Corruption of power

[Steve]

It is said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

Have you ever looked at this notion in a Champions campaign? Many superpowered sorts gained their powers suddenly, without any time to mentally prepare to deal with it, yet they emerge as heroes.

 

Why is this so?

 

What drives a person who gains powers to act with such selflessness?

 

Have they ever been tempted to use their powers to make their own lives better or indulge a desire?

 

For example, consider a mentalist with powers of telepathy, mind control, etc. If he sees a beautiful woman on the street, is there a temptation to use those powers on her? Even just using telepathy would give a boost to an attempt at seduction, let alone something more crude like mind control or emotion control.

 

Is the corruption of power a theme you've explored in a campaign, either as a player or GM? How did it work out?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Corruption of power

 

My thought: the underlying assumption is that, most people get away with not trying to make things better, out of a sense ( accurate or not ) of helplessness.

 

The sudden grant of power gives a person the ability to fulfill their previously unmanifested desires. . . but not all of them are necessarily bad.

 

In addition, just because you now have power, doesn't mean you suddenly don't care about social approval.

[Hermit]

Re: Corruption of power

 

I sort of assume that's where the supervillains come from, and why they outnumber the superheroes. More people will abuse the power than use it responsibly. PCs, being heroic (Hopefully) soon learn being super is only half the formula in being superheroes.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Personally, I have dealt with it a few times. While it hasn't shown yet, the corruption of power is a primary theme in my Scales out of Balance campaign on HC....

 

As a player, I've played several characters who had various forms of corruption as a factor, whether literal (Nucleon, the Radioactive Man) or more figurative (Mindgame, kind of a teenaged Menton until he thumped himself upside the moral compass and straightened himself out).

 

Personally, it's a theme I've kinda enjoyed working on.

[OddHat]

Re: Corruption of power

 

One theme of my campaign is that most Super-criminals tend to be in their teens or twenties, with only the worst of the lot remaining active as independent criminals into their late twenties and beyond. Same pattern as followed by normal criminals. Those Supers are the ones corrupted by power.

 

Young Superheroes are in it for the peer approval, the thrill, the fame, the money, idealism, a desire to serve, religious faith, and generally all the same urges that lead young people to do other forms of volunteer work and low paying public service. An idealistic adventure hungry kid in the real world may enlist in the military; in my campaign, that same kid with Superpowers may join up with the OSI. A devout Christian in the real world may choose to volunteer X hours per week as a Fire Fighter; in my campaign that same man, given powers, might choose to join his local volunteer Watchmen program.

 

I don't agree that power corrupts. We all have cruel and kind, selfish and selfless instincts and impulses, and more power allows someone who wants to indulge their dark side more freedom to do so. Still, most people do not torture their spouses, pets or children, rob their neighbors, or otherwise abuse their power on a level where concrete harm to others is direct and visible. I'd recommend looking into some books on the possible origins of altruism if you're interested in the subject; Barber's Kindness in a Cruel World is one of my favorites. de Waal's Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved is also excellent.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Corruption of power

 

I don't agree that power corrupts. We all have cruel and kind, selfish and selfless instincts and impulses, and more power allows someone who wants to indulge their dark side more freedom to do so. Still, most people do not torture their spouses, pets or children, rob their neighbors, or otherwise abuse their power on a level where concrete harm to others is direct and visible. I'd recommend looking into some books on the possible origins of altruism if you're interested in the subject; Barber's Kindness in a Cruel World is one of my favorites. de Waal's Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved is also excellent.

 

I think the Stanford Prison Experiment offers a fairly solid counterexample...

[OddHat]

Re: Corruption of power

 

I think the Stanford Prison Experiment offers a fairly solid counterexample...

 

Nope. Kids in the period of their lives where they're most likely to engage in dominance displays, broken into sub groups put under stress and in an environment with no incentive to cooperate. Of course they behaved cruelly to non sub group members. Doesn't change or challenge the survival value of cooperative and altruistic behavior within groups over time at all; it just suggests that non group members will under some circumstances be abused.

[Fireleaper]

Re: Corruption of power

 

My two cents is that yes power can corrupt and absolute power can corrupt absolutely, but it is the self controll/discipline/altruism of the person with power that is the key factor.

