Rerednaw Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Given a standard (200+150) superhero campaign, how did your team of heroes outsmart (because it is doubtful your max 15 DC attacks were anything but a minor annoyance) and defeat these (or other similarly powerful) villains? I'm assuming no deus ex machina here. Just wondering. In the campaign I was playing way back (2nd ed), I made the suggestion to our team who possessed high range radio hearing/transmit AND computer prog at an obscene skill level to intercept and decrypt Mechanon's communications and inject a 'pacifism' protocol into all his future incarnations. It was simple and elegant solution, since going head to head with him only resulted in him wiping the floor with us. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 I ran Eurostar against my players along time ago, it was right when Classic Enemies came out, the players were 200pt characters. I felt guilty about having all eight characters so I left Whip nad Mentalla "home". The fight was in Paris and my best friend had a character named Aikido who had a power that didn't seem out of balance at first but in the first combat showed just how unbalancing it was. She had regular defenses 10/10 non resistant, 30 Dex, 6 Spd, 6d6 attack, maybe up to 7 and a martial throw with Damage Shield. The last bit was her reacting to attacks and nullifying them, it seemed to be in accordance to what Aikido was but, man the team put three members of Eurostar down with in three turns as they awaited her to inevitably throw them and they all attacked the prone target with pushed attacks. Then came the oops that Le Sone didn't have reistant defenses... It was rather humiliating for me. But when they were interrogating Fiacho back at their base, Mentalla came to "collect" him and she simply mind controlled Aikido to dust the rest of the team like she had Eurostar. After that we redesigned the characters and I vowed not to "take it easy" on the 200 pt heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Doctor D. Wow, defeating Doctor Destroyer, with me as a player? Bear with me, it was a long time ago (Like almost 10 years). I was playing T.K., my telekentic. The rest of the PCs included a Shaw like Brick (Capable of building up on kinetic energy), a Ice man type and someone else I don't recall. Doctor Destroyer turned his 20d6 EB on TK and fired. I had an action, prayed to God, and rolled the dice on my Missile Reflection. BOOM! Not only did I reflect, the damage was.. well, a really good roll. It did not take Doctor Destroyer out in one shot, but it definitely turned the tide. While he recovered from being rattled we jumped on him for all we were worth. This was, of course, before 5th Edition, when the good doctor started drinking milk. I wish I could say it was brilliant tactics (Though we did okay in that dept), but chiefly it was pure luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 "Nuke them from orbit...its the only way to be sure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 You'll laugh... Character with cybertelepathy, Reprogramed Mech so that his threat analysist computer considered us to be a lot tougher than we were (Good roll on his Mental Illusion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 With 350 point characters? Easy. What's this "15D6 attack" crap? I can get a hell of a lot more damage than a puny 15 dice out of 350 points. Captain Beat-Down would take on Eurostar all by himself, as long as you take Mentalla out of the equation. Same thing with Mechanon. Dr D is a little tougher, but I'm sure I could build someone who'd have no problem taking him out. If all else fails, I'd just have to bring out good old "100D6 Killing Attack Man." Guess what his power was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Sat by the side of the river long enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 My characters have only ever fought the first/second edition versions. The early versions of the really nasty villains weren't all that tough. Eurostar was the biggest exception, since they were a group, and were fast. Of course, player characters designed under the early editions could either be very weak or unbalancingly powerful. The latter could simply smack down NPCs that weren't designed at a comparable power level. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayday Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 We defeated Dr Destroyer by having my mentalist/gadgeteer sneak in while the other heroes distracted him, and hotwire the mega computer controlling the warheads. Dr D didnt think he could take that kind of damage coming down on his head and fled. She defeated Eurostar in much the same way. Many many danger room sessions against Eurostar, Pantera ripped her entrails out as her first action, before Mayday got to move so when the real fight came she locked herself in the jet cockpit and while the rest of the team ran around with the usual one on one, sniped from the cockpit. She now has Le Son on a Disad, to kill her on sight and Mentalla isnt very happy either. (Mayday's ego blast is 7d6 armor piercing, it hurts no matter who you are) Durok and Pantera were captured and tied up, the rest took off. We followed them to where Mentalla and Le Son and the rest were holed up, inside an underground military base theyd taken over. Mistress Death had an Ego Blast AE, and so she would zap the area and whoever was still standing Mayday would drop on the same phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Celt Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 I filled in for our group's regular GM for a bit and did a run which led up to a Mechanon battle. My own PC's secret ID (the bankroll for the group) was kidnapped by Mechanon in an effort by the Metal Menace to use his computing skills to create a slavish AI program to install in followers for Mechanon. The players tracked down Mechanon's lair to a secluded manse outside Las Vegas. They entered by going non-combat through a wall, the team leader making a combat piloting roll to stop in time instead of blowing all the way through the house. I gave them segment 12 as a surprise round for them. One of the characters even had gravitic powers, which Mechanon is vulnerable to. They promptly whaled on the Tin Terror. Mechanon did not make it to post-12 recovery. I will not repeat that error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rerednaw Posted May 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Standard guidelines Originally posted by Champsguy With 350 point characters? Easy. What's this "15D6 attack" crap? I can get a hell of a lot more damage than a puny 15 dice out of 350 points. Captain Beat-Down would take on Eurostar all by himself, as long as you take Mentalla out of the equation. Same thing with Mechanon. Dr D is a little tougher, but I'm sure I could build someone who'd have no problem taking him out. If all else fails, I'd just have to bring out good old "100D6 Killing Attack Man." Guess what his power was. 15 DC is the standard damage dice (actually a bit over) for a 'standard' 350 point campaign. Most of the Champions universe is geared for campaigns involved characters made on those guidelines on page 15 of the BBB^2 (FRED) Superheroic: CV 7-13, DC (6-14), Active 80 points, etc... My question refers to how you beat them using tactics, stategy or sheer dumb luck as opposed to the 'out-dice' method. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Legacy-1, Mechanon -0 More recently, with myself as GM and the players running a group of Characters known as "Legacy", Legacy was so named because the original "Crusaders" had been slain, and the Legacy had some ties (Though they weren't too public about it). They managed to get wind of Mechanon's plot to release a gas that would devour organic matter across the city. Mechanon refused to believe the original Crusaders were dead, because the AI's arrogance figured that if the Crusaders had bested 'it', then a lesser villain could not have succeeded. The heroes lead Mechanon to a junkyard...and the fight began. It was a mix of good strategy, and critical hits for max damage. ...TWICE! (To this day, I swear Strobe's player's dice are evil! Not fixed, not loaded, just evil.) To further complicate things, Wytch (the Team Mentalist) managed to Mental Illusion Mechanon into thinking he was facing the original Crusaders. This threw some of Mechanon's tactics off, naturally. They also used the giant magnet on the site to mux with Mechanon further. In fact, when Mechanon 'died' at their hands (to be reborn again, natch) his data for the next body was totally hazy and false. There was more to their tactics, but the details beyond this elude me. It was a luck/sneak combo that worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 It was a long time ago. I had a prankster mage with a faerie dragon familiar. We arranged it so that Mechanon and various other villains were in an area. We anonymously sent word to their hunteds, their hunted's hunteds, etc. and had a massive all out battle. After the dust settled, at least a half dozen Mechanons were destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 Originally posted by jtelson Sat by the side of the river long enough... *quiet laughter* I wonder how many people get this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 During my group's last climactic confrontation with Dr. Destroyer, his agents, and two of his main 4th Edition minions Gigaton and Stormwatch, one of our players hit upon an inspired psychological strategem. You have to remember that the 4E Dr. D. had been hideously scarred by fire and had the Psychological Limitation, "Cannot stand the sight of his own face." That being the case, I never could understand why his helmet was open-faced... This player was running a mistress of illusion called Facade. With Destroyer surrounded by his followers and boasting of the magnificence of his latest scheme, Facade used her Images Power to apparently surround the Doctor with mirrors reflecting his face back at him! Everywhere he looked he saw his own hideous features. The GM had him roll against Ego which he obviously failed; Destroyer went ballistic and started blasting the "mirrors", most of which were in front of his own troops. Our team ducked for cover as Destroyer's attack scattered his followers' formation and took out several of the agents (Gigaton tried to calm him down but took a nasty EB to the face, after which he started firing back.) We let our opponents weaken and demoralize each other for a Turn or so before launching our own attack. Destroyer refocussed quickly then and Gigaton tried to rally the troops, but by then the tide of battle had turned in our favor. I noticed that the new Dr. Destroyer has gone for a full-coverage helmet - got a chuckle out of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden During my group's last climactic confrontation with Dr. Destroyer, his agents, and two of his main 4th Edition minions Gigaton and Stormwatch, one of our players hit upon an inspired psychological strategem. Very nice work. I'm deeply impressed. Personally, I've never played in a game that used Dr. Destroyer. I only got to look at Island of Dr. D and Day of the D earlier this year, and I never bought Classic Enemies. I can't see any obvious reason why I would use the CKC version. Holocaust or Fiacho (or Professor Muerte!) would be adequate if I wanted someone to fill the mastermind space. Dr. D simply didn't exist in most of the game universes I have played in. Most of them didn't really have any particular ubervillain at all. In fact, I can only recall one that did - it had an irritating know-it-all call "Horrorscope", who was, of course a precog. Unfortunately, this character was a good example of why you should be careful not to annoy your players more than their characters... Actually, just thinking about it, we should probably have done something to blind his precognition. That would have _really_ ticked him off. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 The genre fiend in me can't help but note that the 'House of Mirrors' approach sounds like FF #200, which left Dr. Doom temporarily insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 I made the same observation at the time, Tom. Facade's player swore she never read that issue. Ol' Doc D. didn't actually lose his mind in that game, though - he was just really, really p.o.'d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rerednaw Posted May 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 looking for more input... *shameless bump* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well funny you should ask. I had a Hero named Dragon. He was a Martial arts that could summon up his Chi, much like Iron Fist. It was a 20d6 Eb with no range, stun only and Extra KB. I rarely used it full blast, but alot of the people I was playing with had every brick with a 50+pd so I needed a good punch. Anyway, after the group I was with weren't managing much I figured it was save to unload on the good doctor. So I did, after almost a totally maxed out roll plus and incredibly lucky KB roll the good doctor went through a good chuck of the mountain we were fighting in. Problem was Dragon had a code vs killing. Well when the mountain fell it was assumed that the Doc didn't make it out. Dragon be came a NPC after that. He's a bit psycho now and a villain to boot. Seems the fact that he killed someone (or so we thought) snaped his mind. Now Death Dragon is wanted in several countries and by most "good guy" organizations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTemplar Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well, hey Tiger! You're just down the highway from Mole and Me! Hope you and yours made it safely through last week's weather. That tornado that hit Lawrence last week was about 20 minutes or so away from my house when it broke up and that whole front got sucked into that supercell that passed through La Cygne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 Originally posted by TheTemplar Well, hey Tiger! You're just down the highway from Mole and Me! Hope you and yours made it safely through last week's weather. That tornado that hit Lawrence last week was about 20 minutes or so away from my house when it broke up and that whole front got sucked into that supercell that passed through La Cygne. Glad to hear it broke up before it made it to you place. Bypasted me altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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