WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

[wylodmayer]

What would your character do?

 

You have just discovered that another hero in your group holds some political views that would be considered "extreme" these days. Now, some provisos for forming your answers -

 

1) I am not talking about being like extremely right or left. I am talking about holding views that few, if any, in the West seem to seriously hold these days. Such as believing in the divine right of kings, or that the government has a right to dispose of its own citizens as it sees fit - including execution for "the good of the state", or that a government really should be based on one religious tradition and competing traditions should be outlawed. In other words, ideas that seem to run against the notions of freedom and fairness that we take for granted in a modern democracy.

 

2) The character is very clear that he or she will abide by the laws of your campaign city's country, and respect it's customs. Just because *he thinks* that the rich *should be* allowed to kill poor people who get in their way (like, say, in Feudal Japan), he understands that it's illegal *here* and that anyone who does so is a criminal who needs to be apprehended and locked up... because he's a hero, and heroes lock up criminals.

 

3) He acts like a hero. Rescues people, etc. He just seems to hold different "core ideas."

 

How do you respond to this character and his role as a hero?

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

The Real Me:

divine right of kings

I've known a few very nice people who believed this.

the government has a right to dispose of its own citizens as it sees fit - including execution for "the good of the state", or that a government really should be based on one religious tradition and competing traditions should be outlawed.

I have family members who believe each of these.

*he thinks* that the rich *should be* allowed to kill poor people who get in their way (like, say, in Feudal Japan), he understands that it's illegal *here* and that anyone who does so is a criminal who needs to be apprehended and locked up

I have family members who believe this. They really are otherwise very good people.

 

I think all of my characters would just work with the other guy normally, and try not to let political conversations get too heated. If you refuse to work with crazy people, you have no business running around in your speedo and tights.

[Hermit]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Given the prevelance of Pagan Gods made manifest, Aliens from other planets, and other 'outsiders' of various sorts in super teams; I almost would be surprised at ones that DIDN'T have any non mainstream Political views

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Given the prevelance of Pagan Gods made manifest' date=' Aliens from other planets, and other 'outsiders' of various sorts in super teams; I almost would be surprised at ones that DIDN'T have any non mainstream Political views [/quote']

 

Divine Right of Kings means something very different if you're the Divine that gave his ancestor the Right in the first place.

[Hermit]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

"I'm Horus Ra, what the #$#$ is this 'election' you speak of?"

 

[David Johnston]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Tien Lung was an alien from a society where actions were only ever taken individually or by unanimous consensus and not very interested in alien politics. Hellfire was politically apathetic, much more interested in religion than she was in any kind of temporal politics. Riptide would have just regarded it as a potential PR problem and asked his team-mate to try not to freak the mundanes.

[st barbara]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

He can have all the unusual political views he likes, as long as he doesn't try to actually DO anything that is against the law of the land OR try to harm any innocents. He does that then he is a criminal and "St Barbara" will treat him as such !

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Most of mine would respond the same way; try to avoid politics in conversation (and get involved in heated debates when it comes up), work with them as best they can, and keep a muzzle handy for when talking to the press. As long as they're not trying to enforce that idea on the world....

 

Professor Jurnix, on the other hand (a Prof. X clone I've dealt with in a previous campaign) would probably mind wipe the guy and re-write him in a more acceptable mode. Easier, fewer problems, don't need to run the chance of him running his mouth and starting a riot....

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

I don't think that'd happen in our group anyway. For one thing, every player in our group is politically conservative IRL, so none of us have political ideas that are too far out from the other players (although we do have real differences). And so we don't build characters who would be too outré for our personal tastes; much less rattle the other players.

 

Zl'f probably comes the closest among our PCs. Politically she's a eurosocialist (though not a Communist) who is quite happy living in Scandinavia with its massively expensive social "safety net." But she's also practical enough to understand that affording that safety net for all citizens means allowing entrepreneurs and businesses to succeed and grow. No national wealth, no safety net. (She's no doubt been corrupted by working for a billionaire American philanthropist who gives tens of millions of dollars a year to charity.).

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

I don't think that'd happen in our group anyway. For one thing' date=' [i']every[/i] player in our group is politically conservative IRL, so none of us have political ideas that are too far out from the other players (although we do have real differences). And so we don't build characters who would be too outré for our personal tastes; much less rattle the other players.

