largosama Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I just introduced Eurostar to my campaign last night (Durak is one of my PC's hunted). Durak, Mentalla, and Ultrasonique and the PCs squared off. I briefly went over their powers to myself before the players came over, but I completely overlooked the fact that those three have OODLES of speed, even the bulky brick Durak. Anyway, it was the first true 'villain' team for them to face off against and I'm happy to say that it came off quite nicely. The villains were beating the crap out the PCs for the first part before the players got their wits about them and started really fighting back. The fight was starting to look like a total victory for the players until an outside event stopped the fight. The real fun part was Durak versus Johnny Bam (a PC brick). Both have 70 strength and lots of either armor or damage resistance. The sheer amount of stun that was done was just staggering and would have turned any non-brick into a pancake.. fun fun! At any rate... anybody with Eurostar stories in their game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar has shown up in just about every Champs campaign I've ever played in or GMed. At least since Classic Enemies came out for Fourth Edition, Eurostar has been the top of the heap of published CU villain teams. Tough, fast, versatile, using excellent teamwork, and willing if not eager to use deadly force. Their motives readily lend themselves to serious plots for major stakes. On top of that most of them are interesting characters who are fun to explore and roleplay. Your PCs should be grateful they didn't run into the 4E incarnation of Eurostar, though. There were eight of them, and even the members who have been in both versions of the team were probably more dangerous, pound for pound, under their 4E builds. If you find Eurostar's speed intimidating, Pantera in particular was lightning quick, hard to hit, and could (and would) eviscerate all but the most strongly-Defended targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Bora - SPD 8 WhiteFlame - SPD 7 The Whip - SPD 7 Pantera - SPD 8 Am I missing anyone They can't beat Lung Hung the Red Dragon - SPD 10 in the Adventure Higher in the Perrin Universe. QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Bora - SPD 8 WhiteFlame - SPD 7 The Whip - SPD 7 Pantera - SPD 8 Am I missing anyone They can't beat Lung Hung the Red Dragon - SPD 10 in the Adventure Higher in the Perrin Universe. QM Yeah, I actually thought the 5E characters were slower than the 4E team. Fiacho was 6, now 5. Durak was 5, now 5. Mentalla was 5, now 6. Ultrasonique was 6, now 5. Fuermacher and Scorpia were both added and are both 5s. And they lost all the people posted above. They're like grandparent's now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Your PCs should be grateful they didn't run into the 4E incarnation of Eurostar, though. There were eight of them, and even the members who have been in both versions of the team were probably more dangerous, pound for pound, under their 4E builds. If you find Eurostar's speed intimidating, Pantera in particular was lightning quick, hard to hit, and could (and would) eviscerate all but the most strongly-Defended targets. Between the 33-or-so-Dex, 8 Spd, HKA, and Find Weakness, Pantera would shred most characters in a straight up one-on-one. Fortunately, you could always fall back to team tactics... ...except Eurostar was good at those, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Between the 33-or-so-Dex' date=' 8 Spd, HKA, and [i']Find Weakness[/i], Pantera would shred most characters in a straight up one-on-one. Fortunately, you could always fall back to team tactics... ...except Eurostar was good at those, too. Man you weren't kidding about Pantera. I've had players actually blanche when I put just her counter on the game table. The duo of Mentalla and Pantera terrorized games for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Mentalla may have slightly higher Speed in her 5E version, but her 4E Mental Powers went up to 16d6/Damage Classes as opposed to the 14 she does now, so I'd say that she's at least even powerwise. Pantera had 35 DEX and a 2d6 HKA (which she could raise to 4d6 with her STR), plus 1 CSL with her HKA. Oh, and 14- Find Weakness. Yeah, she induced quite a bit of blanching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuz the Evil Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Yeah, I still use the 4E version... didn't like a number of the CU changes when 5th Ed. came out, so I just stuck with what worked for me - didn't want to retcon my own Champions Universe anyhoo. Heck, I still use Terror Inc. and have no plans to have Professor Muerte 'go into that great beyond'. Basically I took what I liked (many of the rule modifications, couple of major incidents) and left the rest - game system universe 'Pot Luck'. I definitely agree that the 4th Edition Eurostar is a terrifying example of badassitude. Fiacho, Durak, Bora, Mentalla, White Flame, the Whip, and Le Sone. Capable of efficiently slaughtering any but the most well designed hero teams. I love these guys. (Who's the 'eighth member'? I'm blanking for some reason... those are the only ones I can recall for the life of me.) I've had them beat down heros in like 4 or 5 campaigns now, they almost always show up eventually. The heros have beaten them up several times as well, but I don't think the whole team has ever been captured in a campaign I've run. At least 2 or 3 of them flee the scene and work to free their captured comrades later on. Usually Bora and one or two others. Most of the PCs I've worked with tend to focus on Mentalla/Pantera/Durak. Mentalla is the only one of those three who's ever escaped a scenario where the heros one. Mmmmm.... Eurostar. Thanks for the memories, that warms my little GM's heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I've never used all of Eurostar at once (except in storyline, and only indirectly) as a GM, but I gamed against them once. We had our collective arses handed to us the first time around. We spent the rest of the weekend-marathon-session