How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

[Hyper-Man]

Hi all,

 

You've seen this in comics all the time...

 

Superman is exposed to Red Solar/Kryptonite radiation.

Flash has the Speed Force taken away.

The Mutants in X-3 lose their abilities when exposed to the 'serum'.

 

Not all HERO characters are built with this in mind so how do you implement it. Say Flash in your game has a 35 DEX and Batman has a 30. They end up in a trap that suppresses all Super-Powers. Batman is obviously unaffected. Flash obviously loses everything listed as Powers on the HERO character sheet but what about his SPD and DEX.

 

Assuming they weren't bought with some type of limitation how do you decide how much he loses?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

If it's done as a handwave effect, just handwave it.

 

If it's bought as a drain/suppress/etc. add the advantage "all of X special effect simultaneously" flow from there. Super Characteristics are superpowers too. It's probably a good idea before this happens to have a "depowered" sheet of the character available if you can, or at least a general idea of what they'd be at.

 

If the PC has things bought with a limit (like "not under red sun" for Superman) easy enough - remove stuff bought with the limit, whatever's left is what they have.

[OddHat]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Arbitrarily by build and back story. Wally West was a fit enough kid, and has spent years constantly pushing himself even with his powers. I'd drop him down into the highly trained athlete level, DEX around 15-18, SPD 3-4. Supergirl, most versions, was a healthy enough girl who never carried all that much muscle mass or pushed herself all that hard in her adventures. Maybe she drops to a STR 13-15 (still strong for a girl her size), but you could make a case for 10. Superman is big and buff, and has been pushing his powers forever. He has also had a heck of a lot of fights with guys in his strength range and higher, and been shown receing various types of HtH training (learned to box form Mohamed Ali). Give him a STR 18-20, and let him keep any HtH levels or MA.

[David Johnston]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Hi all,

 

You've seen this in comics all the time...

 

Superman is exposed to Red Solar/Kryptonite radiation.

Flash has the Speed Force taken away.

The Mutants in X-3 lose their abilities when exposed to the 'serum'.

 

Not all HERO characters are built with this in mind so how do you implement it. Say Flash in your game has a 35 DEX and Batman has a 30. They end up in a trap that suppresses all Super-Powers. Batman is obviously unaffected.?

 

Not in my game ace. If Batman didn't want to be affected by "super power suppression fields" he should have either got normal characterisitic maxima or kept his stats under them. There's a reason to get skill levels instead of just cranking your Dex up and that's it.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Not in my game ace. If Batman didn't want to be affected by "super power suppression fields" he should have either got normal characterisitic maxima or kept his stats under them. There's a reason to get skill levels instead of just cranking your Dex up and that's it.

 

Thats pretty much how our old campaign worked, and EXACTLY the way I built my main character, a pretty classic Bats-style Martial Artist/Gadgetter started at street level and jumped up to lead a superteam after a ton of experience (he was the only experienced character we used when starting up a new campaign).

[CBikle]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

I'd probably rule that any "super stats" would reduce to the characteristic max.

 

Just seems like the fairest way to do something like that.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Not in my game ace. If Batman didn't want to be affected by "super power suppression fields" he should have either got normal characterisitic maxima or kept his stats under them. There's a reason to get skill levels instead of just cranking your Dex up and that's it.

 

What do you mean by NCM in this situation?

 

Batman should have paid x2 cost for any characteristics between 21-30?

 

That seems a bit drastic.

 

The way I understand it, 'normals' in a supers world can have physical stats up to 30 without being considered 'super'. Anything over 20 is definitely extraordinary but is not necessarily super until over 30.

 

It's not that different than talking about powered armor types like Iron-Man who might have a 15-18 DEX but gets a boost via the armor putting it in the 21-30 range.

 

Should even the non-limited characters (focus, oihid, does not work in X situation, etx..) be required to have 2 writeups like Oddhat suggests?

[CBikle]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Hi all,

 

Say Flash in your game has a 35 DEX and Batman has a 30. They end up in a trap that suppresses all Super-Powers. Batman is obviously unaffected.

