How to handle RKA?

[Manchine]

I have a guy who only plays characters with RKA. Luckily I limited him to only having a 3d6. Needless to say he got really lucky against a my Arch Villain. Almost took him out with one hit. How do I prevent this from happening? I don't want to have him remake a character but I want to make him tough enough to handle him if he gets lucky again. I just don't want to make him useless.

 

Pretty much what I am asking is how do you deal with RKA?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Try

 

50% Damage Reduction, only vs STUn from a killing attack rolling a 4 Stun Multiple

 

plus

 

75% Damage Reduction, only vs STUn from a killing attack rolling a 5+ Stun Multiple

 

Sure, it's mechanical, but it's a mechanical problem.

 

Another approach would be any of the many reeplacements suggested for the Stun Multiple on various other threads, such as "Standard effect - Stun Multiple is always 3".

[Manchine]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Try

 

50% Damage Reduction, only vs STUn from a killing attack rolling a 4 Stun Multiple

 

plus

 

75% Damage Reduction, only vs STUn from a killing attack rolling a 5+ Stun Multiple

 

Sure, it's mechanical, but it's a mechanical problem.

 

 

How much would those 2 be? In points?

[Korvar]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

If you're in a "standard" superhero game, don't forget that other superheroes, and the public in general, will have an opinion of someone who uses a lethal weapon.

 

Villains, also, will have an opinion of someone who has the potential to kill them. Getting bruised and put in jail is one thing, having your head removed is another.

 

Just be careful to keep the issues logical within the game - so it's not the GM punishing the player, it's the logical consequences of what happens in game.

 

Or just, you know, talk to the guy

[Jeghis]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

An RKA is just a gun, so deal with it the same way. How do gangs, organized crime syndicates and para-military forces deal with it? Buy body armor and just prepare for it.

 

You said he almost killed your Arch Villain, which is fine. Your Arch Villain should begin to prepare for him in an appropriate way.

 

If he's savvy, frame him for murder, or arrange one. He likes to pull his trigger; let him shoot an old lady in the back, just because he's tricked into thinking he's shooting a tank.

 

If your villain is more blood and thunder, then have him get help next time, either in terms of a team or better defenses or both.

 

If you've got a villain that's a loner, then it's probably time to start stalking your RKA or hire someone who can.

 

If you want to contain the RKA, then for villains who are aware of what they're fighting, there should be some sort of defense available, and 3d6 isn't that bad. It's a good rifle.

 

When you think defense, don't just think of Armor. If you can't see your enemy, or can't get better than 8- to hit, that works just as well. Being levitated into the ceiling also works well. And Mind Control is a terror when you see evil demon spiders everywhere.

 

Now, if you're worried about a PC or NPC dying, it's probably too late. RKA's are good for killing, hence the K part of the name. How you handle the K part will help to define the flavor of your game.

 

Good luck.

[assault]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

How much would those 2 be? In points?

 

Points are irrelevant to NPCs.

 

I recommend going with Standard Effect and abolishing the Stun lottery. Its results are highly inappropriate to the superheroic genre.

 

It's OK in heroic games, though.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

How do I handle a player who only wants to play characters that give me a headache? I tell them to go play in someone else's campaign. YOU ARE THE GM -- IT IS YOUR GAME AND YOUR RULES. If you have a player who can't make a character suitable for your campaign guidelines, give 'em the hook. Give the person an explanation, sure. Tell him or her that if he or she wishes to revamp his or her character to fit in with the rest of the group, you'll be happy to help him or her. If he or she wishes to play a different character (within reason), you'll work with him or her. But if he or she is digging in his or her heels, tell the person that when he or she is running a campaign, he or she can make the rules, but you are the GM and therefore if he or she really didn't want to play, he or she shouldn't have wasted everyone's time trying to ramrod in an unworkable character. Period.

 

Yeah, that tactic has cost me some players but it has also saved me a lot of headaches. Personally, I think I'm ahead in the game.

 

Matt "Not-afraid-to-put-his-foot-down" Frisbee

[Hermit]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

I find missile reflection that works only on bullets to be highly entertaining...

but I suppose that is wrong.

 

[MisterBaldy]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

It's a simple solution to get your PC to rethink his love of "High Power" RKAs...Just create a villian with the following abilities...

87 Cosmic Energy Shield: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target, Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4) (87 Active Points)

30 Cosmic Power Dampener: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50%

30 Cosmic Power Dampener: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50%

 

When his RKAs start redirecting back at his buddies (especially those without Resistant Defenses, and do so without knowing where they will originate from because of the Indirect Power Advantage)...or perhaps himself, see if that changes his tune.

 

"With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility." Teach him that lesson the hard way.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

It's a simple solution to get your PC to rethink his love of "High Power" RKAs...

