MitchellS Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? So people how strong do you think "Captain Marvel" (Billy Batson' date=' the Big Red Cheese) is on this scale ? Close to Supes ?[/quote'] We already had the big debate on that one. We gave him the same STR but a little less defense and movement [flight/running]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? So people how strong do you think "Captain Marvel" (Billy Batson' date=' the Big Red Cheese) is on this scale ? Close to Supes ?[/quote'] Usually they're shown as being exactly the same. In my home game, I'd give Billy a 5 point STR advantage, but give Superman some basic Martial Maneuvers and combat skill levels. Superman is both textually more experienced and the longer running character (if not by much), and at least pre-Crisis he was in more situations where he faced foes on his own level or above (though the Captain did have Black Adam). Captain Marvel was actually performing more impressive STR feats than Supes back in the early 40s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? My personal list: 1) Validus (numerous descriptions allude to this) 2) Superman (DC editorial staff have stated on numerous occasions that he is the strongest hero, despite individual writers) 3) Supergirl, Mon-El (he's a teenager in most versions), Mongul, Captain Marvel 4) J'onn J'onzz, Power Girl (She's related to the slightly weaker E-2 Superman), Other Marvel family members, Solomon Grundy (though I have no idea why) 5) Wonder Woman, Orion, Maxima 6) Big Barda, Knockout, Superboy (current), Mammoth Why is Wonder Woman so low? It's where she seems to be unless a writer is driectly comparing her to Superman. Then she's always an "equal or near-equal". I just don't see the evidence in her own comic, per- or post-crisis. Keith "If pressed, I might allow that Captain Marvel should be on Supes' level" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Well I recall at one point in the Silver Age [i know it was the Silver Age because Captain Marvel was still on Earth S], Black Adam was accidentally teleported to Earth 1 and fought the Silver Age Superman. Not only was the fight equal but Black Adam was manhandling Supes, to the point where Supes had to recreate the accident that caused Black Adam to be teleported from Earth S [with the help of a non-powered Billy Batson from Earth 1, who was a fan of Captain Marvel's comicbook] in order to bring over Captain Marvel to help him stop Black Adam. That would seem to suggest some parity between Supes and the Marvels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Just researching and found a really cool link: DC Database Keith "Passing on cool stuff" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Just researching and found a really cool link: DC Database Keith "Passing on cool stuff" Curtis Groovy site! However: Amazo has the combined power of all the members of the Justice League. "The strength of Superman, the speed of the Flash, the intelligence of Aquaman, the accuracy of Green Arrow, and Green Lantern's ring." The intelligence of Aquaman? That explains so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? planet-pushing Superman of the 70s cartoons might get 400 STR, but what about INT? He was a bit stupid. I will be generous and say 1 INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? INT of 1 eh? Oh crap! ((puts on flame retardant clothing)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Actually, the Superman of the Silver Age had an Int of 50. He had all the Kryptonian tech, knew every language ever spoken anywhere, memorized all written material everywhere, etc. Problem was, it had an activation roll of 8- Keith "Kal! Remember your ___insert power name here___!" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Actually, the Superman of the Silver Age had an Int of 50. He had all the Kryptonian tech, knew every language ever spoken anywhere, memorized all written material everywhere, etc. Problem was, it had an activation roll of 8- Keith "Kal! Remember your ___insert power name here___!" Curtis Best explanation I've heard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted December 17, 2005 Report Share Posted December 17, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? My personal list: 1) Validus (numerous descriptions allude to this) 2) Superman (DC editorial staff have stated on numerous occasions that he is the strongest hero, despite individual writers) 3) Supergirl, Mon-El (he's a teenager in most versions), Mongul, Captain Marvel 4) J'onn J'onzz, Power Girl (She's related to the slightly weaker E-2 Superman), Other Marvel family members, Solomon Grundy (though I have no idea why) 5) Wonder Woman, Orion, Maxima 6) Big Barda, Knockout, Superboy (current), Mammoth Why is Wonder Woman so low? It's where she seems to be unless a writer is driectly comparing her to Superman. Then she's always an "equal or near-equal". I just don't see the evidence in her own comic, per- or post-crisis. Keith "If pressed, I might allow that Captain Marvel should be on Supes' level" Curtis Personally I think that I would put Soloman Grundyone level higher. His strength is pretty formidable AND he is well nigh impossible to hurt as he doesn't breath and doesn't seem to feel any pain . