OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

[OddHat]

As I've been putting together and posting my "Evil Avengers" villain group (the Five), I've been thinking about what makes an interesting villain, the kind you'll enjoy facing and remember years down the road.

 

So, what makes a villain interesting?

[Kharis2000]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

For me, it isn't so much about the powers, or the costume (or lack thereof), or any of that - it's all about the personality. There needs to be something in the character that 'clicks' on some level for me in order to elevate a villain from 'Yawn, it's another mutant' to 'Holy Crap! It's Magneto!'

 

Whether it's a personal code of honor; a sincere love for another; a fondness for chess or abstract impressionism; a good cause being championed the wrong way; or something else, it's all about the way the villain acts, not what his powers are for me. Thinking villains, especially, are a bonus, because that means they can be talked to and possibly dealt with (at least occasionally) without resorting to violence.

[Trebuchet]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

For me, at least, it's villains with their own moral code that they adhere to. In the comics, Dr. Doom and Magneto come to mind. They may be "bad guys" in a technical sense, but they don't see themselves that way and have ideals they follow even if it is disadvantageous to them.

 

In our campaign one memorable villain has been the Emerald Mage, a Takofanes-class sorcerer with a 350 pt Cosmic VPP. Despite being appallingly powerful, he has a strict code of honor and once broke off an attack on MidGuard when he inadvertantly injured a worshipper so he could heal the man. He has never broken his word to the heroes; and despite knowing their secret identities has not exposed them because it simply wouldn't be sporting. He even attended the wedding of the team's co-founder because one of his acolytes was a close friend of the bride.

 

The other one for me has been Fezzik, a gentle giant brick who has twice refused to injure Zl'f when he got his hands on her because he doesn't hurt little girls (that didn't keep him from squeezing her unconscious once and months later defenestrating her from the 5 story walls of Tintagel Castle, but he could just as easily have killed her so you get the point) and is currently 1-1-1 with our female brick Silhouette. Both of the distaff members of MidGuard are itching for a rematch, and the rivalry has become quite personal. It will be only fitting if the two heroines work together to finally beat Fezzik.

[GoldenAge]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Any villain can be great. From Stilt-Man to Ultron, The Riddler to Darkseid... As long as they have a distinct personality and a penchant for unrelenting adherence to their loosing cause. Every villain is a sociopath.

 

Villains are cool because they come strong and go down fighting!

 

The very best villains make you question your moral outlook.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

I would generally agree with the above posts. Having some sense of moral purpose, twisted though it may be, makes for great villains. They might range from religious zealots to self-styled heroes that believe the end justifies the means. They can be especially fun to have around when some of their moral code lines up with that of the players so that they find themselves teaming up from time to time.

 

I would add another type of villain, which is one that is untouchable. The heroes know the guy is scum, but until they have hard evidence they can't just go beat him senseless because as far as the law is concerned he hasn't done anything wrong. This is especially appropriate for mentalists and masters of stealth who may or may not be a combat monsters, but can still be a real challenge for the players.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Agreed, particularly with GoldenAge. It's the personality. Code of honor isn't necessary, but style is paramount. Further, I happen to think that the best ones have a connection to at least one member of the group (or his rivals, if not the heroes).

 

For example, among my favorite villains are:

 

Doctor Storm: Anybody who has watched The Pretender would recognize Storm as a sort of hybrid of Mr. Lyle and Mr. Raines. For those who don't watch the Pretender... what's wrong with you? Seriously, think Dr. Mengele with a penchant for superhumans. Twisted, sadistic, enjoys experimenting on people... and yet, in his way, he is very protective of his subjects. When one of his escaped test subjects was captured by another hero's Hunted and used for bait, he was the one who tipped them off, and helped them with the rescue.

 

Of course, he tried to recapture said test subject immediately, but was shown the error of his ways by the rest of the team.

 

Favorite Element: Not only is he a villain everybody loved to hate (he was so completely evil you couldn't help but do it), but he had that one 'rule' that he enforced strictly - "Nobody hurts my test subjects but me" that threw everybody for a loop.

 

Mars: A relatively minor mutant, with a personality similar to Magneto's and enhanced Presence-related abilities from his mutation. He led a group of 'revolutionaries' after his family was killed by an IHA-like group. He ended up biting the dust in a massive battle at Sanctuary defending his pregnant second wife from Purifier droids.

 

Favorite Element: "There but for the grace of God." Like Magneto, this guy isn't all bad. Hardly; his motivation is understandable, even if his goals are a little out there and his methods are deplorable. Further, I've got a soft spot for any villain who bites in in a heroic manner.