 

That might make for an interesting poll. "Do you play characters with significantly different political or religious views from your own?"

 

Unfortunately, it would very likely turn into a massive flame war.

 

Thinking about it, none of my characters share my religious beliefs; Comic Book cosmology is too obviously different from the real world.

[David Blue]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

That might make for an interesting poll. "Do you play characters with significantly different political or religious views from your own?"

 

Unfortunately, it would very likely turn into a massive flame war.

Yup. Not worth it.

 

Anyway, in answer to the present "what would your character do?" - it would depend how the other character's out-there views bounced of my character's quite likely equally out-there views.

 

For example, Gladiatrix had views on the legitimacy of violence in sport and entertainment that would turn your hair white. As a purpose bred gladiator (and a credit to her creators) she could hardly have been expected to think anything else. She just never ran into anybody who objected to that.

 

It was a bit like Grosse Pointe Blank (1997) - whenever Martin Blank would reveal that he was a professional killer, it would go like this:

 

Mr. Newberry: What have you been doing with your life?

Marty: Uh... professional killer.

Mr. Newberry: Oh! Good for you, it's a... growth industry.

 

Thinking about it' date=' none of my characters share my religious beliefs; Comic Book cosmology is too obviously different from the real world.[/quote']It's amazing to me that the Norse, Roman and Greek gods aren't doing better in the main comic book universes than they seem to be.

 

No hero seems to be impressed by the fact that these gods are demonstrably for real. I would be!

 

 

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

That might make for an interesting poll. "Do you play characters with significantly different political or religious views from your own?"

I do.

 

Zl'f is a devout Russian Orthodox church member and socialist.

 

My Pulp Hero character, Master Kwan, is a Shoalin Buddhist monk with Total CvK and who won't eat meat.

 

I'm an agnostic conservative who who strongly supports the Second Amendment.

 

Either of these characters would have very different political and/or religious views than I. For me, that's part of the fun of role-playing. (Zl'f is pretty much my complete opposite in every way. She's also outgoing, competitive, spontaneous, a heroine, athletic, and a decent human being. I am none of the above.)

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Either of these characters would have very different political and/or religious views than I. For me, that's part of the fun of role-playing. (Zl'f is pretty much my complete opposite in every way. She's also outgoing, competitive, spontaneous, a heroine, athletic, and a decent human being. I am none of the above.)

 

Based on your posts over the years, despite the aspects of personality that don't come through in written communication, don't sell yourself short on the decent human being part.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Does anyone remember a character from the old Allies book called The Aryan? I've thought once or twice of making a new version of him as a flying brick (think Master Man with some brains) -- a decent, heroic, honorable man who is nonetheless convinced that 'Nazism could work with the right people'.

 

(I'd have to put some thought into why he doesn't hate Jews, but that's part of the fun of inventing these weird characters.)

[Sundog]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Terminus wouldn't have any problem working with people with weird political ideas. Heck, he has a few screwy ones himself (little things like "national soverieignty is less important than individual happiness", things like that). As long as the guy acts like a hero, he gets treated as a hero.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

That might make for an interesting poll. "Do you play characters with significantly different political or religious views from your own?"

 

I've considered doing that more than once, but was afraid it might turn into an NGD-level political screamfest ... er, debate.

 

Anyways ... to use my most recent characters ...

Quantum Kitsune would be making a variety of comments, doing the 'twirl the finger by the temple' move (that indicates someone's a little cuckoo) behind his back, and generally acting like a self-important know it all. You know, a teenager.

 

Beowulf's Human Half would merely give him a deadpan stare. He's kinda ... emotionally constipated.

[Dreadnought]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

It's amazing to me that the Norse, Roman and Greek gods aren't doing better in the main comic book universes than they seem to be.

 

No hero seems to be impressed by the fact that these gods are demonstrably for real. I would be!

 

 

 

You should check out the Ultimates. In Volume 1, Banner gets pissed at Thor and goes into a rant about how Thor had a psychotic break when he was younger, and he just thinks he's Thor reborn. Banner claims that his powers come from something else entirely, I think it's being a mutant. Also, Defender doesn't believe in magic, despite the fact that he works with Witchcraft.

