Enforcer84 Posted June 15, 2003 Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 Then I shouldn't mention that Warlord is a woman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted June 15, 2003 Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Now, we both know that is not official. Actualy it is as the rules OFFICIALY allow you to change anything you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by Ndreare Actualy it is as the rules OFFICIALY allow you to change anything you want. That is a silly statement. "Officially" modifying a suggestion that you can change a rule does not change the official point value. Why are you posting a semantic dispute anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybris Posted June 15, 2003 Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 Then I shouldn't mention that Warlord is a woman? Has she a cooler armor than the one depicted in CKC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombstone_Frank Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 The Strongest is.... HULK In the Offical write-up in the Games Trader Magizine for the month of June, Hero System (along with SAS, Marvel, and MnM) all did a Hulk conversion to promote the movie... Hulk has a STR of 80. He also has "Madder Hulk Gets, Stronger Hulk Gets" Aid of 2d6 max of 60 pts of STR. That tops out at an astounding 140 STR. Hulk smash puny Grond..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Re: The Strongest is.... HULK Originally posted by Tombstone_Frank In the Offical write-up in the Games Trader Magizine for the month of June, Hero System (along with SAS, Marvel, and MnM) all did a Hulk conversion to promote the movie... Hulk has a STR of 80. He also has "Madder Hulk Gets, Stronger Hulk Gets" Aid of 2d6 max of 60 pts of STR. That tops out at an astounding 140 STR. Hulk smash puny Grond..... Yes! Hulk does smash puny Grond! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfish52 Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 The comical thing to me is when people describe things in heroese. so and so is 32" tall and has a strength of 100. to the non hero folks out there that has got to sound weird. that is why I found the book to be so hard to read. I have played champions since my 11th birthday in '82 and i see the structure of the game has remained pretty much unchanged. It is like having an rpg/tactical game combo. as the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I did adapt a narrative style for combat in champions a long time ago. so there have been no ''evening of combat" scenarios for me. anyway, I always liked RIPPER. I can't wait for the VIPER book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Re: The Strongest is.... HULK Originally posted by Tombstone_Frank In the Offical write-up in the Games Trader Magizine for the month of June, Hero System (along with SAS, Marvel, and MnM) all did a Hulk conversion to promote the movie... Hulk has a STR of 80. He also has "Madder Hulk Gets, Stronger Hulk Gets" Aid of 2d6 max of 60 pts of STR. That tops out at an astounding 140 STR. Hulk smash puny Grond..... That's just plain overkill, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Re: Re: The Strongest is.... HULK Originally posted by Kristopher That's just plain overkill, IMO. Maybe, but I've seen him swing a train and it's cars like a bicycle chain and hold up a collapsing mountain range. I think they're being pretty conservative. There's always a problem translating a fluid medium like a comic to a fixed point like a set of RPG stats since the writers have the character do whatever the story calls for, while the RPG stats establish boundaries everyine abides by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 It's always possible to adjust Hulk's maximum up or down depending on your concept; but now that Champions has allowed Dr. Destroyer a 30 DC attack, Hulk needs to stay competitive. It's actually been said in various "official" Marvel sources that no one is sure if the Hulk really has an upper limit to his enhanced strength. That's one concept that's hard to do in HERO unless you allow the pure cheese of an Aid to Strength that also Aids itself at the same time, so that the maximum keeps rising. In the case of Darren Watts's fine Hulk writeup in Game Trader, though, it would take a couple of Turns of him being Enraged for him to reach his upper limit. That's quite a bit of time in a HERO combat, giving opponents a chance to take the Hulk down before his strength becomes overwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Re: Re: The Strongest is.... HULK Originally posted by Kristopher That's just plain overkill, IMO. Have you read the Hulk? He would be a threat for Dr. Destroyer by himself. Many comic book heroes would have to be built with three or four or more times as many points as a typical champions character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 I meant that the character itself is overkill. I've never understood the appeal of massive, excessive, rediculous power. Characters capable of holding up mountain ranges are silly. (Never mind that a "mountain range" isn't in any way a single object that could be held up.) Superman kicking the moon out of orbit is patently silly -- there's a reason they scaled his power level way down. Throwing a battleship is borderline (since it assumes that the battleship could withstand its own weight on one point). I know I'm running very much against the grain of comic books here, but as I've said before, there are parts of the comic book genre I simply don't care for. 4-Color settings, absurd power levels / feats, and lack of continuity/consistency are right there at the top of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher I meant that the character itself is overkill. I've never understood the appeal of massive, excessive, rediculous power. Characters capable of holding up mountain ranges are silly. (Never mind that a "mountain range" isn't in any way a single object that could be held up.) Superman kicking the moon out of orbit is patently silly -- there's a reason they scaled his power level way down. Throwing a battleship is borderline (since it assumes that the battleship could withstand its own weight on one point). I know I'm running very much against the grain of comic books here, but as I've said before, there are parts of the comic book genre I simply don't care for. 4-Color settings, absurd power levels / feats, and lack of continuity/consistency are right there at the top of the list. I like that stuff. If I wanted realism I would read crime thrillers or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher I meant that the character itself is overkill. I've never understood the appeal of massive, excessive, rediculous power. Characters capable of holding up mountain ranges are silly. (Never mind that a "mountain range" isn't in any way a single object that could be held up.) Superman kicking the moon out of orbit