DC Assault

[FTJoshua]

In my last post, I asked for help designing or finding tanks and related military weapons used to go after some high-powered PC's. The PC's survived the attack, and have now determined to "take over the country" by marching right into the Congress and announcing their intentions. They seem to think that since they are (they believe) among the most powerful beings on the planet, there is nothing that can stop them.

 

Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't; here's my question: What is the liklihood of success? These are 9 or so PC's from 300 pts to more than 700 pts. But I figure the U.S. Gov't is would stop at nothing to get rid of them once their intentions are clear, even if what they are proposing would ultimately help the world.

 

So what kind of defenses/offenses would be brought to bear in this scenario? Assume there is nothing more high tech than what we publicly know the military has, or might have. Or, do you think they would succeed?

 

Thanks! All opinions welcome & needed!

[Vondy]

First -- in a world with super beings the government probably has a few on the payroll. If they don't, they probably have access to a number of super beings they feel can be trusted to varying degrees if the need arised.

 

Second -- what do the other super beings in the courty think. Some of them might feel a need to step forward and deal with these "lunatics" right off the bat. If I were a powerful super and some group of heroes decided to overthrow the government you'd find me knocking on the White House door. "Mr. President, what do you want me to do?"

 

Third -- it is entirely likely the government has dossiers on these characters with an idea of their abilities. They may even have selected specific weapons or techniques for dealing with them. In addition, the government has contingency plans for all sorts of whacky things. "Supers take over the capitol" is probably one of them.

 

Fourth -- with those stated intentions and the unlikely prospect of bringing the characters to justice the government will likely elect to terminate the threat as quickly and decisively as possible.

 

Fifth -- the government has some extremely effective weapons, both conventional and otherwise. Most supers couldn't take on a division of infantry (dear lord: consider the amount of anti-tank weaponry and helicoptor support such a division has, let alone guns and grenades. if they wanted to, let alone a combat wing of jet fighters, a battalion of tanks, or a full on cruise missile strike from the navy [let alone all of these things combined].

 

Sixth -- Unless these guys have a whole team of Hulks, or are hanging in Superman's League, they are totally screwed. The only thing they have going in their favor is that they're holding the congress hostage. They are doing that right? If not, God help them. And if they are, was there some reason it was a full session. If not there were probably three guys in their talking to an empty chamber.

 

Seventh -- sounds like martial law just got imposed in Washington DC and the place just became an armed camp. Ever hit a super with a full on blast from a 30 MM Vulcan? Or several Vulcans? Or a 120 MM Tank Shell. Let alone the fact that they constitute a cause for the use of unconventional weapons. What happens to a super hit with a gell-ball filled with VX Gas Goo? Or when they get nailed with a Sarin Gas shell? What if the government gets tricky and drives them into the bunker beneath the capitol. Sure, they can hold out, but what happens when the doors are cemented shut and carbon monoxide is pumped in?

 

Eighth -- from a role playing perspective, unless they intend to start bumping off hostages/congressmen, their only out is a surrender, and if they can get the word out on why they went to such extreme steps, maybe a pardon, but here's the flaw with that. They didn't walk in and say -- we need to draw this to everyone's attention and this is how we're going to get the word out.... They wen't in and announced they were taking over the government.

 

OUCH!

[DoctorItron]

You might not even need the military. The 9 PCs announce "We are taking over the country!" I think virtually every American would unite against them, including superheroes and supervillains. Certainly there must be a few supers with "teleport target to the moon" or "drain superpower" powers.

 

If you're running an atypical game where the PCs are the only people in the country with superpowers, then the military would break out attack helicopters, A10's (the ugly flying tanks), and other heavy weapons. If that still didn't work, and the government was about to be taken over by a hostile force, collateral damage would become acceptable and chemical or even nuclear weapons might be used.

 

There's always the more subtle approach, too. Do any of the PCs have friends and family? Take hostages!

[SuperPheemy]

Well, marching onto Capital Hill is going to cause untold amounts of damage. Firstly, any Secret Service agents on duty there will die trying to stop the SuperBeings from gaining entrance, or to evict them once they did gain entrance. In addition, the world news media will cover every bloody second, in real-time, with all the shaky combat footage they can muster.

 

Also, if the Federal Government has a Superhero team "on call" you can bet they will be on the scene post haste. As well as any Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, or Coast Guard forces that can scramble on a moment's notice.

