Magic Missiles

[bafzoul]

Forgive me if this has been posted somewhere. I was looking for a write up for the AD&D spell magic missiles. I am not sure how to write up a spell that always hits and does damage to almost anything.

 

Thanks

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Always Does Damage: NND, Does Body (defense is Shield spell or similar protections)

 

Always Hits: AE One Hex Accurate with a small metric squidload of Levels to go with it.

 

Somewhere within Fantasy Hero there are guidelines for making absolute powers, where the GM just waves his hands at some point and says, 'You've put enough points into this power, it just works, period'.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Type=Arcane&Subtype=Wizardry&Category=Evocation&Provider=Killer%20Shrike#Magic Missile

[mayapuppies]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

You can also go here: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/FantasyHERO.shtml for tons of D&D spell write-ups as well as many other helpful tidbits

[Old Man]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Uh...Magic Missile only hits living targets.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I can think of 3 ways to build it, the good, the bad and the horribly broken

 

1) good: AoE 1 hex accurate affects desolid NND EB (not does body as 1d4+1 damage per missle hardly does body to a DnD character,)

 

2) bad: AoE 1 hex accurate as above but megascaled so 1 hex = the world (this way you can't DFC from it, which i don't like but may appeal to some)

 

3) The Horribly broken (and my favorite) build it as a summon which continues to attempt movebys on the target until it succeds.

[Frenchman]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Here's our group's take on it:

 

Magic Missile: EB 1d6, Costs END only for the 'first' shot of a volley (+1/4), Indirect (Any origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), NND (Shield Spell; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (34 Active Points); Requires A Magic Roll (Autofire Hits are determined by Magic Roll, not attack roll; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

With the combination of Hex Accurate and No Range Mod, we just waive the attack roll and determine the number of hits from the Magic Roll instead of the attack roll. We also use END only to activate in a funny way, so you pay the same END cost regardless of how many missiles are in a volley.

[JohnTaber]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Steve wrote it up in Digital Hero as well. I don't remember the number...it was pretty expensive as I recall...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Steve wrote it up in Digital Hero as well. I don't remember the number...it was pretty expensive as I recall...

 

I don't recall the # either, but IIRC, it addressed always doing damage, always hitting and getting more missiles at greater power levels, so it was a thorough job. As I recall, much of the cost related to getting multiple missiles, so a 1 missile version for a neophyte wizard would be more manageable in terms of cost. It is a very powerful effect, however.

[Steve Long]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I covered this in my HEROglyphs column in DH #2.

[gojira]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

On the other hand, there's a Mystic Bolt in Sidekick that combines One Hex AoE and No Range Modifier. It's under the section of Example Powers.

 

It's not a perfect adaptation of Magic Missle, but it's pretty close. As long as you can hit DCV 3 and make your magic skill roll, you get the damage.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Oy. Probably the single most annoying spell to convert. If you want to model the effects as closely as possible it can get very complex and expensive. If you want a basic attack that can ignore some DCV and/or defense, it can be pretty easy. Remember that D&D models everything with Armor Class, whereas Hero has both a mechanic to evade (DCV) and a mechanic to prevent/reduce damage (various forms of DEF). So the question of how, "always hits in D&D," translates into Hero is not a very trivial one.

 

I've done conversions of Magic Missile several times, sometimes from builds that look about like KS's and sometimes as something dirt simple, like an EB (remember EBs can be spread, so there's your, "multiple missiles," right there) and a few 2-point CSLs.

[AlHazred]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I liked Steve's version, but removed all those levels and just added NCM. I prefer "really easy to hit with" to "never misses" in my games.

[Savinien]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I shoot the darkness with my magic missile!

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

What is this "Non-Standard Attack Power" advantage people are using?

 

Personally, I'd go without the Does BODY but otherwise agree with KS's writeup.

[Frenchman]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

What is this "Non-Standard Attack Power" advantage people are using?

Its a +1 advantage that is applied when an attack with area of effect, NND, AVLD (either naturally or because its an adjustment/sense affecting power), Explosion, BOECV (either naturally or because its a mental power), or anything else the GM decides is incredibly effective with autofire. On page 252 of ReFred, under AutoFire.

 

Personally' date=' I'd go without the Does BODY but otherwise agree with KS's writeup.[/quote']

I go with it for three reasons:

1 - Magic Missile can harm undead, who take no stun.

2 - Magic Missile should be able to do KB, in my view. I also think it should be able to harm objects, as long as they aren't in the control of another creature.