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Extra Dimensional Travel (From Point in Current World to Point in World Where Powers and STR are what current Writer Wants for Superman), NCC (-2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? My personal list: Why is Wonder Woman so low? It's where she seems to be unless a writer is driectly comparing her to Superman. Then she's always an "equal or near-equal". I just don't see the evidence in her own comic, per- or post-crisis. OK. I know there is going to be some variation between writers depending on the needs of the story, but it chaps my hide when characters have wildly fluctuating abilities without an expanation. I never really paid attention to WW, but recently I have seen the following examples thet confuse me (SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ TRINITY OR OMAC): Trinity ( Matt Wagner): WW has has trouble fighting a trained normal minion, and is easily handled by R'as Al Ghul. Bizzaro is the evil big gun in the book, and he is dealt with by Supes or Batman. WW should be able to hang with him, if I understand the character. OMAC (Rucka): WW goes toe-to-toe with Superman. They go into outer space without the benefit of space suits--which I thought Supes couldn't really do anymore, much less WW. She is shown to be weaker than he is, but basically right on par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Rucka writes Wonder Woman's book and has been doing so for almost three years. I would tend to trust his interpretation, even thoguh I know a lot of long times fans hate it... AFAIK, Trinity is supposed to be the first meeting of Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman. Havin'g not read it, I can't say much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? The intelligence of Aquaman? That explains so much. (Supreme Serpent wipes spewn soda off of monitor while regretting he can't rep OddHat again so soon...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? One thing to remember about the Marvel's (all call them selves Captain Now BTW). They share a single power source, that gets divided based on the number active So If one is active I would say on par with supes (95%) If two are active then they are far less If all three even lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? One thing to remember about the Marvel's (all call them selves Captain Now BTW). They share a single power source, that gets divided based on the number active So If one is active I would say on par with supes (95%) If two are active then they are far less If all three even lower Keep in mind that dividing STR in half constitutes only -5 STR to the primary character. Captain Marvel might be 125 when alone, 120 when Mary is also powered, and 115 when Jr and Uncle are also powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Keep in mind that dividing STR in half constitutes only -5 STR to the primary character. Captain Marvel might be 125 when alone' date=' 120 when Mary is also powered, and 115 when Jr and Uncle are also powered. [/quote'] That is true in game terms, but in effectiveness, they seem to be a bit more impaired. Cap was unable to beat Captain Nazi until the others released the power. It sounds like more than a difference of 1 DC. Perhaps 3 DCs and 3 pt.s of DEX, 5 points of Defenses, etc. Keith "You'd have to have an agreed starting point to determine the loss" Curtis PS. Doesn't Freddy go by the horrible moniker of CM3, now? I always pitied him as the only hero on earth who can't properly introduce himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Regarding CM3, yes and no, it is more of a nick name for him than his real "Heroic" name (He also now goes by just Captain Marvel instead of CM Jr) Jason "A Captain Marvel Fanatic" Wedel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? For what it is worth: My world's Superman has a Str of 15, +60 1/2 end and +50 str in a multipower that is x2 End, so basicaly Str 125 End 14 He has an END of 80, a recovery of 25 & speed of 7 Defenses are in a MP, but the default slot is: Uber Defence I: (Total: 100 Active Cost, 67 Real Cost) Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (x2; +1/2) (45 Active Points) (Real Cost: 45) plus Armor (10 PD/10 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (37 Active Points) (Real Cost: 37) plus Power Defense (10 points), Hardened (+1/4) (12 Active Points) (Real Cost: 12) plus Damage Resistance (10 Power Def.), Hardened (+1/4) (6 Active Points) (Real Cost: 6) Adding to a 20/20 defence gives you 40/40 also outside of the MP is 50% Damage reduction for Physical & Energy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? That is true in game terms, but in effectiveness, they seem to be a bit more impaired. Cap was unable to beat Captain Nazi until the others released the power. It sounds like more than a difference of 1 DC. Perhaps 3 DCs and 3 pt.s of DEX, 5 points of Defenses, etc. Keith "You'd have to have an agreed starting point to determine the loss" Curtis PS. Doesn't Freddy go by the horrible moniker of CM3, now? I always pitied him as the only hero on earth who can't properly introduce himself. The STR chart uses what it uses. You can alter it to better fit your perception but by-the-book -5 STR makes you half as strong [which is what is being conveyed in the comic] as you were. I didn't design the linear nature of the STR chart, I just bring the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? I agree completely with the lifting values. Unfortunately, lifting is logarithmic, while damage progression is linear. Someone with 95 STR can lift 50% the weight lifted by a 100 STR person, but does 95% of their damage. Neither solution is perfect. Keith "Trying to find a middle ground" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? I agree completely with the lifting values. Unfortunately, lifting is logarithmic, while damage progression is linear. Someone with 95 STR can lift 50% the weight lifted by a 100 STR person, but does 95% of their damage. Neither solution is perfect. Keith "Trying to find a middle ground" Curtis "What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or is he just born with a heart full of neutrality?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? "What makes a good man go neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or is he just born with a heart full of neutrality?" "It's none of those things, but is instead a quest, nay, a yearning for a balanced cost for STR and a reasonable way to handle lifting capacity vs. damage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: Superman's current STR: 365+? Not to mention that it takes dramatically exponential increases in lifting capacity to double your leaping distance. "I can lift 400kg and leap 8 meters!" "Ha! Puny mortal! I can lift 16 times that - 6.4 tons, and leap...wtf - 16 meters?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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