 

Purity: The opposite of Mars, Purity was an anti-mutant fanatic who used a suit of powered armor to put him on the same level as his enemies. Unusual, in a way, for being a suit jockey who used a foil. He and his daughter (the team leader, a mutant with minor pre-cog abilities) ended their long-term animosity for each other in a duel in the heart of his base as the nuclear plant beneath it was about to go solid. They fought to a draw before she convinced him to help her disable the plant and at least save the lives of the people in the surrounding area.

 

Favorite Element: The Vader Effect. Granted, it was no secret to Steel Guard (his daughter) who Purity was, but the animosity between them was fun to work with, as was both of them ending up working together in the end. Also, I liked the "Power Armor as Martial Artist" motif that he had, an exception to my general rule of "powers don't make the difference."

 

Like I said above - there's an element of style that each of them has that puts them above, say, Random Supervillain #36. You get that piece in, and the rest doesn't matter.

 

It's why Foxbat has been popular ever since his first appearance.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

How to build a good villain. The villains that are great have deep backstory. Mr. Freeze, the Joker, and over half of Batman's Rogue's Gallery are great because they were so well developed. The difference between "Mutie of the Week" and "Magneto" is that Magneto has a tremendous backstory and he's extremely well developed. His power is cool & unique in addition to being ****ing scary.

 

Second, the party has to have a personal involvement with them. It isn't enough to take a hero who's been through some crap, redefine him as though he'd gone wrong instead of right, and set him loose on the party. Memories of a villain come from when that guy has REALLY ****ed with someone above & beyond the pale. It isn't enough to get into a fight with Lord Campaign City Destructo - Destructo needs a reason & a motive, and the villains have to have history with him before he'll truly be memorable.

 

In my epic campaign, there's a man named Ellington Snow. He's as evil as they come. When people post WWYCD threads, I mention Snow to note that I can't describe what he'd too, it's often too deplorable (and I know Treb got ticked at another poster some time ago for a similar stunt). It isn't just that Snow is evil.

 

It's that first, he has an ancient rivalry with the PCs unit commander. Second, he headed up the squad that the PCs were in training exercises against. Third, during the initial arc, one of the bad guys turned to the side of good, Ellington then decided that he betrayed him, personally, and murdered him. He also set half the campus on fire and escaped with his team into the darkness.

 

The party has a full blown vendetta against him, and they don't see him very often. Rule three. Great villains are elusive. If you slap someone down in front of the super-team, odds are unless they have an escape-clause power, they don't get to say "We'll meet again" and run off - a smart squad is going to look at the Super Villain and go "COORDINATED ATTACK PATTERN ALPHA!" and drop his STUN into the negatives with their opening shot.

 

The villain must also not be overdone. Even as in my Ravenloft game, where one arch-villain has clearly had a hand in ruining one of the PCs lives from birth (literally - from birth) he still isn't "the reason" behind all the evil and bad things in the world, or in the over arc. That stretches plausibility and paints you into too much of a corner, and often requires too many explanations. Easier to let the villain be who they're meant to be, and then let their motives drive their actions.

 

It doesn't make sense for a super villain to hold a city hostage because it's the thing to do (this is also why I don't do 4 color, because it makes no sense to me) but it DOES make sense for them to (use a power) on (a person, building or other important place) which gets the attention of the local supers team, and he does it all because (primary villainous motive/character background).

 

Then they become memorable. YMMV.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

The two primary factors for me are motivation and modus operandi (or schtick).

 

Motivation has to be real and palpable. None of this "I'm evil because...because!" crap. It could be anything, really, but there should be a definite logic behind it all, even if it is warped or deluded. Examples: (These are quick and dirty, I know that these characters are actually much more complex than a single sentence can capture.) The Joker is a total psychopath he actually finds humor in creating death and chaos. The Riddler needs to prove his superior intellect. Lex Luthor needs to be the most powerful man on Earth. Dr. Doom already sees himself as the most powerful man on Earth, and views it as a responsibility to recreate the world in a more perfect form. The Juggernaut was a hate filled man who lived to destroy his half-brother for an imagined slight.

 

Schtick is important because it helps to seperate them from the others. A good schtick is a thing of beauty and can inspire fear, respect, or simply a headache. The Joker's deadly jokes and fatal rictus. The Riddler's riddles. Lex's arrogant manipulations and strategies. Dr. Doom as the iron dictator. The Juggernaut's irresistable force.

 

Combine the two and you've got a classic villain. Use only one, and you get a nobody or a joke.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Some ideas:

 

For a villain team leader, make him obnoxious... constantly trash-talking the heroes... and give him a good 'escape clause', making it hard to capture him. The heroes will *really* want to take him down, understand it is a challenge, and feel a real sense of triumph when he is finally captured and taken to Stronghold.

 

For a regular villain, make him someone that keeps the heroes thinking, 'if only circumstances were different, we could be friends.' (Amber reference: 'Why did you have to be Corwin's son!')