3 - Not even a 20th level character with ~100 hp can withstand 30 magic missiles (6 castings at that level, some written up mages can get that off in 3 rounds or less) without healing or some kind of defense. Therefore, they do body. Not much body, but a little bit. If you don't want them to do body most of the time, then make 'em a 1/2 d6 EB, they only do body on a 4, 5, or 6.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Therefore' date=' they do body. Not much body, but a little bit. If you don't want them to do body most of the time, then make 'em a 1/2 d6 EB, they only do body on a 4, 5, or 6.[/quote']

 

You could make them 1 point, and rule you still roll a d6, and do 1 BOD only on a 6, if you want really minor BOD. That would mean more than 6 castings required, however.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Therefore' date=' they do body. Not much body, but a little bit. If you don't want them to do body most of the time, then make 'em a 1/2 d6 EB, they only do body on a 4, 5, or 6.[/quote']

 

You could make them 1 point, and rule you still roll a d6, and do 1 BOD only on a 6, if you want really minor BOD. That would mean more than 6 castings required, however.

[CourtFool]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Oy. Probably the single most annoying spell to convert.

 

I disagree. I think Sleep is. A single, suposedly low level spell that effectively knocks a target unconcious with one fell swoop.

 

Oh wait! Strike that. Wish is. Don't come near me with that EDM!

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I disagree. I think Sleep is. A single, suposedly low level spell that effectively knocks a target unconcious with one fell swoop.

 

Oh wait! Strike that. Wish is. Don't come near me with that EDM!

 

How would you limit the Sleep spell only to work on level 5 or lower creatures like D&D does?

 

The reason I'd go with STUN only magic missiles is because they don't affect physical non-living objects and it's effective enough to knock someone that is alive unconcious without reducing their BODY to zip.

 

If you build Undead as automatons, then yes, it wouldn't work against them. But, techinically, they are non-living objects and really D&D's magic missile shouldn't have worked on them either. So, it's the D&D material that's wrong, not HERO.

[Frenchman]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

If you build Undead as automatons' date=' then yes, it wouldn't work against them. But, techinically, they are non-living objects and really D&D's magic missile shouldn't have worked on them either. So, it's the D&D material that's wrong, not HERO.[/quote']

I agree, it's D&Ds fault:eg:

Thats why I say they can do body and destroy objects, because they are a manifestation of Force. If they were 'spirit energy' or something else that interacted in a special way with living/undead things, then I'd agree with you, but if I'm keeping the sFX of Force Bolts, then they can hurt just about anything and deal body.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

I disagree. I think Sleep is. A single, suposedly low level spell that effectively knocks a target unconcious with one fell swoop.

 

Oh wait! Strike that. Wish is. Don't come near me with that EDM!

Perhaps. Those have their issues too, but I just never seem to find them quite as annoying as Magic Missile for some reason. I can usually go pretty directly to Ego Blast or a Mental Entangle for Sleep, and if we really want to make system for Wish, there's always VPPs and Transforms (I seriously can't stand the EDM solution either).

 

But Magic Missile? That, "basic first level attack spell," that just about every magic user winds up with and that clashes so harshly with the Hero mechanics...? I don't know. It just grates on my nerves most times.

[Rapier]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Magic Missles is one of "those issues" with Hero System.

 

It all comes back to the Invulnerability thing.

 

Hero doesn't deal well with absolutes (and IMO, rightly so). Magic Missles ALWAYS hit and Invulnerabilty means you NEVER take damage.

 

Hero doesn't do those well. There are ALWAYS ways around it, but it's not like there is a clear, cut-and-dried method.

 

As far as I'm concerned, that is a good thing. There SHOULD be no absolutes. I lvl 1 mage should not be able to pepper a lvl 100 demilich with pissy little missles.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

Usually we use something like this:

 

2D6 RKA, Area Effect: Accurate

 

It's usually the most effective Magic Missile for the number of points spent.

 

Of course, if the GM allows, you could use a Change Environment with the limitation Instant to cover an area with magic missiles for a phase (and do 1-3 points of damage to those in the area).

[Hierax]

Re: Magic Missiles

 

FWIW, here's some MM stuff:

 

Magic Missile Damage:

• AD&D: RKA d6-1 (10 Base Points)

• xD&D Average: RKA d6 (15 Base Points)

• Basic D&D: RKA d6+1 (20 Base Points)

Magic Missile Options:

• Always Hits/Never Misses:

• OCV + x (many people)
  
  
• Area of Effect (One Hex, Accurate) and Line of Sight (+½)
  
  
• Area of Effect (Mega-Scale, Accurate/Selective Target)
  
  
• BOECV
  
  
• Doesn’t Miss (“Indiana†Joe Claffey, Vendark) +1
  
  
• Hierax House Rule: "Always Hits Advantage" (AHA) for +1 = the semi-official Area of Effect (One Hex, Accurate) and Line of Sight (+½). Similar concept to NND but essentially just "
  No Normal DCV
  " also for +1 and requires +1 more for Does BODY. The "Absolute Effect Rule" (FH.250-251) would seem to allow for this (just not bothering with the massive +OCV Kludge).
  
