Wacky attack

[Kenn]

Would you allow the following build for an attack?

 

- 1 pip RKA, +44 STUN Multiplier (+11), 60 Active Points [1 pip * 1d6+43]

 

I believe that kind of extreme use of the increased STUN multiplier is, according to the 5th Edition is discouraged.

 

But, in practice, one would have an attack that would reliably do between 44 and 49 STUN (before defenses) and only a bare minimum of armour, force field, etc. would prevent the BODY of the attack.

 

Statitically, the average damage of 46.5 STUN is slightly better than the average of a 13 DC normal damage attack (45.5). But it does almost no body, and effectivly no knockback (which is not a limitation in this case).

 

So, is it worth the 8 pts. (65 / 1.25 = 52) to get nearly the same effectivness of say a 13d6 Energy Blast, Stun Only, no knockback(-1/4) to lose both the high and low ends of the damage range?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Would you allow the following build for an attack?

 

- 1 pip RKA, +44 STUN Multiplier (+11), 60 Active Points [1 pip * 1d6+43]

 

I believe that kind of extreme use of the increased STUN multiplier is, according to the 5th Edition is discouraged.

 

But, in practice, one would have an attack that would reliably do between 44 and 49 STUN (before defenses) and only a bare minimum of armour, force field, etc. would prevent the BODY of the attack.

 

Statitically, the average damage of 46.5 STUN is slightly better than the average of a 13 DC normal damage attack (45.5). But it does almost no body, and effectivly no knockback (which is not a limitation in this case).

 

So, is it worth the 8 pts. (65 / 1.25 = 52) to get nearly the same effectivness of say a 13d6 Energy Blast, Stun Only, no knockback(-1/4) to lose both the high and low ends of the damage range?

I'd have to think about it. It's nasty, alright. losing the high end is aptly compensated for losing the low end, IMO. The fact that this does FULL damage with no reduction against targets with no Resistant DEF makes it a bit more squirelly, but I might just allow it.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

I'd have to think about it. It's nasty' date=' alright. losing the high end is aptly compensated for losing the low end, IMO. The fact that this does FULL damage with no reduction against targets with no Resistant DEF makes it a bit more squirelly, but I might just allow it.[/quote']

 

 

Actually, to be fair, it should be compared to the equivalent amount of 'Standard Effect' damage.

 

60 Standard Effect Blast: EB 15d6 (standard effect: 45 STUN), STUN Only (+0) (75 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4) - END=7

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Wacky attack

 

But, in practice, one would have an attack that would reliably do between 44 and 49 STUN (before defenses) and only a bare minimum of armour, force field, etc. would prevent the BODY of the attack.

 

Where do you get your 44-49 range?

 

Edit: Eh, I was thinking something totally F'ed up. But yeah, Hyper-Man did catch a little mistake anyway. I could pretend that's what I was talking about, but I have this damnable honest streak.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Where do you get your 44-49 range?

 

You're right.

It should be 45-48 instead.

Or 46 if using Standard Effect.

 

60 Standard Stun Effect : RKA 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 46* STUN), Difficult To Dispel (+4 additional Increased STUN Multiplier) (x16 Active Points; *Because HD maxes out at +40 Increased STUN Multiplier; +1), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (60 Active Points) - END=6

[feralucce]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Dr Anomaly wrote something like this up... but it was aoe, one hex and no range... so it couldn't miss as long as it was adjacent...*shudder

[lemming]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Might as well throw AP on it as well. (Now we see the violence inherent in the system)

[Sean Waters]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Hmm.

 

Probably, but I'd want to know what it is you are modelling.

 

You are getting good reliable damage for your 60AP, but 4d6 RKA probably nets you more on average after defences, so it wouldn't bother me too much.

 

It is certainly more effective than a 12d6 stun only EB (I'd quibble with HM's 15d6 comparison - I can see why, but little or no KB is a KA think - it does with the territory - so I'd be comparing with a 12d6 blast personally), but then most 12d6 EBs will be more useful for damaging stuff.

 

Yes, I'd probably allow it, but I'd still want to know what it was you were modelling.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Wacky attack

 

You are getting good reliable damage for your 60AP' date=' but 4d6 RKA probably nets you more on average after defences, so it wouldn't bother me too much.[/quote']

 

In the 4e Ultimate Mystic pdf, there's a brief discussion of a game where players were challenged to build the most disruptive attack power on 60 AP. The winner? Not exotic attacks with lots of advantages, but a simple 4d6 RKA - the Stun Multiple coming up at awkward points disrupted the game more than anything else.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Hmm.

 

Probably, but I'd want to know what it is you are modelling.

 

You are getting good reliable damage for your 60AP, but 4d6 RKA probably nets you more on average after defences, so it wouldn't bother me too much.

 

It is certainly more effective than a 12d6 stun only EB (I'd quibble with HM's 15d6 comparison - I can see why, but little or no KB is a KA think - it does with the territory - so I'd be comparing with a 12d6 blast personally), but then most 12d6 EBs will be more useful for damaging stuff.

 

Yes, I'd probably allow it, but I'd still want to know what it was you were modelling.

 

You're right. I forgot that Stun Only was also No KB by default. (so did HDv3!).