 

Tough call, but I'd also rule that Batman is unaffected.

 

Personally I'm not a fan of the "super-power drain trap". I know it happens in the comics, but it'll just annoy players and wide-scale adjustment powers just overly complicate the game anyways.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Not in my game ace. If Batman didn't want to be affected by "super power suppression fields" he should have either got normal characterisitic maxima or kept his stats under them. There's a reason to get skill levels instead of just cranking your Dex up and that's it.

 

Well according to the HERO benchmarks a 30 stat is not nessarily superhuman. It's just really really quick.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Please let this not devolve into the age-old "What constitutes a superhuman?" debate...

 

Regardless of what Normal Characteristic Maxima is set at, different campaigns will have different benchmarks for what level represents "superhuman." (For example, even Champions Universe itself does not consider the presence of any stats above 20 automatically "superhuman.")

 

So I'd say the suppression field should either drop any Characteristics above "superhuman" level down to the top of "not-superhuman" (this would probably be the "fairest" method from a game-balance standpoint) or drop them down to the level they would logically be for that individual character if they lacked their superpowers, such as dropping Superman's STR to 10 or 13, or dropping The Flash's DEX to the mid-teens (this would probably be the most "realistic" method in the context of the game-world). Characters like Batman would presumably be unaffected, because his STR, DEX, SPD, etc. presumably fall within that campaign's "not-superhuman" range (no matter what that range may be in that campaign).

[David Johnston]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

It's not that different than talking about powered armor types like Iron-Man who might have a 15-18 DEX but gets a boost via the armor putting it in the 21-30 range.

 

I usually hate it when people do that. Why would Iron Man have a higher DEX in his armour? How does it increase the speed with which he thinks, the precision with which he estimates distances, his sense of balance and his tactile sensitivity?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

I usually hate it when people do that. Why would Iron Man have a higher DEX in his armour? How does it increase the speed with which he thinks' date=' the precision with which he estimates distances, his sense of balance and his tactile sensitivity?[/quote']

 

Iron-Man might not be the best example but I have seen plenty of armored characters that get DEX and/or SPD boosts due to cybernetic/HUD display and other various combat oriented enhancements.

 

It's an infrequently used but still valid sfx.

[The Souljourner]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

I usually hate it when people do that. Why would Iron Man have a higher DEX in his armour? How does it increase the speed with which he thinks' date=' the precision with which he estimates distances, his sense of balance and his tactile sensitivity?[/quote']

 

How? Computers, my friend. Computers. Estimating distance? Do you really think Ironman doesn't have a HUD that shows exactly how far it is to the guy he's aiming at? You think there aren't gyro stabilizers in there? He probably has radar analyzing incoming objects and nudging the suit in the right direction to dodge them.

 

Modern computers can do pretty much all that and more..... and this is a comic book computer, I'm sure it could do even more.

 

-Nate

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Regardless of what constitutes superhuman or normal, the real issue here as I see it is how was the Drain/Suppression defined? If a player came to me with a "superpower" draining ray, I would make him tell me how it was supposed to work, because that is way too vague.

 

If the Drain is a time constriction field that slows the reflexes, then both SuperSpeedGuy and DarkKnightGadgetGuy are affected. If the Drain siphons off molecular vibration energy, then SuperSpeedGuy is going to get slammed hard, but DarkKnightGadgetGuy is unaffected.

 

As for how badly SuperSpeedGuy will be affected (that is, will he drop to 20 DEX or 10 DEX), that depends on how the character of SuperSpeedGuy is defined. Was he a highly trained athlete who was given super powers by a dying alien or was he a bookworm geek who was subjected to a radiation accident? The background will give you a reasonable idea of how much DEX he is going to lose.

 

____________________________________________________________

"Trumpy, you can do magic things!"

"Its called evil kid." - MST does "Pod People"

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Let's change the question slightly.

 

Instead of calling it a Super-Power Suppression Field let's say that some omni-being like Q, Mxyzptlk or The Impossible Man is just snapping their fingers to accomplish the same effect. Call it a Major Transform AOE Megascale. All native-power supers are now non-supers (Green Lantern and Iron-Man are unaffected).

