Speedster trick, would you allow this?

[Stone]

+40 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (10" Any Area; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (110 Active Points); Limited Power - only to take items from people Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) - total cost 73 pts

 

 

I am trying to simulate the speedster being able to run into a group of agents/npcs/etc... and take their guns in one attack.

[Edsel]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

It sounds clever and fairly reasonable to me. You'd still need to roll Grabs vs. everyone whose foci you are going to snatch, or use a takeaway maneuver of some sort.

 

The Ultimate Speedster is supposed to be released fairly soon. I'd be surprised if something similar is not included in it.

[McCoy]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I use multiple move-by with grab for that.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

First of all, I think the only to Disarm on STR would be -1, but I'm not near my copy of tyhe Ultimate Brick so that's just a guess.

 

There are at least two "official" versions of that stunt in the USPD in the Speed Powers section. One uses AoE Telekinesis, which is more expensive and generally less effective. The other uses AoE UAA Teleport, which is less expensive and frighteningly effective for the price.

 

Now I will say, Speedsters should definitly be able to disarm multiple "normals" in the blink of an eye. The question is, should your typical Speedster (probably with a STR of 10-20) have a decent chance of taking an OAF from a Brick?

[Trebuchet]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

My only concern as a GM would be the high STR. Figuring a typical speedster having a 15 - 20 STR, +40 STR means he could disarm many bricks, especially if the speedster in question also has Martial Disarm. If this is intended only as a disarming attack vs agents and mooks, then +20 STR should be more than adequate.

 

If you're going to use +40 STR for this, why not just knock all the agents out cold with a +8d6 attack added to the speedster's regular attack?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

My only concern as a GM would be the high STR. Figuring a typical speedster having a 15 - 20 STR' date=' +40 STR means he could disarm many [i']bricks[/i], especially if the speedster in question also has Martial Disarm. If this is intended only as a disarming attack vs agents and mooks, then +20 STR should be more than adequate.

Note that unless the Advantages are also bought for the character's normal Str (the cost listed above might have accounted for that, but it didn't seem to and I'm too lazy to go back and figure it out), only the 40 Str can be used this way. That's still a lot, but not quite so extreme as 50-60 Str, so the character likely won't be quite on par with bricks when using the power. Of course, other speedsters, power blasters, etc., are likely going to be overpowered easily with it....

[Dust Raven]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

+40 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (10" Any Area; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (110 Active Points); Limited Power - only to take items from people Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) - total cost 73 pts

 

 

I am trying to simulate the speedster being able to run into a group of agents/npcs/etc... and take their guns in one attack.

 

In short, no I wouldn't. Instead I'd recomend either of the following:

 

I Got All Your Toys: AoE (any area, x4 area; +1 1/2), Selective (+1/4) for up to xx Active Points of STR; Only To Perform Disarms (-1). Assuming a 40 STR, that's 35 points total cost.

 

Grab Everything And Split!: +20 with Grab By - 40 Points.

[Mike W]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

+40 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (10" Any Area; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (110 Active Points); Limited Power - only to take items from people Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (-1/2) - total cost 73 pts

 

 

I am trying to simulate the speedster being able to run into a group of agents/npcs/etc... and take their guns in one attack.

 

Why do they need +40 STR for this then? It should be a rare agent that has more STR than the hero, all he really needs is about 25 or 30 STR to have enough casual STR for you to make the argument that he can take their guns without a contested roll, especially if the agent can't actually see it coming, so to speak.

[gojira]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

Hmm, I think Telekinesis would be better than STR. Or Stretching+STR+multiple limbs, only for disarm.

 

But move-by's are probably the best option. Add +20 STR for disarm only, any more seems excessive for a typical speeder.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

First of all, I think the only to Disarm on STR would be -1, but I'm not near my copy of tyhe Ultimate Brick so that's just a guess.

 

There are at least two "official" versions of that stunt in the USPD in the Speed Powers section. One uses AoE Telekinesis, which is more expensive and generally less effective. The other uses AoE UAA Teleport, which is less expensive and frighteningly effective for the price.

 

Now I will say, Speedsters should definitly be able to disarm multiple "normals" in the blink of an eye. The question is, should your typical Speedster (probably with a STR of 10-20) have a decent chance of taking an OAF from a Brick?

 

I like and use the Teleport version. It speeds up gameplay in appropriate situations.

 

However, it's not 100% effective. Not all focus-like items have to be bought with focus (ex: Thor's hammer) making them subject to this variant. Also, otherwise slower characters could still use their focus before it's 'grabbed' if they have saved a held action (the optional Cover rule would also work in their favor).

[SteveZilla]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I like and use the Teleport version. It speeds up gameplay in appropriate situations.

 

However, it's not 100% effective. Not all focus-like items have to be bought with focus (ex: Thor's hammer) making them subject to this variant. Also, otherwise slower characters could still use their focus before it's 'grabbed' if they have saved a held action (the optional Cover rule would also work in their favor).

 

With the Teleport version, there is that whole pesky "The character must define a reasonably common set of defenses that cancels out the attack." that I've seen many players conveniently "forget". Also, I would expect the "set of defenses" to be chosen in line with the F/X of such a power -- which IMO restrics the choices a good bit.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I'm with McCoy for using the multiple move-by and grab. You have those combat manuevers available, you should use them. You might need some penalty skill levels to offset the difficulty of doing this to a lot of people at once.