 

One idea I had: 1980's, US official superteam and Russian official superteam. One member of each group is somewhere in Europe, and there is some emergency that requires the Russian's help (say, a burning orphanage). The two meet in front of the burning building... no words are exchanged, but the Russian (a speedster) eyes the American's (energy blaster) weapon, obviously unable to turn his back on his fully armed opponent. The American, realizing this, takes the clip out of the weapon and tosses it to the Russian. The Russian then pockets the clip and proceeds to rescue the children. Afterword, the Russian again is opposite the American... takes the clip out and looks at it, realizing that he can defeat his opponent... and tosses the clip back. They both nod slightly, and withdraw...

[Badger]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Lots of things factor in. Motivation, goal, personality. Truthfully, more often than not my favorite villains are one where I say to myself "Man, I hate this guy" followed by "but he is cool in a disturbingly amoral kind of way".

 

I call it "Delightfully Diabolical".

[Wanderer]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

To all the apt points others have mentioned, I only have to remark that many interesting villains roughly divide in two main categories: the ones we love to hate, and the ones we'd love to be.

 

The former are the ones whose motivation and personality we cannot find anything redeeming or sympathetic, but whose modus operandi, nature, or style is just too appealing, and we cannot help but wish to see again and again. In comic and RPG terms, they are the recurring villains that rarely get to be main characters or PCs. E.g. Red Skull, the Joker.

 

The latter are the ones who have some redeeming features in their personality, a justifiable motivation, something that would make the viewer to "root" or sympathize for him in some way, and maybe wish to be if they were able to toss out scruples about societal mores. These characters might well be (anti-)heroes in comic stories and RPG games and for people with different ethical sensibilities, and often get to be the stars of their own story arc or recurring miniseries, repeteadely crossing the line between (anti-)herodom and outright villainy (typically when written by different authors). The typical examples are Dr. Doom and Magneto. They wave from being villains in four-color comics and games, to anti-heroes and noble enemies that might as well and often team up with true-blue heroes as fight them in Bronze Age comics/games, to being outright heroes in Iron Age settings and stories.

[Hermit]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Not much to add, Log and others have already covered what I'd say. Motivation, Style, Personality and Background all combine to make a villain stand out. Another thing to keep in mind is what 'age ' you are going for in your style of play, because the villain you use is a big factor in defining this. Another nice touch is to make sure they connect with the heroes in some way, either in similarities or contrast. How they reflect and relate to the Player Characters often defines whether they'll work or not and can add even more interest on the player's part. If a hero has a part in a villain's origin story, or vice versa, it can create a useful link the GM can draw on.

 

Then again I'm a big fan of making villains out of PC relations and love interests... must be a sickness.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

In addition to the other excellent points above, I always find it interesting when a villain affects one or more of the heroes on some personal level. This goes beyond the villain just being the heroes' recurring nemesis. The villain could have a close personal relationship to some heroes, such as being a family member "gone wrong" (Darkseid to Orion, or Loki to Thor), or be a former friend or romantic relation (Magneto to Professor X, Catwoman to Batman). The villain might have been a rival to a hero in their youth, (Dr. Doom to Mr. Fantastic, Baron Mordo to Dr. Strange). Perhaps the villain is the "dark reflection" of a hero, either because their powers are comparable (Professor Zoom to the Flash), or because the villain is the antithesis of what the hero stands for (Red Skull to Captain America).

 

I find that that personal dimension adds a great deal to the interactions between heroes and villains. If using teams, it's usually easy to work one or more such villains in. OTOH it's possible for one villain to affect several members of a team that way; the most recent appearance of Ultron in the Avengers comic highlighted the long and complex connections between that monster and various Avengers.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

I don't know where my mind is, but I choked on my coke as I read this...

... or romantic relation (Magneto to Professor X' date=' ...[/quote']

[TheTemplar]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

In addition to all the really excellent villain compenents that have been brought up so far (personality, schtick, motivation, etc.) I would also add that a really memorable villain needs a really great plan. Any villain worth his salt is going to have some sort of scheme. The really smart ones will plan feints or other deceptions or twists into their plans to keep the heroes off balance.

 

I think it's safe to say that my all time favorite comic book villain is Lex Luthor. He's just the man. He's got plans upon plans upon plans, backups for his backups' backups, and as many multi-purpose contingencies as he has appendages. Defeating this sort of villain is almost never certain, as they're nearly always a step or two ahead of the heroes. Even when the heroes score a minor victory, it only furthers the Planner's Ultimate Endgame.

 

Discovering one of The Planner's secret schemes should be just as exciting (if not moreso) than winning most combats. Even if his scheme is foiled, though, there never seems to be enough evidence to tie The Planner to it to take him down once and for all, and thus he keeps coming back, challenging players over and over again with his elaborate Machiavellian plots.

