Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Hey, I am strugglling with something. I would build Spider Man's Web-Shooters as an OIF Focus in a Multipower Framework with a set amount of web fluid. Here is the problem, some of Spider Man's Multipower Slots would use up more of the web fluid than others. When he makes a huge barrier of webbing that uses up more web fluid than, say, simply swinging from building to building. Fueled charges won't work because they are tied to time and not volume. My ideas so far: Option I: Multipower has Charges +1 250 charges example slot A: swinging uses 1 charge like a normal slot. example slot B: web wall uses 5 charges: -1/2? limitation costs 4 more charges. Option II: Multipower has an endurance reserve. Some powers cost more endurance than others. Endurance Reserve is bought as a continuous charge with however many clips you decide Spider Man would have on him. I sort of think this is a rules quandary as well - something the charge limitation doesn't seem to anticipate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Of the options you present, I think that END Reserve gives you the flexibility you're looking for. The real trick is defining how Spidey reloads his web fluid reserve. My suggestion would be to buy the END Reserve as normal for the web shooters, but buy the Recovery for it with Charges to represent reloading it with replacement cartridges. I can think of three ways to construct those Charges, depending on how you see the reloading process proceeding. One, make each Charge a large enough Recovery to completely reload the web shooter - simplest but probably most expensive; two, make each charge Continuing, large enough and lasting long enough to completely refill the web shooter, and say that this represents the time that Spider-Man has to take to replace the fluid cartridges; three, assume that the web shooters hold multiple cartridges, and each cartridge represents one Charge of the appropriate Recovery, so that when you've used all the Charges that the shooter can hold at once, the END Reserve has recovered completely. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Spidey's web shooters only really run out of juice when it's appropriate for the story- I fought 60 thugs this week guess I better reload since I've got the time (No real game effect) or Doc Oc is sending wave after wave of flunky in order to run me out of web fluid (Plot driven game effect) It seems more like a John Woo reload situation than actual charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 I agree with jtelson on this one. If you want a game mechanic to represent Spidey running out of webs after using up a lot of fluid, I'd probably just tack a Burnout roll onto some of the most fluid-intensive attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 As I answered on the "5E Questions" forum, there's a question in the Rules FAQ that deals with this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Blowtorch, from CKC, is a character example who takes an additional Limitations for each slot of his Multipower using more than 1 charge (page 192). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 I would never allow end reserves on charges in any form. It's just way too abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nHammer Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Re: Spider-Man's Web Shooters and the Charges Problem Originally posted by Agent X Hey, I am strugglling with something. I would build Spider Man's Web-Shooters as an OIF Focus in a Multipower Framework with a set amount of web fluid. Here is the problem, some of Spider Man's Multipower Slots would use up more of the web fluid than others. When he makes a huge barrier of webbing that uses up more web fluid than, say, simply swinging from building to building. Fueled charges won't work because they are tied to time and not volume. I sort of think this is a rules quandary as well - something the charge limitation doesn't seem to anticipate. I think Spidey's web shooters are IIF. His costume covers his shooters, they can't be seen. A person that sees him in action doesn't know that they are there, or if the webs coming directly from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by jtelson Spidey's web shooters only really run out of juice when it's appropriate for the story- I fought 60 thugs this week guess I better reload since I've got the time (No real game effect) or Doc Oc is sending wave after wave of flunky in order to run me out of web fluid (Plot driven game effect) It seems more like a John Woo reload situation than actual charges. I think you are missing the point. This question was meant to be larger than merely an interpretation of Spider Man's web shooters. However, I don't pay much attention to the way Marvel slaughters character concepts these days but, for a very long time in Spidey's comics run, he would occasionally run out of web fluid during a long fight. They may not do this anymore but they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden My suggestion would be to buy the END Reserve as normal for the web shooters, but buy the Recovery for it with Charges to represent reloading it with replacement cartridges. I also think this is the best way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 This is the from the Rules FAQ: If a character has a Multipower with Charges for the entire Multipower, how can he have a slot that requires more than 1 Charge per use? How much of a Limitation would that be? A: Use the following table: Limitation Value Number Of Charges Used -1/4 2 per use -1/2 3-7 per use -3/4 8-12 per use -1 13-17 per use ... and so on This chart assumes the character has a fairly high number of Charges — 65 or more — for his Multipower. For