hunting them down one by one. We still almost lost two PCs taking Pantera, IIRC, mine being one other (GM fiat kept me alive). I've just never thought I could do them justice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaras Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar stories....hmmm. My pc is currently 'suffering' from multiple personality syndrome (when i say multiple i mean several thousand), except the minds are real. Mentala in our campaign is...unbalanced. I mean unbalanced in power levels and general state of mind. The reasons? She has tenous controll over 3 sitharns. Every time we have met Eurostar Mentala tends to lick her lips. Regardless of whether we meet on friendly terms or not my pc is always treated as a meal. We once had the cringeworthy experience of being at the russian version of stronghold just before eurostar escaped. Suffice to say when Fiachio said 'Get out of my way children" we didnt hand around long. Of course these days we number 14 pcs all around 400-500 points, Eurostar tend to behave themselves when we are around . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaras Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! (Who's the 'eighth member'? I'm blanking for some reason... those are the only ones I can recall for the life of me.) Furemacher? in my experience the 'eigth member' always turns out to be an invisible Mentala you thought wasnt with the rest of the team...until she starts sucking out your mind of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I definitely agree that the 4th Edition Eurostar is a terrifying example of badassitude. Fiacho, Durak, Bora, Mentalla, White Flame, the Whip, and Le Sone. Capable of efficiently slaughtering any but the most well designed hero teams. I love these guys. (Who's the 'eighth member'? I'm blanking for some reason... those are the only ones I can recall for the life of me.) You're missing Pantera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Furemacher? in my experience the 'eigth member' always turns out to be an invisible Mentala you thought wasnt with the rest of the team...until she starts sucking out your mind of course. I think he was joking about forgetting since the member he forgot was Pantera, whom everyone else mentioned ahead of him and he used her name later in his post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! The 5th versions of Eurostar aren't quite as fast, but they have plenty of power nonetheless. Fiacho can pack a wallop with his martial arts and Find Weakness. Mentalla only had a slight power drop, but a bump to 6 SPD. I'd be much more afraid of the current version. The others are more or less the same as their 4th edition counterparts in terms of raw power. However, I'm much more afraid of The Crowns of Krim. They are the new "team to beat". Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I think 4th ed was tougher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Well, let's consider the two versions: Fiacho: 4E has significantly higher Characteristics overall, better CV, slightly better max damage; 5E is much more versatile in terms of combat options with all his Martial Arts maneuvers and gadgetry. Probably works out about even. Durak: 4E has slightly better Characteristics and Skill Levels, but not a major difference. Mentalla: as mentioned above, the two versions probably balance out overall. Le Sone/Ultrasonique: design wise 4E and 5E are very close, but Le Sone had significantly better Characteristics and more Skill Levels with his weaponry than Ultrasonique. Pantera/Scorpia: Scorpia has many more combat options, but doesn't come close to Pantera's speed and agility, overall toughness and especially damaging potential. Edge to 4E Eurostar here. White Flame/Feurmacher: The latter's powers are a little more versatile, but White Flame is clearly superior in almost every other way. Considering how similar the two character's concepts are, big edge to 4E. Based on just the six most comparable characters, IMO 4E Eurostar clearly comes out ahead of 5E. And that's without throwing in Bora and the Whip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! However, I'm much more afraid of The Crowns of Krim. They are the new "team to beat". Probably so, but mostly because of Dark Seraph. IMO the other Crowns aren't as tough as their point totals would indicate, when you consider their actual damage capacity and defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar 4E was definitely the scariest team I've ever seen assembled in the Champions Universe for their power, speed, and general nastiness. Heck off the top of my head, you had four characters with insane dexes and great speeds (Bora has 30 Dex/7 Speed, Fiacho 33 Dex/6 Speed, Panthera was 35 Dex/7-8 Speed, and Whip was 33 Dex/7 Speed). And that's just HALF the team. The overwhelming power advantage combined numbers (8) made it a group no Champions group I knew wanted to mess with. If you HAD to go against the full team, pop by London to grab the New Knights. Barring that, grab Euroguard to at least have more targets to buy you time. That said, yeah Crowns of Krim are pretty nasty but mostly because of Dark Seraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Probably so' date=' but mostly because of Dark Seraph. IMO the other Crowns aren't as tough as their point totals would indicate, when you consider their actual damage capacity and defenses.[/quote'] See....I have to disagree here. Yes, Dark Seraph is a big part of the team's uber power level, but none of the team is that weak. Bloodstone is probably the weakest member and even he has Damage Reduction and a deadly NND attack that will affect most characters. The rest of the team has high defenses and good damage potential with enough odd powers(Flash, Darkness Usable on Others, Missle Reflection, etc.) to give them a counter against the vast majority of opponents they'd face. As for Eurostar, I never suggested the 5th edition versions were MORE powerful than their 4th Edition counterparts....only that the gap between the two isn't as wide as you may think. The main change is the reduction of characteristics. As far as their abilities, they're just as powerful as before, if not more so. Scorpia to me has more potential as a character to me than Pantera did...and Fuermacher fits the role of "potentially redeemable". Durak is essentially the exact same as the 4th edition version with just the loss of his Life Support. I actually prefer the 5th edition version of Fiacho over the original in terms of the way he was designed. I really never cared much for Ultrasonique in any edition, but he fits the role of scientific genius. I did like the concepts for Bora and The Whip, but I'd prefer the latter as a solo villain. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar is friggin fast? No kidding, I mean, that Scorpia is such a tramp and the ladies say Durak is way too eager on the first date.... what? Sorry, it's late. I'll go now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I still wonder why they took Bora out of the team for 5th Edition. I thought she was a great villain and she's one of my favorite Eurostar members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! As for Eurostar stories, I have two that I can recall right away. In one our NY-based group was in Europe on a totally different adventure. We heard a report that in the neighboring country, Durak was spotted attacking either a military base or training excercise (I don't recall exactly which). I think he just intended this as background news, but since we were headstrong and half of us were fliers, we decided to go help out. When we arrived in the vacinity, Durak had made his way to some highway and we battled him there and either drove him off of knocked him out (it's been too long -plus it wasn't really part of the current plot- to recall exactly). The other memorable one found us in a knock-down drag-out with Eurostar. One thing to keep in mind with this team (same as above) is that we had Nike, a Wonder Woman type clone (around 40-50 STR) sans lasso and tiarra, a Thor (75 STR) and two characters with 60 STR, though one of them -Olga- had shrinking & growing and often (about once every other battle) used a "from small to tall" tactic of being shrunk all the way down, then growing as fast as possible using momentum on her side (she could actually get credited for 90 STR when doing this). The remaining two of us were skilled normals, one with various grenade-type items and myself who was the firearms specialist and had a Judge Dredd type pistol (from the movie) that had a "Big Bertha" option of 4d6 RKA (Energy), among others. Anyway, the six of us had actually managed to knock out four of them; however, Fiacho had managed to grab the Wonder Woman clone and Durak had managed to grab our flying 60 STR guy (a GMPC; can't recall his name) and was going for a called shot haymaker to the head. Also at this time, either Thor or Olga was KO'd, and possibly the other skilled normal was as well. It was my turn and I had to decide who to shoot, Fiacho or Durak. As a player, I wanted to save Nike because that was a player's PC; although my character was closer to the GMPC character Durak had (plus, a haymaker to the head could have had serious drawbacks). I decided my best chance to hit with a called shot would have been against Durak, so I rolled... a 4. Yep, 1, 1, 2. My weapon did like 20+ Body and 60-80+ Stun. It was enough to daze Durak and cause him to lose his grip on the GMPC. My character had yelled something to Durak right before he fired and then yelled "You're next, Fiacho," right after that. Durak getting beat down (by the other bricks) at this point was enough for Fiacho to call a retreat. I had discovered that my roll would have been enough to hit Fiacho in the head as well. I was so disappointed in myself; had I done the called shot on Fiacho, I would have killed him and they would have still retreated. The GM told me "You would have been #1 on their hit list." My response was basically "I would have died happy being the man who killed Fiacho and ultimately broke up Eurostar." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertow Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Pantera holds the record for the fastest champions fight in the history of our gameing group. I was play testing a PC i threw together who was a obvious rip off of Warblade from Jim Lee's Wild C.A.T.S. named Jack Knife. My Sister Gm'd Pantera. My Pc showed up at the park responding to numerous screams. Some one had killed several civilians. Jack Knife and Pantera spoted each other at the same moment I was on the ground she was perched in a tree. Dex 35 segment 12 Pantera finds weakness then leaps from the tree 7 inches to do a move through. Jack Knife Aborts to martial dodge. Pantera hits anyway and with her 4d6 killing does 20 body and 100 stun aganst Jack Knifes 26pd (down to 13 due to the find weakness) and 12 RPD (down to 6 also) I was sure these two PC's were an even match Jack Knife had a 2d6+1 HKA 4d+1 w Str (5d6K Pushed) and with levels could have a 14 OCV. Dex 35 Segment 12 to this day is our fastest character KO. it does not matter how many points you spend if the dice are aganst you. I added unluck to Jack Knife afterward, may as well get the points for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar used to be fast. In 5th they're strictly manageable. They were the main reason my old game suffered from major speed and dex inflation. Players looked at them and said: "I have to be at least that good to compete." Telling them I'd changed the stats didn't help. I'm glad they got cut down to size in the SPD and DEX department, though I would have preferred if their lineup handn't been messed with the way it was. Bora (even with the 5 SPD she had in my game) remains one of the most hated villians of all time (and she's still a member). The Dip, I mean Whip, well, he didn't last long in my game either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! To "Hermit" Bad Hermit ! Anyway "St Barbara" is faster thab either of them (in BOTH senses of the word!) so there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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