is patently silly -- there's a reason they scaled his power level way down. Throwing a battleship is borderline (since it assumes that the battleship could withstand its own weight on one point). I know I'm running very much against the grain of comic books here, but as I've said before, there are parts of the comic book genre I simply don't care for. 4-Color settings, absurd power levels / feats, and lack of continuity/consistency are right there at the top of the list. Depends on what you read. Superman was scaled down, yes. His powers, as they are defined, also changed. Forcefield (very close to his skin. His jammies don't get trashed, but his cape does), tactile tk (how do you think Superboy got it?). His strength comes from his solar charged cells, his heat vision comes from tapping the power directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I prefer the classic invulnerable Superman to the Forcefield Superman (rip the suit, just keep it comics code approved). Now, I have to ask ... I've seen the phrase 'tactile TK' in a few places, but I don't read Superboy, so ... what the heck does 'tactile telekinesis' actually mean or do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Tactile TK is TK no Range, affects porous substances. Superboy has it, but DC has backed off from John Byrne's initial suggestion that Superman has it. It does make sense to assume, though that Superman's powers are all mental. Flight, Invulnerability, and Strength as manifestations of TK, X-Ray Vision as Remote Seeing, Heat Vision as Pyrokenesis and cold breath as Cryokenesis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by CrosshairCollie I prefer the classic invulnerable Superman to the Forcefield Superman (rip the suit, just keep it comics code approved). Now, I have to ask ... I've seen the phrase 'tactile TK' in a few places, but I don't read Superboy, so ... what the heck does 'tactile telekinesis' actually mean or do? It keeps the battleship from collapsing in on itself when Superman picks it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zarglif69 Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher I meant that the character itself is overkill. I've never understood the appeal of massive, excessive, rediculous power. Characters capable of holding up mountain ranges are silly. (Never mind that a "mountain range" isn't in any way a single object that could be held up.) Superman kicking the moon out of orbit is patently silly -- there's a reason they scaled his power level way down. Throwing a battleship is borderline (since it assumes that the battleship could withstand its own weight on one point). I know I'm running very much against the grain of comic books here, but as I've said before, there are parts of the comic book genre I simply don't care for. 4-Color settings, absurd power levels / feats, and lack of continuity/consistency are right there at the top of the list. Read the section in Champions about "superhero physics." suspend your disbelief. Anyways, I agree with you. On one occaision Superman pushed the Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 eh. all those guns and "realism" so ruined comics for me. Give me cosmic golden agedness or give me a book to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Enforcer84 eh. all those guns and "realism" so ruined comics for me. Give me cosmic golden agedness or give me a book to read. Yes! Realism and tights don't mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCrae Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Re: Re: Re: The Strongest is.... HULK Originally posted by Superskrull There's always a problem translating a fluid medium like a comic to a fixed point like a set of RPG stats since the writers have the character do whatever the story calls for, while the RPG stats establish boundaries everyine abides by. It wouldn't be a problem writing a set of roleplaying rules that really simulate comics. I'm currently working on them, in between other projects. Champions simulates 'genre weirdness' to some extent with soliloquies that take no time and so on. I plan to have rules for things like the writer forgetting a hero has a particular power, characters being more powerful in their own comic book, innocents not getting hurt nearly as often as they should in urban hero battles*, amazing coincidences and more. *This rule wouldn't apply in an Authority style game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 It's not real-world realism I'm looking for, just "within-setting realism." Given that there are beings with fantastic superhuman abilties, logically expand from there. If a character has saved the city scores of times, the city should not instantly demand his head the first time a shapeshifter "puts on his face" and robs a freakin bank. I want consistency. If a character can lift a battleship in issue 9, he should be able to easily lift a bus in issue 17. If A and B are a match in a fight, and B and C are a match in a fight, then (barring some logical reason) A and C should be a match in a fight -- C should not take A out in three moves or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Morningstar70 It all depends on the tactics, and the luck of the hit. Namor doesn't just punch out Ben. He takes hits until he finds a way to turn the environment against the Thing. I mean, it drives me nuts when people say strength is the only determining factor in a fight. Tactics, terrain, resourcefulness. The Thing has been swatted around by characters who can only lift less than 2/3'ds of what he can because they're faster, or use better tactics or both. I'm trying to find where I said strength was the only determining factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by Kristopher It's not real-world realism I'm looking for, just "within-setting realism." Given that there are beings with fantastic superhuman abilties, logically expand from there. If a character has saved the city scores of times, the city should not instantly demand his head the first time a shapeshifter "puts on his face" and robs a freakin bank. I want consistency. If a character can lift a battleship in issue 9, he should be able to easily lift a bus in issue 17. If A and B are a match in a fight, and B and C are a match in a fight, then (barring some logical reason) A and C should be a match in a fight -- C should not take A out in three moves or less. Well, on strength, you could either go with a fixed weight and only a fixed weight or a table like this: Strength roll 70% of normal max = str. roll +3 80% of normal max = str. roll +2 90% of normal max = str. roll +1 100% of normal max = str. roll 110% of normal max = str. roll -2 120% of normal max = str. roll -4 130% of normal max = str. roll -6 etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 That's kinda neat Agent X. I like that. Kinda feels like the ol' "optimal conditions" caveat Marvel had in its OHTTMU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.