 

I am looking at this issue from a GM's perspective. Points spent on this ability are irrelevent since it's just a plot device. I'm looking at how to affect characters fairly based on sfx/origin that is not always clearly defined by their points spent.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Let's change the question slightly.

 

Instead of calling it a Super-Power Suppression Field let's say that some omni-being like Q, Mxyzptlk or The Impossible Man is just snapping their fingers to accomplish the same effect. Call it a Major Transform AOE Megascale. All native-power supers are now non-supers (Green Lantern and Iron-Man are unaffected).

 

I am looking at this issue from a GM's perspective. Points spent on this ability are irrelevent since it's just a plot device. I'm looking at how to affect characters fairly based on sfx/origin that is not always clearly defined by their points spent.

 

Well, heck, if this is just a plot device, do whatever you want. Put everyone at all base 10 CHA. Or 20 CHA. Or 5 CHA. Or not.

 

Now the question is, what is it you want your players to accomplish once they are enfeebled? What abilities do they need to retain to escape their predicament? Are they going to need a modicum of combat prowess to beat off some low-level thugs, or will this be entirely a mental exercise? Instead of calling it a super-power draining ray, call it a cosmic crippling ray and strip them of whatever powers you want/need to get rid of and leave them with the rest of their abilities so they don't feel completely emasculated.

 

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The only two infinite things are the universe and stupidity. And I am not altogether certain about the universe. - Albert Einstien

[gojira]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Tough call, but I'd also rule that Batman is unaffected.

 

Personally I'm not a fan of the "super-power drain trap". I know it happens in the comics, but it'll just annoy players and wide-scale adjustment powers just overly complicate the game anyways.

 

Quite correct. It's well known that a super-power suppression-field can only be constructed with the aid of a very rare mineral, Plotdevicium. Access by both players and villain should be strictly limited by the GM.

 

EDIT: Plotdevicium, not Potdevicium. Gah, my proofreading is atrocious.

[Dino]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Iron-Man might not be the best example but I have seen plenty of armored characters that get DEX and/or SPD boosts due to cybernetic/HUD display and other various combat oriented enhancements.

 

It's an infrequently used but still valid sfx.

 

That is exactly Iron Man's speed rationale in the comics.

[Dino]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Back on topic:

 

Characters like The Flash should, in my opinion, be written up with thier super characteristics bought in the powers column. After all, The Flash's DEX is as much a "Power" as his extra inches of running. In fact most characters in comics who have superhuman characteristics have a clear distinction between thier real characteristics and thier power-derived ones, even if they never lose thier powers in the story.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Dropping straight to the bottom of the thread ...

 

If a character's super-characteristics are a result of his super-powers (rather than comic-book-physics level of training), then he should obviously lose his characteristics. I've recently taken to putting 'power-based characteristics' in a list under Powers in Hero Designer, just for such a contingency (even though I rarely use power inhibitors).

[CBikle]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Quite correct. It's well known that a super-power supression-field can only be constructed with the aid of a very rare mineral' date=' Potdevicium. Access by both players and villain should be strictly limited by the GM.[/quote']

 

Right, I kind of figured that was the case, but things like the "Draino-Ray Projector" are the kinds of deals I stat out. As a GM and player, I don't care for plot devices that have huge, sweeping effects like that I prefer to go for a more subtle route.

[Thrakazog]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Is the device scientific? Would if affect someone like Dr. Strange?

[CBikle]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

With the "Draino-Ray", you have to also take into account high stats (and powers) that are a result of non-superpower based origins like being a robot or E.T. or E.T. robot.

 

Would the Martian Manhunter lose his high strength from a ray designed to take away powers from Earthlings ?

[CBikle]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Is the device scientific? Would if affect someone like Dr. Strange?

 

Or better yet the Juggernaut, whose strength is magically-augmented.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: How should a Super-Power Suppression Field affect characteristics?

 

Please let this not devolve into the age-old "What constitutes a superhuman?" debate...

 

Ah your ruining my threadjack.

 

Ah well.