The 300 HERO-fied?

[Killer Shrike]

Just saw the 300. Pretty decent fare for those of our particular interests.

 

Anyone started to HERO-fy anything from the movie yet? Here's a forum to share it in....

[L. Marcus]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

. . . Well, Leonidas should have +20 PRE, Only To Make PRE Attacks (-1/2), Incantations (THIS! IS! SPARTA!!!; -1/4) . . .

 

[OddHat]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Naked Invulnerability: Armor (6 PD/6 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (22 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Must be aware of attack; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Must wear no more than a loincloth, boots and a cape. Females may optionally wear a bikini top.; -1/4) Real Cost: 10 points.

 

I'd say the Giant had Stun Only Damage Reduction and a high BOD score, which looks good until someone finally manages to lop off your head.

[lensman]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

This may not be the power level everyone wants, I tried to low ball it and here now...

 

SPARTAN

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

15 STR 5 12- Lift 151.6kg; 2 1/2d6 [1]

11 DEX 3 11- OCV: 4/DCV: 4

12 CON 4 11-

13 BODY 6 12-

10 INT 0 11- PER Roll 11-

11 EGO 2 11- ECV: 4

27 PRE 5 14- PRE Attack: 5d6

10 COM 0 11-

 

6 PD 3 Total: 6 PD (0 rPD)

2 ED 0 Total: 2 ED (0 rED)

3 SPD 9 Phases: 4, 8, 12

8 REC 6

30 END 3

30 STUN 4

 

Movement:

Running: 6"/12"

Leaping: 2"/4"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Cost Powers END

3 +12 PRE

Ritual ([65-128] casters; -1 3/4)

RSR Hoplite : -1 Roll (-1/2)

OIHID (-1/4)

 

3 Efficent Recovery: 1

Succor END 1d6

Self Only (-1/2)

Extra Time (Extra Segment, Only to Activate, -1/4)

 

4 Root +0 +0 30 STR to resist Shove; Block, Abort

4 Shove +0 +0 30 STR to Shove

4 Martial Block +2 +2 Block, Abort

4 Charge +0 -2 Weapon +2 DC +v/5 Strike, FMove

4 Fast Strike +2 +0 Weapon +2 DC Strike

 

Perks

4 Reputation: Spartan Culture (A medium-sized group) 14-, +2/+2d6

 

Talents

7 Deadly Blow: +1d6 (Spear)

 

Skills

0 Language: Greek (Native)

 

9 Hoplite: Teamwork 14-

 

3 +3 with any single attack with one specific weapon : Spear

10 +2 with HTH Combat

5 +2 with DCV

Limited Power Only to 2x value of Shield or Cover (-1/2)

Requires A Skill Hoplite (Teamwork) -1 Roll (-1/2)

2 WF: Spartan Cultural Melee Weapons

1 WF: Thrown Spears

 

3 Stealth 11-

3 Concealment 11-

2 Survival (Temperate/Subtropical) 11-

 

2 PS: Civilian Life 11-

0 Acting 8-

0 Conversation 8-

0 Deduction 8-

0 Paramedics 8-

0 Shadowing 8-

 

Total Characteristic Cost: 48

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 77

Total Cost: 125

 

50+ Disadvantages

20 Psych. Lim.: Loyalty to Sparta Above all Else (Very Common, Strong)

10 Psych. Lim.: Callous to Idealsnot striving for perfection (Common, Moderate)

45 Experience Points

[sbarron]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

I enjoyed the movie. It was great popcorn movie goodness. But I did find parts kind of silly.

 

The Spartans started out in the nice, tight confines of the pass that would negate the Persians greater numbers, tightly packed into their shoulder to shoulder phalanx. But then as soon as the Persians begin their assault, the Spartans run out to meet the Persians in a wide open field of battle, abandoning their phalanx for the theatrical, acrobatic combat that the kids just love these days.

 

I appreciate the need for this, as watching the Persians throw themselves onto the Greek spears for 3 days wouldn't be much fun to watch, and it hardly upholds the legend of the Spartan fighting prowess. But its still kind of silly. I call this trend toward silly combat scenes "Buffycation." There was certainly this kind of stuff before, specifically in Hercules and Xena. But in my mind Buffy's success really brought it into the fore.

 

Anyway, I really enjoyed the movie...

[Twilight]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Psych Lim: Must bellow at the top of lungs whenever engaged in combat.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

I enjoyed the movie. It was great popcorn movie goodness. But I did find parts kind of silly.