[Wanderer]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

In addition to all the other excellent points raised before, here's one I'd not thought of previously: problem-solving talent and survival capability: no matter how bad or lethal the circumstances where the heroes (or the villain's own treachery) manage to land him into, he can be garanteed to eventually overcome them somehow and make a brilliant comeback: granted, this feels best when the villain is of the "sympathetic" brand I talked about of, and/or has some ethical restriction to his M.O. so that his return means some other juicy confrontation with the heroes and not some other slaughter of innocents. Dr. Doom making yet another escape from death or confinement to hatch another brilliant scheme to conquer the world or humble the FF is enticing, while the Joker breaking out of Arkham for another gratuitous massacre of innocents makes you cringe in frustration.

 

This is good because in addition to have a cool villain available again for another story, it gives the heroes reflected greatness from being able to defeat or contain such a resourceful nemesis: a good example is when Dr. Doom ends up dragged to Hell for breaking a demon pact, and Reed Richards hatches a mad scheme to bring him out of Hell to imprison him into an especially crafted prison dimension: "I can't let you stay in Hell, Victor; we both know you would eventually rule the place" (yep, old Reed was having something of a paranoid episode at the time; but old Victor has managed to steal the powers of divine beings more than once in his career; Mephisto can't really keep him subdued in the long term). Ditto for Thanos "Killing me ? Death is my on-again, off-again girlfriend, and I've stolen God's powers thrice!!".

 

I love them cool anti-heroic Marvel noble larger than life villains: Dr. Doom, Magneto, Thanos...

[casualplayer]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

An interesting villain is one that the players look forward to and the characters dread.

 

Maybe it's just me, with a little voice acting training, but I have a few villains that I don't have to identify or describe but the players know instantly from their speech patterns and phrasing. That's when I know I have done my job well. Demedeus, the Son of Zeus and a Titan, and Commodore of the Blood are two of my favorites. I also enjoy running Durak and Foxbat.

 

Sadly most villains are generic and generically ran. Mechanon is usually a souped-up Dalek. Firewing often fights like a flaming Groo. I've been in games where the villains never say anything distinctive or speak at all aside from growls of rage. Might as well be fighting Grond-of-the-Week.

 

Distinctiveness is the key, otherwise why go to all the trouble of making individual NPCs to homogenize them for the game. I would say the Five that I have seen have distinctiveness in abundance.

[OddHat]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Distinctiveness is the key, otherwise why go to all the trouble of making individual NPCs to homogenize them for the game. I would say the Five that I have seen have distinctiveness in abundance.

 

Thanks.

 

I agree on the importance of voice acting in play. I like to work on finding a villains voice, not just the sound but also the speech patterns. For players, that voice defines the NPC; stats are important, but secondary.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Distinctiveness is the key' date=' otherwise why go to all the trouble of making individual NPCs to homogenize them for the game. I would say the Five that I have seen have distinctiveness in abundance.[/quote']

 

As an aside, in those face-to-face games (not so important in online ones), don't just change your voice for the villain. You've got posture and body language on your side too. I never slouch when playing an imperious, arrogant SOB - back's always as straight as the stick he's got shoved up his tail end.

 

Picking up on the mannerisms of a few old actors is usually a good idea. And I mean old. Folks often recognize the modern ones, which isn't necessarily bad, but they see that reasonably often. If you're swiping mannerisms from Patrick Stewart or Gene Hackman, you've got good sources, but you can flip on the TV and see those fairly reliably. Not to mention the fact that some players will accuse you of swiping things from movies like it's a bad thing.

 

On the other hand, I've found that throwing in a little Peter Lorry, Sydney Greenstreet, or Roddy McDowall goes a long way. Sydney Greenstreet in particular; he's an entirely different sort of arrogant than most of them are used to seeing portrayed. Check out some of the old black and white film noir pieces - it may not be superheroes, but you'll get mannerisms to play on that will go a long way.

[casualplayer]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

Oh sure, Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, etc. I've been stealing Fred MacMurray for inspiration since long before that Alex Ross guy.

[Pulsar2250]

Re: OK, so what makes an interesting villain?

 

for me, an interesting villain is one that the players create during the adventure.... not one they pick out of the hat while creating their characters.

 

This villain is now part of the PC's history, and hopefully the villain will color their actions in the future.

 

Was the villain created because the PCs did something? Well, maybe they won't do that in the future? Maybe the PCs feel guilty, and they'll try to make amends.

 

Was the villain created because the players failed to act? This is always a good one for me to play. With so much power, what do the PCs pay attention to? What guides them when they choose to act?

 

The stories are better if the PCs have a living, and scheming, reminder of their past actions.