 

As for the question, it depends what the view is. If it wasn't something that could conceivably interfere with the character's hero work, then Dreadnought would let it go. If he thought it could go against the team's interests, he'd have a private chat with the other character. Of course, given the other characters in the party, that chat would probably accomplish nothing.

[Lucius]

WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

 

It was a bit like Grosse Pointe Blank (1997) - whenever Martin Blank would reveal that he was a professional killer, it would go like this:

 

Mr. Newberry: What have you been doing with your life?

Marty: Uh... professional killer.

Mr. Newberry: Oh! Good for you, it's a... growth industry.

 

:

 

 

I saw that movie. Mr. Newberry was the only one who actually believed it and took it seriously, and he wasn't phased by it. Everyone else thought he was joking.

 

I'd say the kind of views given as examples go beyond "questionable." The answer depends on the specifics, and on which of my characters I'm talking about, but by and large I'm with that guy who said "if he acts like a hero, he gets treated like a hero."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary adds the caveat "But maybe with just a little more wariness."

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Does anyone remember a character from the old Allies book called The Aryan? I've thought once or twice of making a new version of him as a flying brick (think Master Man with some brains) -- a decent, heroic, honorable man who is nonetheless convinced that 'Nazism could work with the right people'.

 

(I'd have to put some thought into why he doesn't hate Jews, but that's part of the fun of inventing these weird characters.)

He could strip it down to the arguably defensible portions - the Aryan People, by right of being inherently superior, have a responsibility to defend and lead the untermensch. Toss that in with the economic decisions (free of slave labor and such) that took Germany from being an economic disaster to being one of the world's biggest economic superpowers, and a belief that Hitler's mistake was believing that they needed to eradicate them; he follows a "pure" version of the philosophy that doesn't adhere to that sort of nonsense.

 

Just a thought.

 

And I do remember the Aryan. I actually worked him into the background material of a campaign I ran once - he'd been largely ostracised/distrusted by the superhero community (as described in his writeup), and they treated him as much like a threat as a potential ally. He ended up biting the big one in a fight with that world's equivalent of Takofanes, protecting a hero who was working the spell that would send him packing, made a few folks reconsider what it took to be a hero, and whether or not being politically correct was on the list.

[Haerandir]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

I saw that movie. Mr. Newberry was the only one who actually believed it and took it seriously' date=' and he wasn't phased by it. Everyone else thought he was joking. [/quote']

 

I used to believe that, too, about Mr. Newberry. My reasoning was that, as the someone who deals with the sort of people Martin works for, he'd be more inclined to take him seriously. However, upon a sixth or seventh viewing, I came to the conclusion that he's as clueless as everyone else. He's completely floored that anyone would order a hit over such a minor issue as the one in question, for instance, so it seems unlikely that he's familiar with Martin's world, after all. Further, he doesn't seem to have altered his mental image of Martin as an irresponsible teenager until he actually sees him in action. So, it seems probable that, like everyone else, he assumes that Martin's answer is evasive and/or frivolous, and is just playing along. Which is a shame, as I really liked the notion that he was in the know.

 

Still, it can be argued that he does believe Martin, and his later confusion is caused by the fact that Martin's current contract really is over something too petty to warrant an assassination. The available evidence doesn't really support or refute either interpretation.

 

All of which, like so many of my posts, is apropos of nothing.

 

In answer to the original question, I don't think any character I've ever played would worry too much about a teammates oddball beliefs, as long as it stayed in the theoretical realm you've described. A few of them (Empyrean, Wind Dragon & Renaissance Man all spring to mind) would almost certainly watch such a character closely for signs that they would act on their beliefs, but that's as far as they'd go. Well, Renaissance Man might go so far as to research some Batman-style protocols, just in case. He is ex-CIA, after all.

[Funksaw]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

What would your character do?

 

You have just discovered that another hero in your group holds some political views that would be considered "extreme" these days. Now, some provisos for forming your answers -

 

1) I am not talking about being like extremely right or left. I am talking about holding views that few, if any, in the West seem to seriously hold these days. Such as believing in the divine right of kings, or that the government has a right to dispose of its own citizens as it sees fit - including execution for "the good of the state", or that a government really should be based on one religious tradition and competing traditions should be outlawed. In other words, ideas that seem to run against the notions of freedom and fairness that we take for granted in a modern democracy.