I wouldn't really consider a 3d6 RKA "high power." It's only 9 DCs, after all. The problem comes from the Stun Multiple; which is why I've always detested the "Stun Lotto" in superhero games. They just aren't genre. To do 90 Stun with 3d6 RKA takes only 4 6's rolled; whereas a maxed out normal attack of equivalent Damage Classes would have to roll 9 6's (and would still do only 54 Stun - 60% of the Stun of the "equivalent" Killing attack).

 

I'd control this with a combination of capping Stun Multiples (perhaps by using Standard Effect or maybe with each reduction in the Multiple being worth an additional -¼ so the character saves some points); and reaction to the Killing Attack by fellow teammates and the authorities (and of course, supervillains might well decide to focus on the PC who can "one shot" them).

[Manchine]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Some of the things I was already planning. The guy uses Flame powers. I plan on having him fight in heavly poulated areas. Have him if he uses his powers bad things can happen.

[RDU Neil]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

As other have said... as has been said in many threads before this... and will be said in many threads after this...

 

Stun Multiplier... the Stun Lotto... is one of the more broken mechanics in Hero. It has it's place... but very often that place is NOT in a supers campaign.

 

My suggestion... go with a flat x3 multiple. Speeds up the game with only one roll, easy to figure... allows people to adjust defenses accordingly... and for most supers games, it is more "genre."

 

Many a gamer has come to find that despite all the weird things you can do with Hero... the bizarre and complex and munchkinist power builds... the single most abusive power is a KA... because of the Stun Multiple. (The HKA is even worse, cause you can add STR to increase the attack.)

[BNakagawa]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Take him out with a bunch of punks armed with hunting rifles.

 

Live by the stun lotto, die by the stun lotto.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Take him out with a bunch of punks armed with hunting rifles.

 

Live by the stun lotto, die by the stun lotto.

Mercy is not one of your strongest traits, is it?

[Korvar]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

If he's using flamethrowers specifically, there's lots of things you can do. Fire's a fairly common special effect, so someone who has Absorption versus fire KA is entirely reasonable...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

While I'm not the biggest fan of KA's, the "public reaction to his lethal force" response grates on my nerves. Get over the mechanics and let's look at effects. If a character has a 3d6 RKA FlameBolt and a 15d6 EB FireBlast, do you really think John Q Public perceives him as "more restrained" if he only throws the EB around?

 

Typical hit on Joe Normal with KA? he takes 11 BOD. Typical hit with EB? he takes 13 BOD. He's hospitalized either way.

 

The SFX comes in - "Gun" screams "KA", but then VIPER and UNTIL blasters are EB's, and guns, aren't they?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

How I hate the question "how much would it cost". Its cost would depend on how common you consider KA's, and how useful you consider the ability to be after it's been downgraded.

 

50% Damage Reduction, Physical (30 points) STUN only (-1/2), KA's only (-2 *), STUN mult of 4+ only (-1 **) 7 points, so 14 for Physical and Energy.

 

* Depends how common KA's are. I get the sense they're pretty rare in your game. Let's assume you have 5 PC's, one of whom has a KA. This defense only works against 20% of PC's, and then only if that one guy chooses his KA over some other atack, so a -2 limitation seems fair.

 

** This is 1/3 of KA's (absent an increased multiple), but the more useful hits, so call it -1.

 

Add in 75% Damage Reduction, Physical (60 - 30 points ***) STUN only (-1/2), KA's only (-2 *), STUN mult of 5+ only (-2 **) 5 points, so 10 for Physical and Energy.

 

* Still depends how common KA's are, so same as above.

 

** This is 1/6 of KA's (absent an increased multiple), albeit the most useful hits, so call it -2.

 

*** He already paid for 50% reduction to such attacks.

 

That's 24 points in aggregate using my limitation figures. Guaranteed, there will be tons of other opinions on what the limitations should be, and they'll also vary game to game, especially depending on how common KA's are. If the game imposes a standard 3x Multiple, suddenly this ability is free.

 

Note that I can buy +15 PD and +15 ED only vs 4x and higher, and a further +15/+15 only vs 5x and greater, get the same price and limitation, and probably take even less STUN from that 3d6 KA.

[GoldenAge]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

My suggestion... go with a flat x3 multiple. Speeds up the game with only one roll' date=' easy to figure... allows people to adjust defenses accordingly... and for most supers games, it is more "genre."[/quote']

 

This is what we do. It really helps the game run smoothly and keeps the attention on the KILLING part of RKAs. Isn't that what they’re for? Killing I mean.

 

A character that buys an RKA in hopes of knocking someone out with a lucky Stun Multiplier should rethink his character.