 

The Spartans started out in the nice, tight confines of the pass that would negate the Persians greater numbers, tightly packed into their shoulder to shoulder phalanx. But then as soon as the Persians begin their assault, the Spartans run out to meet the Persians in a wide open field of battle, abandoning their phalanx for the theatrical, acrobatic combat that the kids just love these days.

 

I appreciate the need for this, as watching the Persians throw themselves onto the Greek spears for 3 days wouldn't be much fun to watch, and it hardly upholds the legend of the Spartan fighting prowess. But its still kind of silly. I call this trend toward silly combat scenes "Buffycation." There was certainly this kind of stuff before, specifically in Hercules and Xena. But in my mind Buffy's success really brought it into the fore.

 

Anyway, I really enjoyed the movie...

 

Buffycation. Interesting word/theory.

 

Basically all "Buffycation" is, was filmakers who saw Asian action films and felt lame in comparison, thus they began to mimic it hoping that Western audiences wouldn't notice.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

As a historical note, most of the commentaries I've read about Spartan fighters is that they weren't vastly superior to most of their opponents man-to-man. Against the Persians they had three great advantages: their equipment was generally superior (most of the Persians carried wicker shields); the phalanx formation was a much more effective tactical unit; and perhaps most importantly, the Spartans were far better trained in fighting as a unit than any other army in the world in their day.

 

None of which would likely have looked as good on screen as being nearly-naked bad@$$es.

[Remjin]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

...uh... who watches this kind of movie for historic accuracy? I just wanted to see people kick butt in a major way. hehe.

 

I wouldn't think they always stayed in full formation... probably stayed as long as possible, but every battle would eventually break up into chaos to be reformed again by the leaders, and sometimes pressing the advantage has its merits as well. I tried to take a coarse in Greek and Roman War, but after the first $300 in books I kind of ran out of money for the other 2/3's of the curriculum's required reading. Then again, this is also based on a Frank Miller work and not history, so I guess naked armor works as well. =)

 

As for write-ups, I'd call "naked armor" just combat luck. Works the same. To show insane shield skillz, I'd call it a force field with OAF, Restrainable. =) Nice write-up, Lensman. I liked that as well.

 

And though they had some free-for-all action stuff, I didn't think it was too over the top. I recognized some of the maneuvers from a kung fu style I did for a short while, but they're fairly common to many cultures that used sword and shield or spear and shield. There weren't any spinning jumps and triple-flip action or flying palms of doom/flying palms of perfect defense. It had just enough flash to make it comic book style fun without going way over the top and keeping some of its gritty feel.

 

I'm not sure about the random monsters, but I didn't read the original graphic novel/comic book either. No idea about that. I actually did get very excited about watching the phalanx shield wall work, I find that sort of thing fascinating. It was freakin' awesome, better than the fancy sword/shield work by the son of the captain and the other guy. Then again, I'm also a fan of the fight between Achilles and Hector in the movie Troy, too, since it used a lot of fancy moves that were in the skill sets of the times as far as I could tell. Well, except that sideways lunging thrust maneuver of Achilles, that might not be typical, but at least it didn't include 12 spins and 14 flips to accomplish. =)

[LordGhee]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Lord Liaden,

 

which commentaries are you reading?

 

in my general reading (Herodotus and Thucydides all I have read that are primary)

 

In my general reading the Athenians decide that they could not beat the Spartans in the field. that the Greeks generally believed they where the best and was the best army for 200 years +.

this is what the exile king with the Persian when asked stated.

 

He accompanied Xerxes I on his invasion of Greece in 484 BC and is alleged to have warned Xerxes not to underestimate the Spartans before the Battle of Thermopile:

 

The same goes for the Spartans. One-against-one, they are as good as anyone in the world. But when they fight in a body, they are the best of all. For though they are free men, they are not entirely free. They accept Law as their master. And they respect this master more than your subjects respect you. Whatever he commands, they do. And his command never changes: It forbids them to flee in battle, whatever the number of their foes. He requires them to stand firm -- to conquer or die. O king, if I seem to speak foolishly, I am content from this time forward to remain silent. I only spoke now because you commanded me to. I do hope that everything turns out according to your wishes. — Herodotus vii (trans. G. Rawlinson

 

IN Herodotus history the Persian king brings to Greece an exiled Spartan king at dinner one night tiering of the Spartans claims of best ask his body guards who was the best swordsmen among them. just so happen that number one and two best of the guard was there. the king ask the Immortals to kill the Spartan. Luckly the ex Spartan was armed with a gold dinner plate and killed the two men, he returned the plate to the Great King who must have thought " OMW I am eating next to a killing Machine"

 

but it is just a story.

