero System, and attempting to build a new power for my character. A little background: I'm playing in a fantasy hero campaign, in which my character has become exceptionally paranoid. So, a good deal of the XP I have spent have been used for powers that can defend me against the other PC's abilities. Most of their nifty powers can be counteracted without too much XP, but one power is very difficult; it does an enormous amount of stun damage (around fourty five); all he has to do is hit me once and I'll be con-stunned and helpless. My first thought was to buy constitution as a power, with the disad "only works against con-stun," but that seems really expensive. Then I had an idea: What if I had a power that triggered whenever I was con-stunned, and basically gave me an action to recover. How would I stat that out? The purpose of the power is not to make me immune, but to give me a reprieve (I'm guessing it would only work once per turn) so that if that player attacked me, I would have a fighting chance.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

First of all, there is no such game term as "con-stun"; it is simply "being stunned". Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

 

Possibly some form of Damage Reduction with appropriate Limitations.

I would call "only against being STUNNED" at least a -3/4 Limitation on CON as it would automatically include the "No Figured Characteristics" at -1/2 and would not defend against being hit by Mental Attacks Based On CON or be used in CON Rolls (which I have seen some GMs use for thinks like how drunk a character is or how well a character can stay awake after longs periods without sleep).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

4 simple ways to avoid being stunned in combat:

1. higher CON
   
2. higher straight defenses
   
3. Damage Reduction
   
4. Automation (not normally legal for PC's)
   

HM

[ghost-angel]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Here's my favorite trick against STUN damage in general:

 

PD; Only Vs. STUN (-1)

 

works against KAs too.

 

You can still get Hurt (as in, take BODY) if a lot of your Def is bought that way, but rarely are you stunned or knocked out.

[Alibear]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

The extra action to recover from being stunned sounds like a form of duplication with lots of limitations to me .

 

You must be playing a very high powered fantasy if 45 stun doesn't make you unconcious never mind stunned.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Hi all' date=' I'm new to Hero System, and attempting to build a new power for my character. A little background: I'm playing in a fantasy hero campaign, in which my character has become exceptionally paranoid. So, a good deal of the XP I have spent have been used for powers that can defend me against the other PC's abilities. Most of their nifty powers can be counteracted without too much XP, but one power is very difficult; it does an enormous amount of stun damage (around fourty five); all he has to do is hit me once and I'll be con-stunned and helpless. My first thought was to buy constitution as a power, with the disad "only works against con-stun," but that seems really expensive. Then I had an idea: What if I had a power that triggered whenever I was con-stunned, and basically gave me an action to recover. How would I stat that out? The purpose of the power is not to make me immune, but to give me a reprieve (I'm guessing it would only work once per turn) so that if that player attacked me, I would have a fighting chance.[/quote']

 

Nasty nasty nasty... well, at least you are playing defensive instead of offensive .

 

The quickest, easiest way to accomplish this is to buy the Automaton Power (GM permitting) Cannot Be Stunned. It costs 15 points. If you really want to get specific, put Only Versus [sFX] and RSR (CON Roll), where the SFX is what SFX the other character's attack is. Gets really cheep.

 

Another quick easy way that doesn't require Automaton rules is to just buy up the CON (with the same Limitations as above) with Only To Prevent Being Stunned (a -1 in my opinion).

 

Other possibilities include Damage Reduction, extra Defenses, etc.

 

About the free action to recover thing... that's tricky and probably too expensive to bother with. Personally, I'd require it to be bought as enough SPD to give you a 12, with the Limitation Only To Recover From Being Stunned (a -4). Assuming you have a SPD of 6, that will cost you 12 points where for only three point more you could just buy Cannot Be Stunned and never worry about it. No point on putting any additional Limitation on something like this though, as it's not gonna reduce the cost much.

[CourtFool]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I have nothing to add to the above constructs. I would suggest looking into Damage Shield though.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I have nothing to add to the above constructs. I would suggest looking into Damage Shield though.

 

Not a bad idea of the attacker in question is using a HTH attack...

[CourtFool]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Not a bad idea of the attacker in question is using a HTH attack...

