Presence attacks never work?

[The Souljourner]

Ok, so to make a presence attack, you roll 1d6 per 5 presence and if you equal or beat the target's Presence or EGO, you impress them. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but that's the gist.

 

Here's what I don't get. 20 presence is 4d6 which is an average of 14. To roll 20 on 4d6 is really really unlikely. So most of the time you can't even impress yourself? In fact, most of the time you'll only be able to impress someone 2/3 your presence (well, 7/10, but close enough). Seems like presence attacks should be like 1d6 for every 3 or 4 presence, to make it a bit more likely that you can impress someone not so far under you.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Nate

[SteelDoom]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

It's pretty easy to get a bonus to the roll. Sure, if you talk calmly to yourself you are not going to be impressed. However if you yell and have an appropriate speach and maybe brandish a weapon... then you get enough to go for brown trowsers time. Especially when you realise you are yelling into a mirror and are likely insane!

[Mike W]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Ok, so to make a presence attack, you roll 1d6 per 5 presence and if you equal or beat the target's Presence or EGO, you impress them. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but that's the gist.

 

Here's what I don't get. 20 presence is 4d6 which is an average of 14. To roll 20 on 4d6 is really really unlikely. So most of the time you can't even impress yourself? In fact, most of the time you'll only be able to impress someone 2/3 your presence (well, 7/10, but close enough). Seems like presence attacks should be like 1d6 for every 3 or 4 presence, to make it a bit more likely that you can impress someone not so far under you.

 

Thoughts?

 

-Nate

 

There are a boatload of modifiers and it is important that you remember them when you have someone trying a presence attack. Go through the list and you'll find that Batman gets a HUGE bonus when he does his standard "dive out of the shadows" move to punk some bad guys.

 

+1D6 surprise

+1D6 for appropriate setting

+1D6 for exhibiting a power(gliding, most bad guys don't do three story free falls)

 

Plus Batman gets a bonus for his Reputation(that's at least 2D6, maybe 3). So all of a sudden a 20 PRE Batman(not the Batgod of JLA, but the Batman from Detective) has about 9D6 of presence to roll against a punk with maybe 13 PRE. He's got EGO +10 in the bag and has a good chance at +20. Of course, there are also the Psych Lims of the target to consider. And we still haven't given Batman any soliliquy bonus yet. And if he decks a guy as he descends, he gets a violent action bonus too. Add it all up, and that's how Bruce Wayne can have a 20 PRE but Batman can make common thugs wet themselves just by snarling at them.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

". . . I swear to God!"

 

"Swear to me!"

[Sketchpad]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

The thing is, most of the time, at least in my games, punks and common criminals only have about a 15 PRE at most ... so, using an average roll of 4 on 4d6, a character may impress someone with only a 20 PRE. It's the mastermind villains that you gotta worry about

 

Plus Batman gets a bonus for his Reputation(that's at least 2D6, maybe 3). So all of a sudden a 20 PRE Batman(not the Batgod of JLA, but the Batman from Detective) has about 9D6 of presence to roll against a punk with maybe 13 PRE. He's got EGO +10 in the bag and has a good chance at +20. Of course, there are also the Psych Lims of the target to consider. And we still haven't given Batman any soliliquy bonus yet. And if he decks a guy as he descends, he gets a violent action bonus too. Add it all up, and that's how Bruce Wayne can have a 20 PRE but Batman can make common thugs wet themselves just by snarling at them.

 

Agreed ... not to mention that I'd also by the costume with a PRE boost, as it allows him to have some anonymity and just damn scary ... especially when he comes out of nowhere (+2d6), slams into the guy (+2d6) and lifts him up by his foot without straining (+1d6) ... That's not even taking into account that the perp will more than likely recognize him (Rep 14-/+4d6) or what he might say to interrogate him

[prestidigitator]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Hmm. Yeah, my common criminals usually have a Pre that is about average (8-12), but might have a Reputation Perk and/or Disadvantage.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

So most of the time you can't even impress yourself? In fact' date=' most of the time you'll only be able to impress someone 2/3 your presence (well, 7/10, but close enough). [/quote']

 

Why do feel that you should be able to impress some who is just as "impressive" as yourself? To me, at least, it makes perfect sense that in general you should have a higher PRE than someone in order to have a reasonable chance of impressing them.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Mike W has it right -- its all in the situational modifiers, which makes a lot of sense for this sort of resolution.

[David Johnston]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Ok, so to make a presence attack, you roll 1d6 per 5 presence and if you equal or beat the target's Presence or EGO, you impress them. I'm paraphrasing from memory, but that's the gist.

 

Here's what I don't get. 20 presence is 4d6 which is an average of 14. To roll 20 on 4d6 is really really unlikely. So most of the time you can't even impress yourself?

 

Frankly that's true to life. I'm not really impressed by myself.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Just don't argue with your GM about how "violent" your action is. He's likely to strangle you. Now, THAT'S scary.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Frankly that's true to life. I'm not really impressed by myself.

OTOH, I know plenty of people that ARE impressed by themselves, but can't impress anyone else.

 

Or have we wandered off-topic?

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

OTOH, I know plenty of people that ARE impressed by themselves, but can't impress anyone else.

 

Or have we wandered off-topic?

 

The lower your presence goes, the more likely you are to impress yourself.

[Vondy]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

I do presence attacks as opposed skill rolls with the results based on MoS. Its faster and I've found it has more varied results. I also allow skill levels with it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

It's all about the modifiers.

 

Von D Man's option is a good one I've seen used by many GMs to make PRE Attacks more user friendly and generally effective, though I've never used it myself.

[Doc Tough]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Doc sez...