 

While the assembled security forces try to prevent the SuperBeings from getting in, other forces will be getting the Congressmen and Senators OUT. You can also safely assume that the President, VP, and the Supreme Court Justices will also be evacuated in the most expedient manner possible.

 

Unless it is crystal clear that the government is an oppressive, totalitarian entity that deserves to be overthrown, the PCs can expect a general resistance to their rule from almost everyone. In short, marching on Congress and disbanding the government turns them instantly into Supervillains of the maniacal dictator bent.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy

Firstly, any Secret Service agents on duty there will die trying to stop the SuperBeings from gaining entrance, or to evict them once they did gain entrance.

 

/nitpick alert

 

It would be the Capitol Police, not the Secret Service.

 

/end nitpick alert

[SuperPheemy]

Capital Police, Secret Service... The dudes in suits with machineguns paid to die in defense of our elected officials.

 

Which reminds me, if the government had some sort of "super agency" like S.H.I.E.L.D., CHECKMATE, or even G.I. JOE there's probably a couple of ELITE squads hanging around DC for justsuchanemergency.

[Asperion]

The government will continue to peck at them with the same military forces that they defeated. If the final battle proved to be close, then the government would send in stronger forces. In addition they would also use covert operations teams to catch them with their guard down. These teams most likely will not do any to much actual combat. Their primary purpose would be to gather intel about the PCs (strengths, abilities, weaknesses, hunteds, etc.). They would most likely be working in conjunction with the FBI in getting this intel. As useful hunteds appear, they will be manipulated to bringing down the PCs if not out right hired by the government. Also the government would have supers on their payroll (or at least that can be called upon) that can give the PCs a good run for their money if not actually defeat them. And remember during times of crises the government can declare martial law with or without a declaration of war. Under martial law, the government determines who can get the necessities of life and how much they get. Under that ability, they would simply state that the criminals (including the PCs) are not allowed any food and they will simply starve to death or start stealing what is needed to live, unles they have the power that means that they do not have to eat.

[William Bushway]

This is when I'd introduce the Secret Service supers - people who have powers, but they're so limited in scope that they can't operate as a costumed hero would. So instead, they've taken the steady paycheck of a government job. Of course, the government has made sure that none of these folks have public identities.

 

Your hero marches up to the White House, when an anynonymous Secret Serviceman places a hand on his chest.

 

Anonymous Secret Serviceman: "Sir, I'm afraid I can't let you pass."

 

Hero: "And how do you intend to stop me?"

 

That's when A.S.S. hits him with 1" Superleap, UAO, No Range, Megascale (1" = 1,000,000 miles).

[BishopofB&W]

Untouchable Trio+One?

 

This sounds like an issue of Knights of the Dinner Table where Brian, Dave, and Bob try to wreck another campaign.

[Lord Liaden]

I notice that you mentioned that the PCs think they are "among the most powerful beings on the planet"; does that mean that there are others on Earth who are as powerful, or more? If so, and if the government had reason to expect more trouble from the PCs, would any of these others be open to being persuaded to assist the government? Say, out of an appeal to patriotism, or a pardon for past misdeeds, or maybe just a hefty paycheck?

 

I'm curious as to how the conflict between the PCs and the government has deteriorated to this point; that might give us a clearer idea of how to suggest approaching this.

[RevHooligan]

If I was the GM facing this deal, the PCs would come up against the "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" guys. In a world of known superpowers, the ultraparanoid intel services would have MAD covert supers. No flashy spandex or nothing. Just guys in JC Penney suits and dark glasses. Hell, I'd make them all look like kittens. 900 active point martial artist kittens. With fire breath. And mind scan, targeting.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

... and ... and ... and. What everyone else here said, trebled. Every Good-Guy Gun in the WORLD is going to be offering their services; hell, half the BAD guys are going to be saying to the USG, 'Hey, if you give us all Unconditional Pardons from anything we've done in the past, plus a hundred million dollars each, we'll take 'em on for you.' And the government will do it.

 

They'll also evacuate DC, and 20km of the surrounding Maryland/Virginia countryside, just in case the worst scenario occurs and they have to tac-nuke the PCs. However, I guarantee that in a universe in which the PCs are 'some of' the most powerful people on the planet (a la White Wolf's Aberrant game), the major world powers have measures in place to defend the governmental system.

 

In the US, I prefer a Secret Service agent, usually on the Presidential Detail -- a normal guy, just with one of two sets of powers. Either:

• a very strong 'Drain, vs. All Superhuman Abilities at Once (+2), AoE Radius (+1), 0 END (+½), Persistent (+½), Personal Immunity (+¼), IPF/X (+1), Always On (-½) (35 points per 1d6) -- and an Uzi, just like every other Secret Service guy, or
  
• a Killing Attack, AVLD (something obscure, like Power Defense), Does Body, IPF/X.
  