 

The problem i see in many supervillans is that either

A: they lack a certain degree of discipline and loose themselves on an ego trip,

B: They are too fanatically inclined with an idea (Frankenstein, Religeon, Someone being wrong, The only way to save the world is to destroy humanity etc.) and the gain of these powers decreases their humanity in some way (e.g. Menton and his puppets),

C: Have been seeking power for a while and have forgotten why they needed it, giving them the idle hands syndrome.

 

That being said some people are aware that they have power and are aware of the temptation to use it and set limits for themselves (e.g. will use telepathy powers in corporate dealings but only to confirm honesty of customers/partners) this is where i think that most supers start becoming hero's - when they choose to be limited by morality (morality as in some form of code or conduct that guides you in safe and responsible interaction with those around you.)

[Robyn]

Re: Corruption of power

 

My two cents is that yes power can corrupt and absolute power can corrupt absolutely' date=' but it is the self controll/discipline/altruism of the person with power that is the key factor.[/quote']

 

Interesting that you should say this and then:

 

(morality as in some form of code or conduct that guides you in safe and responsible interaction with those around you.)

 

Morality need not be altruism, the character might have their long-term survival (and prosperity) in mind and therefore be guided by greed to restraining themselves in pursuit of the largest profit over the course of their lives.

 

Short-sighted individuals might place their immediate lusts over their own futures, but in general morality could be motivated by an interest in helping oneself rather than others (or, helping oneself by helping others; specifically, those around you, to surround yourself with strong people who owe you and honestly want to express how grateful they are).

[Fireleaper]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Morality need not be altruism, the character might have their long-term survival (and prosperity) in mind and therefore be guided by greed to restraining themselves in pursuit of the largest profit over the course of their lives.

 

You are right morality need not be altruism. I place the example of long term greed you have written as a form of self controll. directing your greed into a long term plan and having the Discipline to carry it out.

 

Short-sighted individuals might place their immediate lusts over their own futures, but in general morality could be motivated by an interest in helping oneself rather than others (or, helping oneself by helping others; specifically, those around you, to surround yourself with strong people who owe you and honestly want to express how grateful they are).

 

Again I don't see this example as interfering with how I have described morality, although admittedly this example could represent a form of altruism (or lack of). I mainly wrote that comment on morality because it has never been accuratley described to me (lots of examples but no one has given me a solid definition), admitedly it may not be the best definition but it at least is a starting point.

 

Also have you noticed that some villans can be more moral than some hero's - it is just their method which causes problems.

[kiahoga]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Can power corrupt? Yes indeed it can we've seen it again an again throughout history Hitler,Po Pot,Stalin although with these examples you can also argue that they were corrupt before comming to power. But also you have situation where people with power used it for social change for the good of their people such a Cyrus the great of Persia, Teddy Roosevelt, and even Alexander Gram Bell .

 

The Problem with power is its a tool you use to accomplish your desires. where the corruption is in that the more you use it the more you can change your sense of self and how you precive the world around you and the people in it.

 

As a aside a new sieres on the networks called heroes does look at some of these issues .

[Narratio]

Re: Corruption of power

 

This happened by accident way back under 1st edition champions. The teams martial artist was living a hand-to-mouth existence in his secret ID. The Really rich super baddie made him a very nice financially worthwhile offer which was accepted. We did that as a RP away from the main group.

 

Came the next game night, the martial artist kept klutzing things up, but the other gamers thought he was just being a twit and not thinking about what he was doing. They win teh fight against the Super Baddies peons, the martial artist volunteers to guard them while the team goes in pursuit of super baddy and wham. He turned his coat and the peons and he disappeared, but it was the end of the night so we didn't play it. We all left, went down to the pub and did the usual after session bull.

 

The next game night it all came out. There was a huge real life argument between the players. And some extremely competitive combat between me handling the NPC bad guys, the MA and his ex-team mates. It was fun for all and, amazingly enough, the whole group started playing differently. It honestly affected all involved. Still makes me shake my head in wonder.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Corruption of power

 

On the corruption of power as seen with superpowers:

 

Given that there's been a bit of debate over this subject, I'm going to throw my pennies into the jar.

 

In my mind, "power corrupts" doesn't mean "I have power... bwahahahahaha! I have no need to be moral ever again, because I can make everybody listen to me!"

 

At least not always.

 

Allow me the following examples:

 

Mindgame was a teenager, a geek, and generally about one step short of the bottom rung of the social ladder in his school. He developed potent telepathic powers. He wasn't 'evil' before, but now that he had the ability to make people do what he wanted and not get caught, he used it. What started out as lashing out against the people who belittled him turned into a borderline supervillain as he indulged more and more selfish desires. He eventually turned around though... at least in that he took on more positive general motivations and goals. He kept up some of his "bad habits" all the same.