 

I figure you got a little better than 50/50 in a Fantasy campaign. I guess I should have added Missile Deflection/Reflection.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I'd go with extra CON - only to avoid STUNNed results. I'd give a -2 overall (including No Figured Characteristics - because I thionk No Figured on CON is vastly under-rewarded), but I'd probably also make you pay double if it exceeded NCM. as you really are buying up a stat (even though a stat with a limitation is technically a power).

 

Get your CON to equal STUN-1 for purposes of Stunning, and you lterally can't be Stunned - you'll be knocked out instead.

 

So that sets the range at my -2, the -1 above and possibly -1 1/2 (if the -1 is intended to be over and above -1/2 for No Figured)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Hi all' date=' I'm new to Hero System, and attempting to build a new power for my character. A little background: I'm playing in a fantasy hero campaign, in which my character has become exceptionally paranoid. So, a good deal of the XP I have spent have been used for powers that can defend me against the other PC's abilities. Most of their nifty powers can be counteracted without too much XP, but one power is very difficult; it does an enormous amount of stun damage (around fourty five); all he has to do is hit me once and I'll be con-stunned and helpless. My first thought was to buy constitution as a power, with the disad "only works against con-stun," but that seems really expensive. Then I had an idea: What if I had a power that triggered whenever I was con-stunned, and basically gave me an action to recover. How would I stat that out? The purpose of the power is not to make me immune, but to give me a reprieve (I'm guessing it would only work once per turn) so that if that player attacked me, I would have a fighting chance.[/quote']

 

Welcome to the boards!

 

I'd be interested to know how the character you are worried about has his/her ability built if it can do 45 stun reliably, as that is around a 13d6 attack, 65 active points, which does seem a bit excessive. It could, of course, be a killing attack, but that would be rather less consistent...

 

Also it would be handy to know what sort of stats your character has - can you almost survive the 45 or is it a whiteout?

 

I'd be inclined to go with limited defences rather than increased CON to avoid being stunned: limited forms of damage reduction can do wonders....

 

On the other hand, many a general has observed that the best defences is a strong offence, and damage shield has already been suggested, which is OK if it is a melee attack. A triggered killing attack can also discourage people from taking advantage, as can a small cumulative mind control with a single command 'don't hurt me'. It'd be useful to know what your potential opponent's strengths and weaknesses are.

 

Also I'm intrigued as to why you've become so paranoid. Is it the way the other players play, or are you the party thief? Er, rogue.

[zornwil]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I'll just say that normally, to prevent stunning specifically, I have bought CON only to prevent stunning. I don't think it's too expensive; I've seen -1 as a common limiter, though -1/2 is still an acceptable deal IMHO.

[Beregond]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

First of all, I'd like to say that you guys absolutely rock. I definitely wasn't expecting to get so many responces so quickly. Oh, and sorry for using the wrong term.

 

Anyway, more info: Yes, it would knock me out outright, but only by three points (so I just need to increase my ED and stun by four to remain standing). The reason I'm so paranoid is because there are three types of mage in the campaign setting, and I am considered to be part of the one group that most people (including two party members) dislike. I'm not sure how the other guy statted his power, all I know is it's a 2" radius attack that does 4 body 45 stun.

 

Anyway, about your ideas: Really, I don't like buying my con too high, I don't want to be completely invulnerable to being stunned. Whatever I do, I'll probably take the power as one or two charges per day.

[Lanith]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I can't arguee with the above ideas, but personally you're playing a mage. 50% damage reduction (only vs magic) sounds like a sinch to me.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Anyway' date=' about your ideas: Really, I don't like buying my con too high, I don't want to be completely invulnerable to being stunned. Whatever I do, I'll probably take the power as one or two charges per day.[/quote']

 

Like I said, put a Limitation on it so that it only protects against Stunning from one specific SFX (the SFX of the other character's attack). It's cheeper and you aren't suddenly immune to being Stunned.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Here's an unorthodox idea (one which many here will probably tag as "illegal") which will definately require GM's permission to apply.