This is the guy who is there to be the last line of defense for the President, the guy who is there to Kill Rogue Paranormals Who Try To Kill The Boss.

 

If your PCs have actually done this -- stupid, but some groups are like that -- you have one of four routes you can go. You can have no mercy and kill them now, you can let them escape and be on the run for the rest of their (probably short) natural lives, you can defeat, capture, and 'Suicide Squad' them (implanted cortex bombs, disloyalty/disobedience and they go Boom), or you can let them get away with it, then turn them into NPCs.

 

Killing them now means doing any one of the many things said here; I actually sort of like the 'DC's been nuked, now you're playing a character in the aftermath' campaign.

 

Letting them escape means things change greatly for the PCs; nobody will trust them, they go from 'good guys' to 100% bad guys. Though Dr. Destroyer might find them interesting conversational partners...

 

Suicide Squad means they get to play, but are forced to dance to the tune of the government -- and they WILL get sent off on 100% impossible missions, succeed or die, thank you very much.

 

Letting them get away with it? Turn them into NPCs, have them create new characters, and OCCASIONALLY ask their advice about how an ex-PC might react or make a decision. Let's face it, their version of the US would very abruptly become a police state, and nobody IN the US would put up with it. They'd probably control the DC area, that's about it...

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Okay. If there's just the military (read: no superhumans), and you just threw everything at them, then they should win. If you didn't, they're being arrogant and need to be stomped.

 

If it's not just the military, well...

 

Don't pull out the 'silly' rules constructs.

 

You don't need to.

 

Heck, have them stopped a tel/precog. Might wanna *try* and save your campaign...

[Doug McCrae]

Re: DC Assault

 

Originally posted by FTJoshua

In my last post, I asked for help designing or finding tanks and related military weapons used to go after some high-powered PC's. The PC's survived the attack

Why did the government attack the PCs in the first place?

[assault]

I'd go with short, bloody and memorable. If you do it right, the players will remember this game in twenty years time.

 

Yes, that's a vote for "kill them all". Just do it right.

 

Alan

[dbsousa]

It seems clear to me that your players want to play a game where they rule the world. I say let them. Give them a decent fight, and if they win let them rule the world.

 

 

Here is the world they rule...

• Absent a US government, Law and order break down. People start looting stores for food.
   
  
• Racial and religious tensions break out into all out war. Lynchings and riots rise to higher levels than the post reconstruction era
   
  
• The day the Heroes take control, the Stock Market loses 90% of its value. Unemployment rises to 60% in the first three months
   
  
• Texas, Montana, and Utah declare their independance, and wrest control of the nuclear weapons in their states. Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia form a new country, the richest per capita in the world.
   
  
• The European Union and Russia decide to invade, to liberate the American people from the mad dictators.
   
  
• The American Resistance sends suicide bombers to take out the heroes. Everywhere the heroes go they encounter signs of the resistance, from graffiti on the walls, to flags flown upside down.
   
  

 

Sounds like a fun game to me...

[Demonsong]

I'd go with short, bloody and memorable. If you do it right, the players will remember this game in twenty years time.

Yes, that's a vote for "kill them all". Just do it right.

 

I totally agree with assault here. I have one rule that I live buy more than any other as a GM.

 

“I DO NOT KILL PLAYER CHARACTERS! I LET PLAYER CHARACTERS KILL THEMSELVES!â€

 

This whole thing sounds like a group of supers that just made a mass suicide pact. So be it! Your job as a GM is to give them the death they want so badly. Just make it spectacular.

[FTJoshua]

WOW! You guys rock.

 

1. Everything that's been said is exactly what I am afraid of. I just don't see success as an option.

 

2. The initial assault to take out the PC's was based on one particular high power mutant, Damage Inc., who--in the public eye--is a loose cannon, a barbarian, no regard of human life. The local government finally got the wheels turning and lured him and the rest of the PC's to a remote location where they tried to destroy them. Loved ones were killed, but no PC's.

 

3. Damage feels that all we have to do is march into the captiol building (or wherever congress is in session), tell them that we are going to give the people what they want, and then enforce it. He thinks, for example, that if we get on TV and tell the American people, 'No taxes? Done! A wall between Mexico and the US? Done!' then most Americans will applaud the appearance of 9 mutants who can "finally get something done." I, personally, totally disagree that this would happen.