Lord Ghee

[Lord Liaden]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

I'd have to look up names for you, LordGhee, but I was talking more about modern evaluations of Spartan training and practices, supplementing contemporary commentaries with archaelogical evidence. However, they pretty much agree with your passage from Herodotus: the Spartans were not supermen compared to other individual warriors, but in a body they were far greater than the sum of their parts.

 

 

As for the lethal dinner-plate story, can't say for sure, but Herodotus probably did record his fair share of apocrypha.

[L. Marcus]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

. . . Parts . . .

 

. . . Um . . .

 

. . . Don't mind me, I'm going home for some sleep now . . .

[Badger]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

I enjoyed the movie. It was great popcorn movie goodness. But I did find parts kind of silly.

 

The Spartans started out in the nice, tight confines of the pass that would negate the Persians greater numbers, tightly packed into their shoulder to shoulder phalanx. But then as soon as the Persians begin their assault, the Spartans run out to meet the Persians in a wide open field of battle, abandoning their phalanx for the theatrical, acrobatic combat that the kids just love these days.

 

I appreciate the need for this, as watching the Persians throw themselves onto the Greek spears for 3 days wouldn't be much fun to watch, and it hardly upholds the legend of the Spartan fighting prowess. But its still kind of silly. I call this trend toward silly combat scenes "Buffycation." There was certainly this kind of stuff before, specifically in Hercules and Xena. But in my mind Buffy's success really brought it into the fore.

 

Anyway, I really enjoyed the movie...

 

 

Actually, I wouldnt mind watching the Persians get annihialted for 3 days going up against the phalanx. It'd still provide more than my fill of gore. I'd love to see something historically accurate, along those lines.

 

Those kids are so spoiled these days.

[LordGhee]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Try the 300 spartans (1962)

it is the movie that got me intested in wargaming.

first hour snorr 2nd hour

very historical done with the Greek goverment (thier braveheart) cast of thousands.

 

Lord Ghee

[Nyrath]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Try the 300 spartans (1962)

it is the movie that got me intested in wargaming.

first hour snorr 2nd hour

very historical done with the Greek goverment (thier braveheart) cast of thousands.

And coincidentally, it was the movie that Frank Miller saw as a child, which later inspired him to create the 300 graphic novel.

[Curufea]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Try the 300 spartans (1962)

it is the movie that got me intested in wargaming.

first hour snorr 2nd hour

very historical done with the Greek goverment (thier braveheart) cast of thousands.

 

Lord Ghee

I think the movie that got me interested was Alexander Nevsky by Sergei Eisenstein and Dmitry Vasiliev. They employed the Russian army as extras for the war scenes - and you see cavalry charging infantry.

[LordGhee]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

That is a really good one, but a print did not come out until the 80's? so I was already gone.

 

the one that got me where

 

300 Spartans

Ben Hur (galley naval goodness)

Spartacus (the Roman legions coming over the Hill, 5000 Spanish army soldiers with a reverse negative shot to get the second Legion)

Cleopatra - Roman turtle, more Naval goodness ( more from Ben Hur) and great personal Armour.

The Warlord (with Mr Heston again)- Normans vs vikings and catapults.

finally the vikings good raid on an English ship, bird Fu and a very clever way to get into a castle (with Mr Kirk Douglas and Tony Curtis).

 

Lord Ghee

[Susano]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

The director has stated the purposely made the Spartan combat tactics inaccurate and over the top so it would "look" better on screen and/or simply be more dramatic and action-packed.

 

If you recall, what you're watching is Dilios spinning a tale of Spartan greatness anyway, so it's supposed to be pretty much a "no sh*t, there we were" story from the get go.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

The director has stated the purposely made the Spartan combat tactics inaccurate and over the top so it would "look" better on screen and/or simply be more dramatic and action-packed.

 

If you recall, what you're watching is Dilios spinning a tale of Spartan greatness anyway, so it's supposed to be pretty much a "no sh*t, there we were" story from the get go.

Which is why I can not take anyone who complains about this movie's historicity seriously.

 

This movie was not meant to be a documentary, it was supposed to be a gritty fairy tale/propaganda piece for the Spartans.

 

As to the issue of "freedom, justice, the Spartan way,"? It's a pretty well known fact that the concept of a "free people" and such had a very different concept and framework for the Spartans than modern day Americans, and for the time, the Greeks were very free. Maybe not free from intereference from what we would consider the State, but free from the outside influence of those not of their tribe. The Greeks had the freedom of self determination, which was significant for the time.