 

Try Healing: Stun on a Trigger.

 

Whenever the character is hit by an attack that would stun him, the Healing kicks in and immediately heals the Stun points. If it heals enough Stun to prevent the character from being Stunned, then he's not. Healing of 2D6 or so should be sufficient most of the time, but this wouldn't be able to erase the Stunning effects of bigger, nastier attacks...

 

Yes, I know its illegal (FREd says nothing about HEALING being able to remove the effects of Stunned...but then again, it also doesn't say it can't) just throwing out some ideas here...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I'm not sure how the other guy statted his power' date=' all I know is it's a 2" radius attack that does 4 body 45 stun.[/quote']

What the heck?! All I can think is that it is a really powerful attack with Reduced Penetration, Increased Stun Multiplier, and/or other Limitations to reduce the Body damage (like, "Does No Body," on half the dice?). Either that, or the GM let him buy Increased Stun multiplier like 6 times! I would be more interested in knowing what the heck is up with that Power; it looks suspicious to me.

 

Anyway, the most important thing I have to say is: if you are playing this sort of game with the other players, you can't win. It will turn into a big one-up game, people will get ticked, etc. Just don't go there. It's not worth it, and it sounds like you are letting it get to you to the detriment of your gaming experience. If the other players really want to go after party members, I would suggest talking to your GM about it, and/or trying to be the, "bigger man," by re-routing their energy toward solving the problems that the whole group must deal with.

 

If it doesn't affect your adventuring, you could also just roll your eyes and put up with it ("Okay. He knocked me out again. Good for him. Now can we get on with the traveling already?"). I highly encourage you to just not take it personally. Laugh it off, and let them play their games if they want. You can have fun in other ways, like when you get the chance to show off the cool Skills you bought with the points you didn't use for PKing.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Here's an unorthodox idea (one which many here will probably tag as "illegal") which will definately require GM's permission to apply.

 

Try Healing: Stun on a Trigger.

 

Whenever the character is hit by an attack that would stun him, the Healing kicks in and immediately heals the Stun points. If it heals enough Stun to prevent the character from being Stunned, then he's not. Healing of 2D6 or so should be sufficient most of the time, but this wouldn't be able to erase the Stunning effects of bigger, nastier attacks...

 

Yes, I know its illegal (FREd says nothing about HEALING being able to remove the effects of Stunned...but then again, it also doesn't say it can't) just throwing out some ideas here...

 

Count me in for saying it's "illegal". Nothing wrong with how it's written up, but in order for the Healing to be triggered, the character whould have to be Stunned already. I do believe there is a ruling in the FAQ (or elsewhere on the boards) that said the only way to recover from being Stunned is to lose a Phase doing it, and not take damage during that Phase.

[Gary]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I like the Duplication idea. For a 200 point character and assuming it's a spell that must be cast at the beginning of each day to reset:

 

Duplication Triggered by Stunning (+1/4) 50 Active Points

 

1 Charge (-2) Costs End (-1/2) Gestures (-1/4) Incantations (-1/4) Concentrate 0 DCV (-1/2) 5 minutes to cast (-2) Requires Magic Roll (-1/2)

 

7 Real Points

 

Plus

 

Extradimensional Travel to 1 single dimension Triggered (+1/4) 25 Active Points

 

Same Limitations as above plus Linked (-1/2)

 

3 Real Points.

 

Total 10 Real Points

 

This spell creates a full strength unstunned duplicate while sending the original to a safe dimension at the same time. The special effect of the 'duplication' is that instead of the duplicate appearing out of nowhere, he teleports in from the safe dimension while sending the Stunned original there simultaneously.

 

[Silbeg]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Here's an unorthodox idea (one which many here will probably tag as "illegal") which will definately require GM's permission to apply.

 

Try Healing: Stun on a Trigger.

 

Whenever the character is hit by an attack that would stun him, the Healing kicks in and immediately heals the Stun points. If it heals enough Stun to prevent the character from being Stunned, then he's not. Healing of 2D6 or so should be sufficient most of the time, but this wouldn't be able to erase the Stunning effects of bigger, nastier attacks...