 

2) The character is very clear that he or she will abide by the laws of your campaign city's country, and respect it's customs. Just because *he thinks* that the rich *should be* allowed to kill poor people who get in their way (like, say, in Feudal Japan), he understands that it's illegal *here* and that anyone who does so is a criminal who needs to be apprehended and locked up... because he's a hero, and heroes lock up criminals.

 

3) He acts like a hero. Rescues people, etc. He just seems to hold different "core ideas."

 

How do you respond to this character and his role as a hero?

 

Those views aren't considered extreme in the West anymore.

 

-- Brian.

[Zed-F]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Soulbarb would live and let live, with perhaps a snide comment or two. She's not exceptionally interested in politics anyway. (Well, there was that one guy who decided it was ok to go out, find people who refused to vote in a local election, and shoot them with a sniper rifle, but he got what was coming to him.)

 

Sylph would have no idea how to react. She'd probably stand there flabbergasted, and the moment would pass with nothing more than a faint nervous laugh.

 

Cerulean is an extradimensional sorceror whose native dimension is run by a meritocracy where those with the most magical potential are bred to rule by their mentors. Cerulean is already the ruler of his homeworld and is being groomed to be his dimension's sorceror supreme. Accordingly, he has a very different idea of how government should be conducted than most residents of the USA.

[David Blue]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Does anyone remember a character from the old Allies book called The Aryan? I've thought once or twice of making a new version of him as a flying brick (think Master Man with some brains) -- a decent, heroic, honorable man who is nonetheless convinced that 'Nazism could work with the right people'.

 

(I'd have to put some thought into why he doesn't hate Jews, but that's part of the fun of inventing these weird characters.)

Off-topic, but that's an easy one.

 

Hitler's views on Jews were inconsistent, except for being consistently malign. He thought the races should be slugging each out with each other to produce a perpetual genetic superbowl champion, which would of course benefit Aryans, who were the best; and he also blamed the Jews for being the ones who always got the other races fighting. (It's the Mel Gibson theory of how all wars begin.) Which, surely, is what they were supposed to be doing? And what Hitler was eagerly doing himself? But anyway: always blame the Jews! It's all their fault! Blame! Hate! Punish! Kill! Graagh!!

 

(Ahem...)

 

Just let the Aryan be a little more logical: "yes it's in the nature of the Jews to start fights, and as a born winner that's fine by me. Oh, Doctor Goldberg, what marvellous device do you have for us today?" The Aryan would assume whenever a Jewish scientist invented something amazing that we were going to wind up fighting over it - and in a comic book world, how often would he be wrong?

[David Johnston]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Not an entirely accurate depiction of Hitler views. What he hated about Jews was the way (as he saw it) that they sneakily sabotaged the "Aryans", defeating their superior strength with the treachery of pretending to be Germans when they "really" weren't. That mean, that not united and homogenous, Germany could lose. As a totalitarian he believed that any different thoughts weakened the nation, and a Jew couldn't help but think in a different way from an "Aryan".

 

So what about the Aryan? Well, he doesn't give a damn. His power, his "superiority" isn't collective in nature. He's too much of an egotist to regard "treachery" as a threat because he isn't relying on others in the first place, but just on his own power. Although he doesn't realise it, as an individual living by his own rules, he is pretty much what Nietzche thought of as a superman but he's the exact opposite of Hitler's ideal man.

[Trebuchet]

Re: WWYCD: Hero with "Questionable" Political Views

 

Hitler and the Nazis viewed Jews as literally a disease; a contaminant within the "body Aryan." All of the Nazi's theories were based on race theory (or "nation" in the ethnic sense) just as the communists' were based on class theory. He viewed Aryans (Germans, Danes, Scandinavians) as inherently superior; and Slavs, blacks, and Jews as literally sub-human. Other races fell somewhere in the middle. Jews he viewed as especially sneaky because they intermarried with Germans and thus mixed their blood with that of "pure" Aryans; and he believed their blood ruined any offspring.

 

I should note that Hitler's views on German racial purity were hardly new; similar views were expressed by German leaders and educators well before World War One. Hitler was just the ultimate expression of race hatred. He was the symptom; not the illness itself.