Mightybec Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! The cover has certainly made me consider buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Well, the cover is not an action piece, but it works. I'll give it 3 stars. As for Prediters, it gets a zero star (it is ugly, unatractive, there is no action in it whatsoever, and while the ideal of the chalk outline gives the book a CSI or Law And Order feal, quite frankly I am not impresed. Besides, CSI has more action going on with the 'show it, do not explain it' way thay do things than this cover). As for the Combat Handbook, I give it two stars. (It is unatractive, but the red fist does tell you what it is about, and sergests action more than a caulk outline). The way things are going, HERO could do a rather bad 'woman tied to the railroad tracks' cover if thay keep this up. Even with a brick superhero pushing back the train (eather real or subway train, whatever works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Given the resources DOJ has available, and given that this is not a major product, it's a good cover. It (and Predators CH, and EG) shows that they're learning to get creative with graphic alternatives to commissioning a big piece of art for every book cover. If DOJ can't afford to buy lots of art, then, by all means, get creative with other layout and graphic elements to liven up the look of a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! It's minimalist, but good art, and I like mimimalism if it's done right. Where's the Predators cover? I don't recall Steve putting up a link to it. JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! It's minimalist, but good art, and I like mimimalism if it's done right. Where's the Predators cover? I don't recall Steve putting up a link to it. JG The Predators cover was put up 2-3 weeks ago. You can see it in the Our Products section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Given the resources DOJ has available' date=' and given that this is not a major product, it's a good cover. [/quote'] Considering that this is only the 3rd CU product published so far this year [and it's now the middle of August] I would not go so far as to say it's not a "major product." For the gamers who want, and have been waiting for, CU information this is a major product. Teen Champions certainly won't be a major product if it ends up looking like DC:TAS. You need to treat every book you publish as a major product. I already have the playtest version of this book. The only reason I have for buying the printed version is to see the artwork and presentation of the characters. If that is poorly done then there's no reason for me to buy the book at all. Teen Champions has an "OK" cover. It's far better than Predators but it's still several steps behind what we have come to expect from Champions' covers over the last 24 years. It's the type of cover I'd expect to see on an Superlink pdf thrown together for $5; not the type of cover I'd expect to see on a FLGS shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mightybec Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! "Mom, I'm really disappointed with my birth. I mean, really... 23 hours of labor? I'm sure you could have done it in 10. After all, I have a very busy life ahead of me, and those wasted ours in your birth canal could have been put to good use. And what's with this epidural crap? Those people in third world countries give birth on thier feet and harvest crops within minutes. Don't be such a wimp. Now, about your choice in mates..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Considering that this is only the 3rd CU product published so far this year [and it's now the middle of August] I would not go so far as to say it's not a "major product." I would. Pulp HERO is a major product. Teen Champions is a niche wihtin a niche. I can see them saving the big bucks for other products. I'd be nice if they didn't have to, but that's life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Gillen Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! The Predators cover was put up 2-3 weeks ago. You can see it in the Our Products section. OK, I see it. Not sure what my verdict is. Plain body outline with police tape going through the back cover is "minimalist in a good way", but it could still use a little more style. With Teen Champions, at least Cantrip's costume is garish enough to attract attention. But as I've said more than once, this company always has been minimalist- to the point that they ought to have sold 5er under a plain white cover with blue letters saying "rule book." JG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I would. Pulp HERO is a major product. Teen Champions is a niche wihtin a niche. I can see them saving the big bucks for other products. I'd be nice if they didn't have to' date=' but that's life.