 

Yes, I know its illegal (FREd says nothing about HEALING being able to remove the effects of Stunned...but then again, it also doesn't say it can't) just throwing out some ideas here...

 

I would have to chime in and say, "Close, but no cigar".

 

However, while Healing probably cannot do this, what about a transform? (assuming the character has 10 BODY) -

16	Can't Be Stunned: Minor Transform 3d6+1 (standard effect: 10 points) (Stunned to Unstunned), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (66 Active Points); Limited Target (self) (-1), 4 Charges (-1), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Activation Roll 14- (-1/2)	[4]

Yes, it is expensive, but the power should be. The dice totals should be tweaked based on your BODY characteristic, this assumes a base BODY of 10.

 

To explain the "whys"...

4 charges: (is a magical effect, only works a few times a day)

Activation: Nothing this good should be a given!

 

The rest should be pretty obvious... not sure I used the limited target correctly, but it is pretty close.

 

I figured a minor transform, but it would be up to the GM to determine this for sure.

 

What do you all think?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

I do believe there is a ruling in the FAQ (or elsewhere on the boards) that said the only way to recover from being Stunned is to lose a Phase doing it' date=' and not take damage during that Phase.[/quote']

Do you really have to take no damage? I know that is a requirement of taking a Recovery to gain Stun and End, but I think it's a little extreme for Recovering from Being Stunned. All I have to do is Stun you, and then I just keep attacking and attacking and attacking, with incredibly weak powers that will hit but do very little damage (e.g. EB: 1d6; AoE, 1 hex, accurate; Penetrating).... Of course, if I can do enough Stun damage to Stun you a second time that's different.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Do you really have to take no damage? I know that is a requirement of taking a Recovery to gain Stun and End' date=' but I think it's a little extreme for Recovering from Being Stunned. All I have to do is Stun you, and then I just keep attacking and attacking and attacking, with incredibly weak powers that will hit but do very little damage (e.g. EB: 1d6; AoE, 1 hex, accurate; Penetrating).... Of course, if I can do enough Stun damage to Stun you a second time that's different.[/quote']

 

Continuing to take damage while Stunned keeps you Stunned. It represents keeping a target that's off balance off balance.

 

The trick is that this only applies if the character takes damage before his DEX on the Segment his next Phase is in. So it doesn't come up often.

[lemming]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Do you really have to take no damage? I know that is a requirement of taking a Recovery to gain Stun and End' date=' but I think it's a little extreme for Recovering from Being Stunned. All I have to do is Stun you, and then I just keep attacking and attacking and attacking, with incredibly weak powers that will hit but do very little damage (e.g. EB: 1d6; AoE, 1 hex, accurate; Penetrating).... Of course, if I can do enough Stun damage to Stun you a second time that's different.[/quote']

Yep. And I'm one who thinks it's lame. I basically house ruled that the enough has to get through to stun you again. That way I don't have anyone delaying to smack someone at the top of a segment.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Yep. And I'm one who thinks it's lame. I basically house ruled that the enough has to get through to stun you again. That way I don't have anyone delaying to smack someone at the top of a segment.

Agreed. I think you are penalized enough by having to lose a Phase, have significantly decreased defenses, and have all of your (non-Persistant) Powers turned off. This kind of rules leads to the brick going around Stunning people, and the speedster running behind him with the toothpick attack, keeping them Stunned until they fall over from lack of Stun. It's not so much the concept that annoys me, but the total downhill slide and lock-out potential that can keep someone out of combat indefinitely--well, until they drop--without any way of balancing it.

 

P.S. You almost might as well just drop people to 0 Stun if they are Stunned, and give away the full Knockout.

[zornwil]

Re: Trying to evade con-stun

 

Yep. And I'm one who thinks it's lame. I basically house ruled that the enough has to get through to stun you again. That way I don't have anyone delaying to smack someone at the top of a segment.

I think we've all been playing that way without even thinking about it.

 

Then again, when you guys get hit hard enough to be stunned, you're often either knocked out or about to be anyway!