 

In this case, power corrupts in the sense that is often portrayed by folks who don't necessarily get it at first (a lot of comic book writers that I've read, for example.... ).

 

Now, here's a (slightly) more subtle way of handling it, which will be demonstrated by another telepath, Professor Jurnix.

 

Professor Jurnix is a telepath cut from the same cloth as Professor X. Right down to the school he runs. He is a telepath capable of taking a person, erasing their mind and personality, and replacing it with something more to his liking. Also capable of subtle manipulation of luck and related things, but the telepathy's the main issue.

 

He has a vision of a world where mutants and humans live together in peace... there's just one problem. Some mutants aren't interested in that, and neither are some humans. Further, some mutants are more interested in trying to cobble together their lives rather than going through some idealistic crusade.

 

So, when necessary, he just gives a little mental nudge to people to keep them on track. No harm done, and it's for the greater good, right? Eventually, he arranges for the escape of a particularly powerful, psychopathic mutant from his mental ward... and, when he escapes, he has his second-in-command perform the mind-wipe (after all, it's a useful skill, she needs to practice it) and then reprograms him so that he's more useful to The Cause. This guy was a menace to society as he was before. He was going to be in a mental ward for the rest of his life, most likely, and erasing his base personality was the right thing to do. After that, it only makes sense to remake him in a more useful form.

 

Right?

 

After finding out that one of his students is an abuse survivor (took him all of 5 minutes to do so), he offers to completely erase the memories... and actually has to be fought off so that he doesn't do it. The fact that this person doesn't *want* to take the easy out (on account of being terrified of letting somebody into his brain enough where they could do that) doesn't matter until somebody else comes to his defense.

 

Ultimately, Jurnix isn't a bad guy... he's just a fanatic to a cause who's willing to ignore little things like commonly held morality. Normal morals don't apply to him because he's so much smarter than everybody else; he can see how things are going to turn out (assuming everything goes the way he thinks it will). He's powerful enough to avoid punishments for what he does, therefore, he doesn't have to worry about that, and can enforce his *own* brand of morality without serious fear of punishment.

 

This is the subtler, more insidious, form of power corrupting that can be so much more interesting....

[input.jack]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Yes, people have said "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". But theyve also said "the world is flat" and "menthol cigarettes are a good cure for athsma" (its true; my mother was told that when she was a teenager back in the 40's).

 

Just because someone says something, or even a LOT of people say something, doesnt make it true.

 

Right now, Im playing a character named Guardian Alpha in a campaign set in a fairly typical modern-day supers setting. His powers are basically those of Superman, and hes 17 years old.

 

He -could- abuse his powers incredibly. And Ill admit, the temptation -is- there (hes 17 and has X-Ray Vision. Do the math)

 

But he doesnt. He doesnt eavesdrop on his friends' private conversations. He doesnt spy on people through their houses. He doesnt hover outside the window of the girl hes interested in and watch her through the walls. (Hmm...all things that Superman did in "Superman Returns"....)

 

The point is that while, yes, there -is- a definate temptation to abuse your Powers, and while yes, there will be -some- people (maybe even most people) who do that, I believe that there are some people in the world with enough self-discipline and willpower, and enough of a sense of what is right and what is wrong, that they would refrain from abusing their Powers.

 

 

 

Oh, and jkwleisemann, Jurnix IS a "bad guy"

[OddHat]

Re: Corruption of power

 

The point is that while, yes, there -is- a definate temptation to abuse your Powers, and while yes, there will be -some- people (maybe even most people) who do that, I believe that there are some people in the world with enough self-discipline and willpower, and enough of a sense of what is right and what is wrong, that they would refrain from abusing their Powers.

 

There are different types and levels of abuse. The occasional peek through a dress using X-Ray vision is qualitatively different from using your super-strength to rape and murder the prom queen. Most people would use their powers to improve their own lives in ways that did not directly cause harm to others, even if it meant minor violations of ethics or the law, just as most people drive over the speed limit or do what they can to pay as little as possible in taxes. The percentage of people who would use their powers in ways that do directly harm others (assault, robbery, rape, murder) would be about the same as the percentage of people who engage in those activities now. In most campaigns, by definition they would not be the Heroes; they'd be the Bad Guys.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Corruption of power

 

I know my vast amounts of power has corrupted me, to be sure.