each step up the Charges Table, add an additional -1/4 Limitation value (though a slot can never require more Charges than the entire Multipower has at full strength). Thus, for a Multipower that has 16 Charges for the entire Multipower, a slot that costs 4 Charges per use gets a -1 1/4 Limitation. Write this Limitation as Requires # Charges Per Use. Guess I am going to have to check the Rules FAQ before I post questions. Looks like one of the two options I thought of was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrm Ouroboros Posted June 15, 2003 Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 I daresay I agree with the above 'END Reserve, Reserve's REC on charges.' Say he has a 200-point END reserve for the webshooters... END Reserve (200 END) (20 Active Points); IIF (-¼) 16 points, PLUS END Reserve REC (40 REC) (40 Active Points); IAF (REC Capsules Kept On Belt) (-½), Charges (1 Charge Continuing for a Full Turn, 4 Clips, -¾): 17 Points Total: 33 points. Yeah, maybe it's a little klunky, but it gives what you're looking for -- a 'recharge capsule' that reloads the webshooter but takes a few seconds to do it. There might be some sort of penalty for having the REC of the END Reserve separate from the reserve itself, but WTF... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdbase Posted June 15, 2003 Report Share Posted June 15, 2003 I've always thought of his web shooters as "Jammed" on an 18, for no limitation. He never seems to really know that they are out before trying to use them, and it doesn't happen often. Clearing the "Jam" is swapping out web fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted June 16, 2003 Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 As Steve mentioned, he answered how to do it in the Rules FAQ. As for Spidey's web shooters - I have been a long time Spidey fan and once had (or maybe still have) a book on all of his gadgets. This was written circa 1980 by Marvel so you will have to excuse any 'discrepencies' nowadays. Technically, the web shooters would be OIF as they are just part of his 'costume'. The web shooters do jam on occasion but he usually 'runs out' of web fluid without knowing it - sort of the way someone doesn't always count his shots with a gun. According to the book, each web shooter has 12 charges on it, with additional charges on his belt. Each charge can be expanded one of three ways, either as a large, wet, goopy mass (with which he often adheres his bundle of clothing to the wall with), as a thick swing line or as a lighter, feathered web that covers an area. Each charge uses up the entire amount of webbing, it is just sort of the amount of 'air' that is added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by MarkusDark As Steve mentioned, he answered how to do it in the Rules FAQ. As for Spidey's web shooters - I have been a long time Spidey fan and once had (or maybe still have) a book on all of his gadgets. This was written circa 1980 by Marvel so you will have to excuse any 'discrepencies' nowadays. Technically, the web shooters would be OIF as they are just part of his 'costume'. The web shooters do jam on occasion but he usually 'runs out' of web fluid without knowing it - sort of the way someone doesn't always count his shots with a gun. According to the book, each web shooter has 12 charges on it, with additional charges on his belt. Each charge can be expanded one of three ways, either as a large, wet, goopy mass (with which he often adheres his bundle of clothing to the wall with), as a thick swing line or as a lighter, feathered web that covers an area. Each charge uses up the entire amount of webbing, it is just sort of the amount of 'air' that is added to it. That is a disturbing thing for them to say. It doesn't completely jive with what I had seen in the Comics of the time. Of course, it is hard to believe the Wingless Wizard's Anti-Gravity Discs are powered by a single AA battery too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 We don't even really need to do this with a limit on the webshooters themselves. If we are talking old school Spidey, it can be argued that he has a couple dice of Unluck. (The Green Goblin always showed up when he was aleady late for dinner with Aunt May, and the chocolates he bought for Gwen for Valenties melted when he webbed the box near a heat duct before fighting the loon of the week). I noticed that his Web Shooters would always run out at really inoppertune times. You could just say that when the GM feels evil he can roll unluck to see if he ran out of web fluid at just the wrong time (again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Originally posted by Jhamin We don't even really need to do this with a limit on the webshooters themselves. If we are talking old school Spidey, it can be argued that he has a couple dice of Unluck. (The Green Goblin always showed up when he was aleady late for dinner with Aunt May, and the chocolates he bought for Gwen for Valenties melted when he webbed the box near a heat duct before fighting the loon of the week). I noticed that his Web Shooters would always run out at really inoppertune times. You could just say that when the GM feels evil he can roll unluck to see if he ran out of web fluid at just the wrong time (again) That's cool. I still like the idea of using charges though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Couldn't you just use Boostable Charages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted June 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Originally posted by Shadowpup Couldn't you just use Boostable Charages? That would be more work than what Steve Long came up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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