 

4. Capturing the Congress won't be hard, I don't think; we do have access to a super stealth plane that is supposed to just sort of drop us off on the building, and in we go. What happens after that, though, seems deadly.

 

All of your comments have been megascale helpful, because I've been unable to express to the "team" why this is doomed. But some of them really do believe it will be that easy. Also they are fresh off a victory where they took out tanks and Blackhawks, and managed to down 2 jets before the jets could dump their dumb bombs. The deaths of loved ones is also fueling the fire.

 

Quick backstory, by the way: The campaign is similar to X-Men in the "racist" attitudes of most humans vs. mutants, but in our campaign, it is much stronger. There is no School for Gifted Youngsters; it would be burned to the ground by angry mobs.

 

Previously, there were IMPS, who were mutant police. But they were just as corrupt as any other govenmental body, and the PC's, by luck, were able to televise their brutality and corruption, and bring about their end. So they figure they can do the same on a national level.

 

Any more help will be appreciated. I will probably send the team a link to this thread.

THANKS!

[FTJoshua]

One other thing: The thinking is that, since the some of the public (at least in Arizona and California) is aware of how strong these mutants are, if they can prove to the public that they will do what the public wants, the public will endorse them, thereby tying the hands of the government. The PC's think that if they tell the American people, "Tell us what we can do to prove we're here for YOU," the people will throw out 100 suggestions, the PC's will pick the one most people want, and go solve it. That will "prove" the mutants are here to help where the Fed has been unable to.

 

Neat idea. Admirable, even. Likely?

 

I just think the PC's are not up to date on American psychology.

[Demonsong]

I will probably send the team a link to this thread.

Don’t do that!!! Why destroy your fun?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Riots. Lynch mobs. Front-lawn cross-burnings -- with real live mutants on them. Mr. Trask creating Sentinels over in Utah or Montana or Colorado or some sh!t.

 

I'm not saying they can't win; it's up to you to decide what sort of game world you want to evolve into, because this is the deciding point -- although it MAY have gone too far already. Sure, people might cheer them -- for 10 days, maybe. Then the side-effects set in. 'How do I know Joe Mutie next door isn't going to take over my home town?' 'Hey, the Ruling Council is all mutants, and so am I. I don't have to take sh!t from you no more, baseline.'

 

Sounds to me like your PCs are too powerful, and that it's time for them to be retired. Perhaps a mystic/seer walks up the steps as they're landing on the Capitol building, holds out her hands to stop them, and gives them a flash-forward image of the world 'if they do what they are setting out to do' -- in effect, the concentration camps of Days of Future Past... or something even worse.

 

It's your campaign; you, even more than the players, are going to have to live with the decision. YOU have to run it.

[FTJoshua]

Originally posted by Demonsong

Don’t do that!!! Why destroy your fun?

 

Yeah, I have rethought that. No links.

[Lord Liaden]

The PCs have experienced first hand the violent anti-mutant racism in American society in your world; what makes them think that if they take over the government, by force no less, the majority of Americans will suddenly change their opinions and trust them to keep their promises to make the country a better place?

 

If you want to convince them that public sympathies are not going to be with them, the government probably had video links to the PC's earlier battle with the military; have them catch news broadcasts showing footage of the fight edited to look as damning as possible, with commentary on the danger of these rogue paranormals who "launched an unwarranted attack on the lawful government of the United States."

[BlackSword]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy

While the assembled security forces try to prevent the SuperBeings from getting in, other forces will be getting the Congressmen and Senators OUT. You can also safely assume that the President, VP, and the Supreme Court Justices will also be evacuated in the most expedient manner possible.

 

As the president enters his secret office in Cheyenne Mountain, the major villain of the campaign (if there is one), a Magneto or Dr. Destroyer stands up from his desk and says, "Mr. President, you have a problem, I have a solution, lets make a deal."

 

After a bloody fight the heroes are defeated. Next campaign, heroes dealing with the fact that the supervillain has just ingratiated himself with the government by being its savior.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by RevHooligan

If I was the GM facing this deal, the PCs would come up against the "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" guys. In a world of known superpowers, the ultraparanoid intel services would have MAD covert supers. No flashy spandex or nothing. Just guys in JC Penney suits and dark glasses. Hell, I'd make them all look like kittens. 900 active point martial artist kittens. With fire breath. And mind scan, targeting.

 

My long term [13 year] campaign centered on just such a team