Yup, I'm totally corrupted.

And powerful.

*sigh*

[Steve]

Re: Corruption of power

 

There are different types and levels of abuse. The occasional peek through a dress using X-Ray vision is qualitatively different from using your super-strength to rape and murder the prom queen. Most people would use their powers to improve their own lives in ways that did not directly cause harm to others' date=' even if it meant minor violations of ethics or the law, just as most people drive over the speed limit or do what they can to pay as little as possible in taxes. The percentage of people who would use their powers in ways that do directly harm others (assault, robbery, rape, murder) would be about the same as the percentage of people who engage in those activities now. In most campaigns, by definition they would not be the Heroes; they'd be the Bad Guys.[/quote']

 

This is pretty much what I assumed most people would do in campaigns that explored this issue. Some heroes seem to go out of their way to avoid using their powers to indulge themselves in even slight ways. Some heroes indulge themselves in minor ways, like peeping at the beautiful woman using X-ray vision or using invisibility to go places they shouldn't go (from corporate boardrooms to locker rooms). It's a gradual scale, one leading to total villainy on the far end of it.

 

If your character had mental powers, would they be tempted to "nudge" a traffic cop from giving them a citation for speeding, or getting that beautiful woman to go out with them? If they had enhanced physical abilities, would they be tempted to use them in professional sports, even if they have to hold back a lot to avoid showing too much ability? If they lost their job and had debts to pay, would they be tempted to get money other ways? I'm not saying they have to hurt people when giving into temptations, but just that the temptation to indulge "just a little bit" is there and what does that character do about it?

[schir1964]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Perhaps this has already been mentioned.

 

The phrase, "Power corrupts and Absolute Power corrupts absolutely", I think is not really addressing the, "I can do great and powerful thngs!", as the corrupting component.

 

I think it is addressing the, "I can do anything without suffering any consequences!", as the corrupting component.

 

Thus there tends to be a correlation between More Power and Less Consequences.

 

Someone who has no "Moral Bearing" as it were, may not have any quibbles about stealing for their own gain, but the consequences outweigh the benefits of doing so usually, so they won't steal unless they are convinced at the time that they can do so without consequence.

 

Thus, More Power = More Opportunities to steal without consequence.

 

And finally...

 

Power = More Bad Deeds Without Consequences = Corruption

Absolute Power = Any Bad Deed With No Consequence Ever = Total Corruption

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

[OddHat]

Re: Corruption of power

 

If your character had mental powers, would they be tempted to "nudge" a traffic cop from giving them a citation for speeding, or getting that beautiful woman to go out with them?

 

These are unethical acts, the equivalent of getting a girl too drunk to say no. I wouldn't be tempted to do this at this stage of my life, but I might play a younger character who would if the storyline was about his learning process.

 

If they had enhanced physical abilities, would they be tempted to use them in professional sports, even if they have to hold back a lot to avoid showing too much ability?

 

This isn't unethical at all, and I've never accepted the rationale that it is. If you're naturally faster and stronger, and pro sports are your career, of course you'll use your abilities to compete. We don't ask 7 foot tall NBAers to play on their knees so short players will have more of a chance.

 

If they lost their job and had debts to pay, would they be tempted to get money other ways?

 

Sure, but then there are tons of legal things that many classic superpower sets would let you do to make money before you'd need to start smashing into ATM machines.

 

I'm not saying they have to hurt people when giving into temptations, but just that the temptation to indulge "just a little bit" is there and what does that character do about it?

 

Of my currently active characters, Flesh Gordon already uses the fame his powers have brought him to knit together an acting career, mostly b-movies and bad TV shows. Style would offer to carry satellites into low earth orbit for a few million a pop instead of the tens of millions it currently costs.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Oh' date=' and jkwleisemann, Jurnix IS a "bad guy" [/quote']

You should've heard what his player/writer said when I said that. Since I don't want to get banned, I won't repeat it here.

 

As for whether or not it always corrupts? Of course not! There wouldn't be any heroes if that wasy the case.

 

I just don't necessarily like the boy scouts who never even acknowledge that the temptation's there... or who think that giving in sometimes means you're actually a villain.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Corruption of power

 

The worst thing anyone can do is make some one feel powerless.

 

Suddenly you have POWER and can use it to affect yours and other peoples lives in a beneficial way. You are not powerless to change things. A masked or Secret Identity further allows you drop your inhibitions you place on yourself and the ones inforced by society.