 

As for the +40 STR, I think that can be rationalized like this: it happens so fast that the opponent doesn't really have time to get a good grip and struggle with the speedster. They just don't see it coming. That is best represented by extra STR, even if it is beyond the speedster's normal STR.

 

_________________________________________________________

"Why follow me to higher ground, lost as you swear I am?" - Ed Roland

[Rapier]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I use multiple move-by with grab for that.

Me too. I would just purchase a buttload of levels only with MoveBy Grabs and call it quits.

 

I would disallow this build on general principle. +40 STR? The character should not be able to Disarm anyone more with this attack than they could with a single normal attack. I guess that's not real clear. This would allow a 20 STR Speedster to Disarm a 60 STR Brick. I'm not buying that. Maybe there's some SFX that would warrant this, but I'm just not seeing it.

[Stone]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. I had loaned out my SPDB when I was working on this. I had the 40 STR set up not to add to total (or thought I did), so it would be a 40 STR max (unarming a brick is very unlikely). I went w/40 to represent a surprise element of the attack. It not be good to have the entire move be stopped in tug-a-war w/the 1st agent. I had not considered the move by grabs. I will have to read up on that maneuver, but am I correct in that there is a minus for each additional attack and once you miss no more attacks can be made?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

but am I correct in that there is a minus for each additional attack and once you miss no more attacks can be made?

 

That's correct. It's a rule I usually ignore though, even for Sweeps and Rapid Attack. Especially since the END/Charges are used regardless. If you were to use Rapid Attack to fire 4 bullets at a target and the first missed, the other four still have to go somewhere... Might as well keep rolling to hit.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I had the 40 STR set up not to add to total (or thought I did)' date=' so it would be a 40 STR max (unarming a brick is very unlikely). I went w/40 to represent a surprise element of the attack. [/quote']

 

Just for the record: When a target is Surprised, they only get to use Casual STR to try and resist a disarm. Of course, in mid combat it's unlikely that you will Surprise them, but anyone that doesn't know you are a speedster is probably screwed the first time you do this trick...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

Just for the record: When a target is Surprised' date=' they only get to use Casual STR to try and resist a disarm. Of course, in mid combat it's unlikely that you will Surprise them, but anyone that doesn't know you are a speedster is probably screwed the first time you do this trick...[/quote']

 

This depends on how Surprise is defined. Despite being in combat, one can still be surprised. I've seen several Flash stories where the targets of such Grabs are noted as being unable to react fast enough, or even see it coming, and thus unable to resist having the item removed from their hands. Make the attack IPE so the target doesn't see it coming, and restricting them to casual STR to resist could be very reasonable.

 

OTOH, simply purchasing extra STR to simulate the target's inability to react to the disarm before it's too late also seems a reasonable simulation. He didn't disarm the Brick because he was stronger. He disarmed the Brick because he could time his attack for a split second when the Brick was shifting his grip, and took the device away before the brick could tighten his grip.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

That's correct. It's a rule I usually ignore though' date=' even for Sweeps and Rapid Attack. Especially since the END/Charges are used regardless. If you were to use Rapid Attack to fire 4 bullets at a target and the first missed, the other four still have to go somewhere... Might as well keep rolling to hit.[/quote']

 

I am glad to see there is someone besides myself that ignores this rule. I understand it is supposed to be a balance thing, but it doesn't make sense to me, and I don't find that ignoring it has led to much abuse.

 

___________________________________________________________

"The fiction in her family was that she was never nice.

I'd say she was very, I just did not see the price." - S. Vega

[Dust Raven]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I am glad to see there is someone besides myself that ignores this rule. I understand it is supposed to be a balance thing' date=' but it doesn't make sense to me, and I don't find that ignoring it has led to much abuse.[/quote']

 

Yep. Granted in most cases getting two shots at a -2 does increase your chances to it if you allow both rolls regardless of the success or failure of first, but combine this with a Full Phase action and 1/2 DCV and I think the character has earned that chance. Bracing and Setting take a Full Phase and 1/2 your DCV as well and improve your chance of hitting, and you can't even attack that first Phase. I think it's fair to allow all attempted shots to be rolled separately regardless of whether or not any miss.

 

Hell, there's always Blazing Away which essentially gives you unlimited attacks that only hit on a roll of a 3, and you get to roll each of those separately. And it doesn't even take up extra time or reduce your DCV!

[Talon]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I would probably limit the STR to doubling the character's existing STR (representing the fact that their speed makes the Disarm more effective but not devastatingly so).

[Conduit]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I'd probably allow it but require them to add Extra Time 1 Phase or something similar to show that it takes a full move, maybe limit the area to the fastest movement power.

[nexus]

Re: Speedster trick, would you allow this?

 

I'd allow it. I'd probably require a full phase action and limited the range the speedsters full move and make it two dimenional unless the speedster can fly. The extra strength seems to represent that the speedster does this in the blink of an eye so most opponents would be caught off a guard. There might be exceptions where it wouldn't apply but probably not enough to warrant a limitation in most games.