[sinanju]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

How do I handle a player who only wants to play characters that give me a headache? I tell them to go play in someone else's campaign. YOU ARE THE GM -- IT IS YOUR GAME AND YOUR RULES. If you have a player who can't make a character suitable for your campaign guidelines, give 'em the hook. Give the person an explanation, sure. Tell him or her that if he or she wishes to revamp his or her character to fit in with the rest of the group, you'll be happy to help him or her. If he or she wishes to play a different character (within reason), you'll work with him or her. But if he or she is digging in his or her heels, tell the person that when he or she is running a campaign, he or she can make the rules, but you are the GM and therefore if he or she really didn't want to play, he or she shouldn't have wasted everyone's time trying to ramrod in an unworkable character. Period.

 

Yeah, that tactic has cost me some players but it has also saved me a lot of headaches. Personally, I think I'm ahead in the game.

 

Matt "Not-afraid-to-put-his-foot-down" Frisbee

 

This was so completely correct it needed to be repeated!

 

It's your game. If you don't want RKA-only characters in it, it is YOUR job to forbid them. Players can only play the characters you allow.

[Sketchpad]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Other suggestions are:

- Throw a high-level entangle against him. Make him fight his way out of it using the KA

- Have an adventure where he loses his powers. What happens when he doesn't have access to the KA that he uses so much? Just remember ... taking them away should be a plot device and not a vindictive means of torturing the player. Perhaps he'll find some other ability that he likes.

- Use other methods of challenging him. Sure he may have a KA, but what happens when a loved one is imperiled? Does he attack the villain or save his fluffy puppy?

 

There are always alternatives ... just look to things like comics and novels for inspiration

[Nucleon]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Pretty much what I am asking is how do you deal with RKA?

 

Nucleon had this kind of player; A Punisher-like character, he was stunning everyone with +2 Stun mult, Autofire RKAs. Yet he wasn't killing anyone for it.

 

The rule as it it fits well for heroic genres. In superheroic, nodoby gets killed anymore but bystanders and varlets.

 

So Nucleon made a house rule, between campaigns. Here it is, as an exemple of what can be done.

 

No more KAs as Powers. Nowadays, Killing is a +¼ Advantage. What it does is double the amount of BODY done for determining damage (Knockback however is half of the Body dice rolled -no more additional d6 of Kb reduction for killing. A furthermore Penetrating Advantage operates on the same calculation BTW).

 

Stuns stays the same. It is some rework to do, but getting rid of the Stun Lotto is well worth it IHO.

 

If thou seek to go along the existing rules - and do not want to impose rules change in the middle of a campaign-, Nucleon would stress any one of the Damage Reduction tricks proposed here and there in the hopes that it will makes your game plannings a simpler thing.

 

[MisterBaldy]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Stuns stays the same. It is some rework to do' date=' but getting rid of the Stun Lotto is well worth it IHO.[/quote']

But all the cool kids are doing the Stun Lotto, and I wouldn't want to be left out.

[philnicau]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

I have a guy who only plays characters with RKA. Luckily I limited him to only having a 3d6. Needless to say he got really lucky against a my Arch Villain. Almost took him out with one hit. How do I prevent this from happening? I don't want to have him remake a character but I want to make him tough enough to handle him if he gets lucky again. I just don't want to make him useless.

 

Pretty much what I am asking is how do you deal with RKA?

 

I can't understand members who complain that there players are too powerful, too deadly etc, when you start a campaign you should sit down with the players and establish some basic guidelines ie: no killing attacks above 6DCs etc, if the players then produce characters which are clearly in breach of these guidelines then you veto the character.

if they don't like it, then play something else.

[Manchine]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

I can't understand members who complain that there players are too powerful, too deadly etc, when you start a campaign you should sit down with the players and establish some basic guidelines ie: no killing attacks above 6DCs etc, if the players then produce characters which are clearly in breach of these guidelines then you veto the character.

if they don't like it, then play something else.

 

 

Part of it is I have just started playing the game. My group likes the game mechanics and I didn't realise how powerful RKA were that powerful. I pretty much have been only playing this game for 2 months.

[RDU Neil]

Re: How to handle RKA?

 

Part of it is I have just started playing the game. My group likes the game mechanics and I didn't realise how powerful RKA were that powerful. I pretty much have been only playing this game for 2 months.

 

And don't feel bad about being a newbie. Hero is a massive system with all kinds of nuances. After 24 years playing it, I still find new ways to look at it... new ways to interpret.

 

Unlike Nucleon... I have no problem with you changing rules mid-campaign. Why go forward if things aren't working. Switching to a flat x3 stun multiple doesn't just mess with one character... it sets a new bar for all characters. No harm, no foul. Obviously, if the player want to change their character with the new rule, fine... work with him on it. No need to remain stagnant just for the sake of it.

 

Simply talk about the change, the reason for the change (Killing Attacks are unbalancing compared to Normal attacks of the same value, because of the Stun Lotto) and go for it.

 

Good luck, and keep up with the good questions.