 

Lawyer presents an eviction notice to tenants of an Apartment Complex leaving them out on the street. The Police have to help him do it, but the Superhero can make life extremely uncomfortable for him and there is very little the Lawyer can do about it.

 

Yes this set up an above the Law bit, but not above Justice.

 

 

 

Respectfully

 

QM

[Steve]

Re: Corruption of power

 

The worst thing anyone can do is make some one feel powerless.

 

Suddenly you have POWER and can use it to affect yours and other peoples lives in a beneficial way. You are not powerless to change things. A masked or Secret Identity further allows you drop your inhibitions you place on yourself and the ones inforced by society.

 

This is how I see young Peter Parker before he was bitten by that spider. He was bullied by other guys and ignored by the girls. He felt powerless. He pretty much was powerless.

 

Suddenly, he is given this great gift of power. He yields to the temptation they offer and uses those powers to make money and try to better his life. He pays the price for that choice, but a great hero is born in the process.

 

The greatest heroes are those who can resist this corruptive influence, to not yield to baser instincts. That doesn't mean the risk of corruption doesn't exist, that the temptation doesn't exist, but they rise above it somehow.

 

However, many of the greatest villains are those who were once heroes and fell.

[OddHat]

Re: Corruption of power

 

This is how I see young Peter Parker before he was bitten by that spider. He was bullied by other guys and ignored by the girls. He felt powerless. He pretty much was powerless.

 

Suddenly, he is given this great gift of power. He yields to the temptation they offer and uses those powers to make money and try to better his life. He pays the price for that choice, but a great hero is born in the process.

 

Actually, Peter just paid the price for failing to do the obviously right thing when it was easily within his power to do so. Had he grabbed the fleeing crook, Ben wouldn't have died, and Pete could have continued with a career in combat sports, preferably with a better class of employers and an agent to make sure he got paid. Of course, that wouldn't make for the same sort of superhero story.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Corruption of power

 

Actually' date=' Peter just paid the price for failing to do the obviously right thing when it was easily within his power to do so. Had he grabbed the fleeing crook, Ben wouldn't have died, and Pete could have continued with a career in combat sports, preferably with a better class of employers and an agent to make sure he got paid. Of course, that wouldn't make for the same sort of superhero story. [/quote']

I dunno, Peter Parker: Cruiser Weight Champion of the Ulimited Class Wrestling Federation, has a nice ring to it.

[Wanderer]

Re: Corruption of power

 

These are unethical acts' date=' the equivalent of getting a girl too drunk to say no. I wouldn't be tempted to do this at this stage of my life, but I might play a younger character who would if the storyline was about his learning process.[/quote']

 

Honestly, are you really, really sure you'd win over the temptation ?? I keep getting the impression that many people are probably idealizing themselves and the average (wo)man a bit too much about situations like these. I can see a lot of real and fictional people (myself definitely included) using superpowers to give oneself a lot of little unethical selfish nudges to the easy way in many situations, notwithstanding how much heroically they may act when they can make a difference. Revenge, power, and seduction fantasies are a very, very deeply ingrained part of human psyche. Not ever acting on them in any way under even the less harmful circumstances takes a rather unusual kind of psyche, one I feel would keep being unusual even among the crusader-minded folk that feel called to put on a cape and go protecting the world.

 

While many people would be too socialized to go the full way to murder and rape, and shumming the villain way, they might realistically go along with using powers for getting themselves financially affluent without honest toil and sweat, getting away with minor violations of laws and ethics, such as the aforementioned speeding/taxes bit, making oneself all but irresistible for scoring a quick easy seduction (check the millennia-old huge popularity of love spells and potions, folks!), and so on. Call to heroism does not necessarily mean call to sainthood. Yep, some people would not take even these kind of advantages, some might once had but got more idealistic, some former idealists might get more cynical in later days, and some pragmatists may stay such all their heroic careers, feeling that their heroic calling make some fringe benefits their due. As I am fond of thinking, continued willingness to put oneself on the line for the common good is the essence of an hero, not one's lifestyle. For every Clark Kent there is bound to be a Tony Stark and viceversa.

 

To quote a recent movie example, I'm quite persuaded that the average psychologically realistic superhero would be a lot more like Uma Thurman's character in My Super Ex-Girlfriend (altruistic heroic protector of the community, but also definitely not above using superpowers for getting oneself all kinds of selfish edges in personal issues like love life and revenge)