 

So here's a couple of better examples for comparison:

 

60 Standard Effect Blast: EB 12d6 (standard effect: 36 STUN), STUN Only (+0) (60 Active Points) - END=6

 

60 Basic Stun Only Blast: EB 12d6 STUN Only (+0) (60 Active Points) - END=6

(Average = 42 STUN)

 

It's an even more compelling argument against the 1 pip RKA in my opinion.

[Grimble]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Actually, to be fair, it should be compared to the equivalent amount of 'Standard Effect' damage.

 

60 Standard Effect Blast: EB 15d6 (standard effect: 45 STUN), STUN Only (+0) (75 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4) - END=7

 

Actually, the average roll on a d6 is 3.5

 

that makes the average STUN on a 15d6 EB is 52.5

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Actually, the average roll on a d6 is 3.5

 

that makes the average STUN on a 15d6 EB is 52.5

 

Hey, I was just using the 'Standard Effect' (# of dice x 3) rule as written.

 

See my last post before this.

[Kenn]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Which is why I think the Standard Effect rule is broken.

[Zed-F]

Re: Wacky attack

 

The problem is not so much in using a 1 pip KA with an obscene stun multiple, as that you can then add bunches of other nifty advantages on top of that for essentially free. Why not make it a 1 pip KA NND with a +40 stun multiple instead? Or throw on AoE? Or Autofire? Might as well tack on Reduced End while you're at it...

 

This is why any power with +2 in advantages or more automatically becomes a stop sign power. If you want a KA with reams of stun multiple and no other advantages, it probably won't break anything... but then why not do it the normal way and save headache later when he wants to gussy up the attack a bit?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Might as well throw AP on it as well. (Now we see the violence inherent in the system)

 

Ok,

 

25 The Munchkinator!: RKA 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 42 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (75 Active Points); Side Effects (GM slaps player upside head for attempting to use such a silly power build; -1), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (GM smells cheese in the air; -1) - END=0

[MorpheousXO]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Ok,

 

25 The Munchkinator!: RKA 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 42 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (75 Active Points); Side Effects (GM slaps player silly for attempting to use such a silly power build; -1), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (GM smells cheese in the air; -1) - END=0

 

PWNED!!!!

 

[BNakagawa]

Re: Wacky attack

 

No, advantage stacking is for munchkins.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Ok,

 

25 The Munchkinator!: RKA 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 42 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (75 Active Points); Side Effects (GM slaps player silly for attempting to use such a silly power build; -1), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (GM smells cheese in the air; -1) - END=0

 

I'd rep you for that if I could!

 

The point is well made - by you, Zed-F and lemming - it is not so much THAT build, but where you can go from there, once the thin end of the wedge is in the crack.

 

I don't see that as a reason to disallow it necessarily, but adding any additional advantages would definitely get The Frown.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack #2

 

Here's another one:

 

20 Cheeze Wizzer (Limburger): EB 2d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Continuous (+1), 125 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+1 1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1), AVLD (Flash Defense Smell/Taste Group; +1 1/2) (80 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (After noticing how cheezy a build this is the GM "accidently" drops some type of cheezy food (nachos, pizza, etc..) on character sheet.; -1 1/2), Activation Roll 15-, Jammed (-3/4), IAF (Belgium Cheeze Wiz ; -1/2), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[125 cc]

[mattingly]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Even cheesier -- make the charges Boostable.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Even cheesier -- make the charges Boostable.

 

How's this?

 

25 NEW & IMPROVED Cheese Wizzer (Now with MORE Limburger!): EB 2d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Sticky (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1), 125 Boostable Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+1 1/2), AVLD (Flash Defense Smell/Taste Group; +1 1/2) (80 Active Points); Activation Roll 15-, Jammed (-3/4), Side Effects (After noticing how cheezy a build this is the GM "accidently" drops some type of cheezy food (nachos, pizza, etc..) on character sheet.; -3/4), IAF (Belgium Cheeze Wiz ; -1/2), Limited Range (-1/4) [Notes: HAZMAT suite not included.] - END=[125 bc]

[Kenn]

Re: Wacky attack

 

*Snicker*

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

*Snicker*

 

I'm Batman!

http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/jokebox/jibjab/id/578103/jokeid/114205

 

25 Grab a Snickers!: Major Transform 8d6 (standard effect: 24 points) (Target into "Batman!"), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4) (150 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; -1), Limited Power Target must eat candy bar (-1), All Or Nothing (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) [Notes: "I'm Batman!"] - END=[1]

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Now updated for 6e:

 

25 The Munchkinator!: Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 42 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2), Armor Piercing (x4; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (75 Active Points); Requires A Roll (13- roll; Jammed, Must be made each Phase/use; -1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (GM slaps player upside head for attempting to use such a silly power build; -1) 0

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Wacky attack

 

Ok,

 

25 The Munchkinator!: RKA 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 42 STUN), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), +40 Increased STUN Multiplier (+10) (75 Active Points); Side Effects (GM slaps player upside head for attempting to use such a silly power build; -1), Activation Roll 14-, Jammed (GM smells cheese in the air; -1) - END=0

 

This is another example of the the rule; Just because something can be built legally doesn't mean you should build/allow it. P.s. Hyper-man you use this and I'll buy Flying Dodge!