  
• Actually Can Miss: Note officially older Original and Basic D&D Magic Missiles were just like a +1 Arrow that could miss!

• Always Damages:

• AVLD (+1½), Does BODY (+1) vs. ? force field, power def, ...
  
  
• NND (+1; vs ...), Does BODY (+1)
  
  
• Penetrating (+½)

• Multiple Missiles:

• Autofire (AF)
  
  
• Multiple Attack Advantage (MAA)
  
  
• Rapid Fire
  
  
• Reduced Penetration (large attack divided up)

Magic Missile Sample:

• MAGIC MISSILE 5: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +¼), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; DCV 3; +½), No Normal Defense (Shield Spell, or Brooch of Shielding, or Not Visible to Caster; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (3 shots; +¼), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (50 Active Points); Can Not Target Specific Hit Locations (DH2.4-5; -½), Inanimate Objects Can Not Be Damaged (-¼), No Knockback (-¼).

• MAGIC MISSILE 6: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +¼), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; DCV 3; +½), Line Of Sight (+½), Affects Desolidified Any form (+½), No Normal Defense (Shield Spell, or Brooch of Shielding, or Not Visible to Caster; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (3 shots; +¼), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (60 Active Points); Can Not Target Specific Hit Locations (DH2.4-5; -½), Inanimate Objects Can Not Be Damaged (-¼), No Knockback (-¼).

Official (or semi-official) Hero Versions:

• Magical Missile: RKA 1 point, NND (defense is certain specific spells or talismans, or being an unloving inanimate object; +1), Does BODY (+1), Area Of Effect (One Hex Accurate; +½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Line Of Sight (maximum range of 15†+ [3†per level of power]; +¼) (21 Active Points); Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Limited Rapid Fire (only one “shot†per 10 Experience Points earned, and no target can be more than 2†from another target; -¼), Cannot Use Targeting (-½), No Knockback (-¼) (total cost: 8 points) plus +20 with Magical Missile (total cost: 40 points). Total cost: 48 points.

(Steven S. Long, Digital Hero #2, July/Aug 2002, p.4-5)

• Wizard’s Missile: RKA 1d6, Increased Maximum Range (x5, or 550â€; +¼), No Range Modifier (+½) (26 Active Points); OAF (Wizard’s Staff; -1), Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Requires A Magic Roll (-½). Total cost: 9 points.

(Hero Games Writers Guidelines p.21)

• Magic Bolt: RKA 1d6, NND (defense is Power Defense; +1), Does BODY (+1) (45 Active Points); OAF (wizard’s staff; -1), Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Requires A Magic Roll (-½). Total cost: 15 points.

(Hero System Genre By Genre p.16)

Other Hero Versions:

 

• Magic Missile (Hawkwind-1): RKA 1 pip (5 Base Points); Autofire (5; +½), No Range Penalty (+½), Penetrating (+½) (+1½; 12.5 Active Points); Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), only vs. animate targets (-¼) (-¾; 7 Real Points).

• Magic Missile (Hawkwind-2): RKA 1d6-1 (10 Base Points); Autofire (5; +½), No Range Penalty (+½), Penetrating (+½) (+1½; 25 Active Points); Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), only vs. animate targets (-¼) (-¾; 14 Real Points).

• Magic Missile (Hawkwind-3): RKA 1d6 (15 Base Points); Autofire (5; +½), No Range Penalty (+½), Penetrating (+½) (+1½; 37.5 Active Points); Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), only vs. animate targets (-¼) (-¾; 21 Real Points).

• Magic Missile (Scott Nolan): RKA 1 pip (5 Base Points); NND (defense is ‘Shield’ spell or any of the numerous anti-magic-missile spells; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (x5; +½), No Range Penalty (+½) (20 Active Points); Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Requires Skill Roll (-½) (10 Real Points).

• Magic Missile (Michael Harvey): RKA 1d6 (15 Base Points); Autofire (+½), NND (+1), Does BODY (+1), No Range Penalty (+½) (74 Active Points); Charges (1; -2), Extra Time (5 Minutes; -2), Delayed Effect (-½), Focus (IIF Spellbook, fragile, only for memorization; -½), Gestures (-¼), Incantations (-¼), Can only memorize/prepare after 8 hours of sleep (-½) (11 Real Points).
  plus OCV +7 with single attack (14 points)

• Magic Missile (James Gillen): RKA 1d6-1 (10); Autofire, AP, No Range Penalty, (25 points); OCV +2 (35 points); not vs. the Shield spell (-1/4), not vs. inanimate objects (-1/2), no called shots (-1/4), Gestures, Incantations, Concentrate (½ DCV, -1/4), can’t cast in armor (-1/2), 3 charges, costs END (- 1¾) (-4; 7 Real Points).