[/quote'] On any given day over the next year there will be at least 50 [probably closer to 100] Champions campaigns played for every single Pulp Hero campaign played. I would even bet there will be more Teen Champions campaigns played then Pulp Hero. Usability by the fans is what makes something a major product in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzz Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! On any given day over the next year there will be at least 50 [probably closer to 100] Champions campaigns played for every single Pulp Hero campaign played. I would even bet there will be more Teen Champions campaigns played then Pulp Hero. Usability by the fans is what makes something a major product in my eyes. I understand what you mean, but as products go, I'm just saying that we're not talking about a major genre release, here. E.g., Champions. Star HERO, Fantasy HERO, etc. We're not even talking about a notable Champions universe setting book (DEMON, CKC, etc.); TC is a specialty subgenre book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Her name is Cantrip. I assume that is her character portrait that is being used on the cover. To me she'll always be Seuss-girl. Oh, and where's her three-fingers-and-a-thumb gloves, and her heart-shaped glasses? Hmph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teh bunneh Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Best Covers (in no particular order): Champions Battlegrounds: Great comic book cover. Perfect for the source, and puts you right into the genre. DEMON: It looks like you're coming in right in the climax of a great advenure. The look on Defender's face is perfect. Nice action scene. Star Hero: Minimalist but very, very evocative. The grandeur of space in all its glory. Reminds me of the final shot in The Empire Strikes Back. Grimoire 2: A sexy evil sorceress and undead. What more could you want? Dark Champions: Another action (or more properly, just after the action) picture. Harbinger looks menacing and scary as heck. Ninja Hero: Another great action cover. The heroes fight to the death against hoards of ninja assassins! Fantasy Hero: Quite possibly my favorite of all. It's perfect for a high fantasy (almost super-heroic fantasy), and it captures most of the elements perfectly. Worst Covers (in no particular order): UNTIL Super Powers Database: Boring, static, flat. Nothing's going on. Plus, Grond is tiny. Valdorian Age: I like the elements of the cover (evil castle, barbarian warrior, kidnapped princess), but the porportions on the barbarian and the horse are all off, which wrecks it for me. Predators: Blah. I like minimalist work, but blah. The Turakian Age: The picture tries really hard to evoke a fantasy feeling, but it just doesn't work. I think it's a cover that you have to stare at and think about for too long for it to make sense. The figures are too small and don't have enough personality -- they should be front-and-center, larger than life. Teen Champions is good, not great. Nice bright colors, I like the word bubble used as the title, fits the genre, but there's no action and no sense of place. It falls squarely in the middle of the pack. 'course, I never buy anything on the basis of its cover art. But sometimes when I pull out the books, I like to stare at the covers. If they're good, they bring a smile to my face. If not so good, I just frown and shake my head. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Have to agree with the majority. For an ad it would look wonderful' date=' as a cover it just looks like it was tossed together. [/quote'] I'm not sure that's the majority you're agreeing with. Personally, I like the cover, which is nothing but a nice bonus for me. I don't buy books for the covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Considering that this is only the 3rd CU product published so far this year [and it's now the middle of August] I would not go so far as to say it's not a "major product." For the gamers who want, and have been waiting for, CU information this is a major product. Teen Champions certainly won't be a major product if it ends up looking like DC:TAS. You need to treat every book you publish as a major product. I already have the playtest version of this book. The only reason I have for buying the printed version is to see the artwork and presentation of the characters. If that is poorly done then there's no reason for me to buy the book at all. Teen Champions has an "OK" cover. It's far better than Predators but it's still several steps behind what we have come to expect from Champions' covers over the last 24 years. It's the type of cover I'd expect to see on an Superlink pdf thrown together for $5; not the type of cover I'd expect to see on a FLGS shelf. I've seen some of the old 1st and 2nd edition covers...this is miles ahead of what I've seen out of that time period. I also find it odd that you judge these books from your rather unique position as a playtester. If DoJ needs to worry about whether someone will buy the physical book after getting the playtesting copy (PDF, I'm guessing), then either they have a very limited market even as gaming products go, or they're giving out way too many playtesting copies. Your position here does have to be put in the context of how much you seem to go after DoJ on the tiniest of issues. Of course, mine has to be put in the context of two things: first, as I said, a nice cover is nothing more than a bonus when it comes to my book-boying decisions, and second, I've been waiting to buy this book since it was first announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I've seen some of the old 1st and 2nd edition covers...this is miles ahead of what I've seen out of that time period. I disagree. In my opinion, Champions 1st Ed was better, even though it didn't havea background, same with Enemies II not having a background, though I didn't like the drawing of Grond on it. It seems this may only seem 'miles ahead' because the printing material and technology is better than it was back then. I also find it odd that you judge these books from your rather unique position as a playtester. Maybe I'm misunderstaning you, but why do you find it odd that his opinion comes from his position? Mine comes from my position, yours from your position. Or is it the 'playtester' only aspect? DoJ does want MitchelS to purchase it, just like they want me to. We both seem to be tired of the lack of quality artwork (some of them are just horrible). Poor artwork can burn people out just as other things. And it's not like the