 

 

TB

[OddHat]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

All this analysis of the movie isn't actually Hero-fying it.

 

Here's how I'd write up the giant:

 

PERSIAN GIANT

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

30 STR 20 15- Lift 1600.0kg; 6d6; [3]

11 DEX 3 11- OCV 4 DCV 4

18 CON 16 13-

18 BODY 16 13-

8 INT -2 11- PER Roll 11-

8 EGO -4 11- ECV: 3

20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6

6 COM -2 10-

 

12 PD 0 Total: 12 PD (6 rPD)

10 ED 0 Total: 10 ED (6 rED)

2 SPD 0 Phases: 6, 12

10 REC 0

36 END 0

42 STUN 0 Total Characteristic Cost: 55

 

 

Movement: Running: 6" / 12"

Swimming: 2" / 4"

Leaping: 4" / 8"

 

Cost Powers END

20 Massive Size and Strength: Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6 (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) Note: Pure size and strength allow the Persian Giant to destroy lesser mortals with a single blow 3

12 Berserker's Invincibility: Armor (6 PD/6 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (22 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Must be aware of atttack, does not prevent penetration; -1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4) Note: Numerous blows that should have crippled or killed the giant were shrugged off as nothing at all, despite penetrating his flesh, until the blow that cut his head off. This is treated as part of the Does Not Prevent Penetration limit; if a blow that would sever a limb hits, the limb is severed, even if the Armor that does not prevent penetration would otherwise have blocked all damage. 0

45 A Berserker Feels No Pain: (Total: 90 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 75% (60 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Must be aware of attack; -1/4) (Real Cost: 30) plus Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Must be aware of attack; -1/4) (Real Cost: 15) Note: The Giant takes a sword to the eye without visible pain; pretty much nothing should be able to knock him out that doesn't kill him, at least while he's in his combat frenzy. 0

5 Rapid Healing Note: The giant is covered in scars, and is clearly a veteran. It seems likely he recovers quickly from anything.

 

 

Skills

9 +3 with punch, move through, haymaker Note: The giant seems to hit most of the time when he swings

4 WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons

 

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 95

Total Cost: 150

 

75+ Disadvantages

35 Enraged: In Combat (Very Common), go 14-, recover 8-

25 Social Limitation: Slave used only for war (Very Frequently, Severe)

15 Distinctive Features: Gigantism, covered in scars (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

0 Experience Points

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 150

 

Background/History: The Persian Giant in Frank Miller's 300 is a terrifying foe even to the butch men of the 300, his incredible size and berserk immunity to pain making him a match even for the greatest of the Spartans, at least face to face on the battle field. He is kept as a slave by the Persian army, unleashed only to do battle. If he ever had any personality before his slavery, it seems gone at this point. He now lives only to kill.

 

His tactics are pretty much close and kill; he can pick up and use weapons or crush a normal man with a single blow. He's tough enough to take a sword through the eye socket (and presumably brain) without slowing down, but is finally killed when his head is lopped off. There are many ways to represent this; I went with armor that doesn't prevent penetration and enough damage reduction that even a sword to the eye is unlikely to stun him. Because his invulnerability reflects mindless rage, he can still be stunned when taken by surprise or when already falling back against multiple attackers.

 

The Giant is huge, scarred, hairless, impossibly ugly, and is kept in chains when not being released to kill.

 

Character by Frank Miller, Character Sheet by Robert Dorf, 2007

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Cool write up. Very portable.

[Susano]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

All this analysis of the movie isn't actually Hero-fying it.

 

Here's how I'd write up the giant:

 

Can I get a copy for the website?

[OddHat]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Can I get a copy for the website?

 

Sure, glad to.

[Susano]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Sure' date=' glad to. [/quote']

 

If you could email me the hdc file, that would be great.

[Publius]

Re: The 300 HERO-fied?

 

Actually the 300 was sort of in a Hero product already. Okay, maybe only in my own head. On the planet Adamant (from Worlds of Empire), there is a City called Sparta on one of the continents, on the other end of that continent is a string of mountains along the coast and the "Thermal Gates Project" (I wanted to call it "Hot Gates" - as in 'Thermo Pylae' - but Steve rightly said it sounded like a Porn Star) between the coast and mountains. By the time I got to the project, the text for the book was already written but I envisioned a clash at the Project where a substantial force of Xenovores on the ground were held off by a small number of volunteers from Sparta during a raging storm and named it accordingly. I still think it would make a great adventure.