 

PRE Attacks are so genre, but the mechanics often get abused. I usuaully counsel my players to use them sparingly or else they become hack very quickly.

 

The problem I have more often than the Attack is the reaction from players. Some players do play out the attack well, but rarely will they let themselves embrace the effects of higher value attack results (ie FLEE).

 

Doc Tough

[Karmakaze]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Does anyone ever use PRE attacks for non-fear purposes? Consider, for example, the standard Pulp trope of the girl stoping traffic by pulling back her skirt. Is there an equivalent to "very violent action" as a modifer for a PRE attack that's not fear based?

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Not really though situation and "agrees with existing behavior" sorts of things would play more there.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Does anyone ever use PRE attacks for non-fear purposes? Consider' date=' for example, the standard Pulp trope of the girl stoping traffic by pulling back her skirt. Is there an equivalent to "very violent action" as a modifer for a PRE attack that's not fear based?[/quote']

 

Well, I once saw an episode of the TV series Hercules: The Legendary Journeys that might be equivalent. Hercules is in the middle of a fight with a platoon of thugs when his sister, the goddess Aphrodite, appears to ask his help. Herc not really being in a position to leave at the moment, Aphrodite calls out, "Hey, boys!" and pops her top. The fight screeches to a jaw-dropping halt.

 

I would call that a "very" action of some kind.

 

Responding to the more general question, I've had PCs use Presence Attacks on a few occasions to "rally the troops," inspiring them to regroup and fight on.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

You can use PRE attacks for the full gamut of emotions. Fear is not the only option.

[Vanguard00]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Does anyone ever use PRE attacks for non-fear purposes? Consider' date=' for example, the standard Pulp trope of the girl stoping traffic by pulling back her skirt. Is there an equivalent to "very violent action" as a modifer for a PRE attack that's not fear based?[/quote']

PRE attacks are a hoot when used right. They shouldn't just be used for fear purposes.

 

- Impress the ladies before hitting 'em with a Seduction roll.

- Rally/inspire the troops with a good PRE attack prior to using Teamwork or Tactics.

- Get that citizen to call the ambulance NOW and then wait for them to arrive rather than stand around gawking.

- Hit the press with a little PRE attack before answering some questions and you'll likely get a better bite on the 5 o'clock news.

- Swagger and brag a bit with a PRE attack just before you sit down at the poker table and you might just pull off some 'heroic' bluffs.

- Use your own PRE to inspire someone else to greatness (when it's safe): "Come on, Johnny. I know you're tired but I bet you can do just two more pull-ups!"

- Use for no reaction whatsoever--just be impressive. "Remember, kids: Vanguard says no to drugs."

 

Used properly, PRE attacks can be a hoot.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

 

I would call that a "very" action of some kind.

 

Display of a very superior power. 2d6, if not more.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Well' date=' I once saw an episode of the TV series [i']Hercules: The Legendary Journeys[/i] that might be equivalent. Hercules is in the middle of a fight with a platoon of thugs when his sister, the goddess Aphrodite, appears to ask his help. Herc not really being in a position to leave at the moment, Aphrodite calls out, "Hey, boys!" and pops her top. The fight screeches to a jaw-dropping halt.

 

That's a COM Attack, not a PRE Attack. I've watched the show; Aphrodite didn't have much true charisma.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Does anyone ever use PRE attacks for non-fear purposes? Consider' date=' for example, the standard Pulp trope of the girl stoping traffic by pulling back her skirt. Is there an equivalent to "very violent action" as a modifer for a PRE attack that's not fear based?[/quote']

 

I've used and seen other players use PRE Attacks to plenty of things not involving fear. One of my characters constantly used PRE Attacks get convince the innocent bystandards to take cover instead of standing there gawking (well, that's kinda like fear, but indirect) and impress the local police force into treating him like he was in charge. A player in a recent campaign I was running had a jedi type character who used PRE Attacks as his "jedi mind trick" to talk people into doing all sorts of things (mainly things that went above and beyond what Persuasion or Interrogation would allow, but not quite in the realm of Mind Control).

[Karmakaze]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

Most of the listed situational modifiers are weighted to fear, though.

 

"exhibiting a power" or "violent action" really don't map to non-fear PRE so well.

 

What modifiers would you allow for, say inspiration, or "sex appeal" PRE attacks.

 

If you're bamboozling a crowd, is there a point where a PRE attack is a better mechanic than, say, a Persusaion skill roll?

[Vanguard00]

Re: Presence attacks never work?

 

What modifiers would you allow for' date=' say inspiration, or "sex appeal" PRE attacks.[/quote']

If I remember correctly the GM awarded me something like +1 compliment to my Seduction roll for every level of the attack cuz I had just essentially pulled an Alpha Male move by doing something cool. It's not a hard-and-fast rule but the idea of getting people to pay attention to you is a good thing, in my opinion, and should be rewarded.

 

If you're bamboozling a crowd, is there a point where a PRE attack is a better mechanic than, say, a Persusaion skill roll?

Bamboozling a crowd? I'd let PRE be a complimentary skill roll for that, but I don't think it's appropriate to replace it. After all, if you're essentially trying to convince people of something they know is not true, it won't matter if you're really impressive while doing it. They still probably won't believe you.

 

PRE attacks doesn't necessarily get people to do anything they wouldn't do anyway, but it's an attention-getter. It's a way of putting your best foot forward, so to speak, and making people sit up and take notice. That little jolt of adrenalin you get when reading a good comic or watching your favorite show on TV or seeing an actor in a movie do something really cool...that's a PRE attack (sort of). Cops taking control of disaster situations, calming people down and getting them to safety...that's a PRE attack. A guy coming into the room all loud and obnoxious but obviouslying having a good time...that could be a PRE attack.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts on it. YMMV.