art is free to us. You can't buy the same book without the art; it's part of the package and takes up space. I would like that space to be used well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I haven't been in a game store in a while, but the last few times I was in all of the companies were trying to make ever more garish and loud covers. Going the opposite direction, with minimalism, will make DOJ stand out... and the TC cover still exemplifies the contents. My tuppence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! My tuppence. Tuppence? Tuppence! How dare you?! ---goes to check dictionary--- Oh. Carry on. I learn something new everyday. And I also learned what tupenny means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Tuppence? Tuppence! How dare you?! ---goes to check dictionary--- Oh. Carry on. I learn something new everyday. And I also learned what tupenny means. Feed the Birds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! Aaaargh! Look what you've done! I've got Dick Van Dyke tapdancing through my head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I've seen some of the old 1st and 2nd edition covers...this is miles ahead of what I've seen out of that time period. The Teen Champions reminds me of the cover of Island of Dr. Destroyer [single figure on plan background]. As I said, it's not terrible. It's just average. If you want to be inspired by DOJ taking a 24 year step backwards to emulate those old 1E covers then good for you. I also find it odd that you judge these books from your rather unique position as a playtester. If DoJ needs to worry about whether someone will buy the physical book after getting the playtesting copy (PDF, I'm guessing), then either they have a very limited market even as gaming products go, or they're giving out way too many playtesting copies. Anyone can be a playtester. Plop down your $30.00 and you can be one too. I have spent months saying this style of playtest is bad for sales. Now it's just getting to the point where it's coming true for me as well. I have no reason to buy a book I believe is ugly and uninteresting; especially when I already own all the data in it. Your position here does have to be put in the context of how much you seem to go after DoJ on the tiniest of issues. My position is one of a fan who is becoming rapidly disenchanted with the product I am being offered to purchase. DOJ is making bold strikes toward pushing me out of the system [two of our players already have left for M&M]. If DOJ wants my business then they need to earn it; not by answer the same question on the message boards 10 times a month but by giving me product that doesn't look like it was put together by a bunch of teenagers from Ravenswood. I don't buy comics where the art looks like crap and I don't want to buy supplements based on comic books where it looks that way too. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! I disagree. In my opinion' date=' [i']Champions[/i] 1st Ed was better, even though it didn't havea background, same with Enemies II not having a background, though I didn't like the drawing of Grond on it. It seems this may only seem 'miles ahead' because the printing material and technology is better than it was back then. Does anyone have the old covers online where I can get another look at them? Of course, IMO, the BBB 4th Ed cover was middling at best. Maybe I'm misunderstaning you, but why do you find it odd that his opinion comes from his position? Mine comes from my position, yours from your position. Or is it the 'playtester' only aspect? DoJ does want MitchelS to purchase it, just like they want me to. We both seem to be tired of the lack of quality artwork (some of them are just horrible). Poor artwork can burn people out just as other things. And it's not like the art is free to us. You can't buy the same book without the art; it's part of the package and takes up space. I would like that space to be used well. MitchellS's view seems to be that because, as a playtester, he gets a digital copy of the book, the cover should be "good enough" to convince him to buy a physical copy of the book. And that because of this, DoJ should put massive effort into making the cover of every book as amazing as possible. Never mind that very few of us get a playtester's copy of the book, or that (IMO) most of us aren't buying RPG books for the pretty pictures, on the cover or otherwise. As a counter to the pretty pictures crowd, I don't give a rat's butt what the artwork is like as long as the material is good. I can come up with plenty of criticisms of various RPG books that have nothing to do with the art quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! The Teen Champions reminds me of the cover of Island of Dr. Destroyer [single figure on plan background]. As I said' date=' it's not terrible. It's just average. If you want to be inspired by DOJ taking a 24 year step backwards to emulate those old 1E covers then good for you. [/quote'] From what I've seen of those 1E covers, this is miles ahead, and not just because of the printing technology available. And really, "inspired"? Come on. Are you really looking for DoJ to inspire you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomGM2602 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! What can I say except HUH!?? Are they joking or is it just the first draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Re: Teen Champion Cover! To me she'll always be Seuss-girl. Oh, and where's her three-fingers-and-a-thumb gloves, and her heart-shaped glasses? Hmph. That version is non-CU. Her name is Mittens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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