Jedi build ideas?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Hey all....I know this has probably been done before, but I'm introducing a jedi like character into a supers sampaign I'm running and am looking for general build opinions. The basic premise is that the movies are an interpretation of historical holographic documents that were recovered from a UFO crash site. The character in question has been frozen for a long time and has reawakened on earth. So...the jedi are real, but most of the public thinks they're movies(as they should). Anyways, any advice appreciated as far as powers, skills, lightsaber builds, or whatever.

 

Thanks

Rob

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

My son wanted a Jedi super, and I built it as a big "Force " multi, and added in a few extras

 

The light sabre can easily cause arguments, personally I'd be happy with a AP HKA, PEN if you really want it to cut most anything. A real fanatic might insist on NND, Does Body on a HKA...the fancier the cutter, the fewer points left for all the rest though.

 

Plus super heros usually don't Kill, so unless you like Iron age Jedi (now there's a phrase I never evisaged) I"d strongly recommend toning the light sabre down......

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

So list the force tricks you want, stuff 'em into a Multi sized for the game and go get 'em cowboy!

 

"The Force" Multi (62)

Mind trick u Mind controll 10D6 REnd

Psychokinetics u TK (this varys: Fine work?, reduced End?, Other mods?)

Remote viewing u Clair sense, add in futre/past other lims for flava...

 

 

Then add in "mindfullness" Def man IV, some extra end cost running, some "costs End" leaping

and your real close to "done"....then use Exp for the rest...

[Peregrine]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

The Force: Cosmic VPP with a skill roll. The stronger you are with the Force, the bigger your VPP.

 

Lightsaber: simple version, 2d6 HKA - covers the vast majority of what we see

on-screen; the few exceptions can be considered boosting the lightsaber with the Force VPP.

 

Other: Definitely some martial maneuvers with the lightsaber, and the usual martial artist's stuff (Defensive Maneuver IV, etc.), plus Missile Deflection/Reflection vs. energy attacks.

[Comic]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

For me, I'd build the Jedi abilities mainly as martial arts, usable with the laser weapon and Telekinesis. The Tk and KA would be relatively low in power, but the martial damage classes and potential maneuvers could grow fairly rapidly.

 

Sith could add a third usable weapon element, Force Lightning, but we're not talking about them, I think?

 

For the ability of the Jedi's weapon to penetrate anything, I'd prefer Find Weakness over Armor Piercing/Penetrating.

 

To my mind, the Jedi arts are mainly about learning and skill, not power and advantages.

 

Jedi high speed running and leaping, while superhuman don't appear superphysical and appear relatively reliable, so I'd build those as straight powers with Succor from use of the same framework as the Telekinesis. Their SPD seems to be on the scale of supermartial artists, so that would be a high characteristic. Their clairvoyance and telepathy appear to be based on the same skills as they use for their martial arts, so I'd base them on a skill roll and allow them in the same framework as the telekinesis and succor. Since TK, Succor, Clairvoyance and Telepathy all cost Endurance and share a common special effect and common disadvantages (a Jedi who can't do one can't do all), I'd build this as an Elemental Control.

 

They definitely have missile deflection based on their laser weapon, which has at least two powers plus use throwing, so it seems to be a natural argument for an OAF multipower.

 

I wouldn't make them pay for the 'Strike Me Down and I Will Become More Powerful Than You Could Possibly Imagine' effect.

[BlackSword]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

The best Jedi as a Superhero I have seen is the Mace Windu episode in Genndy Tartakovsky's animated Clone Wars microseries on Cartoon Network. In the second season they had Windu and Yoda fight entire droid armies as well. From memory a few of the force tricks he performed were:

• Super speed, super leap
  
• Super strength/martial arts (he was punching holes in the droids)
  
• Area of Effect Knockback
  
• Disassemble a droid by TKing all of its nuts and bolts out
  
• Using disassembled droid as an area effect range attack by using TK to pick up the pieces and accelerate them into more droids
  
• Ranged crush, used TK to destroy to droid weapons.

The mind powers seem fairly low powered. You can usually convince someone to do something that is not too far outside their nature. Also there are several people/beings that can block the Jedi mind trick.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

i have created a HERO Star Wars game that is right on the balance line of Supers and Heroic, so it may be of use to you, as a lot of thought went into making it feel like the movies (of course, some things will change because their are several "in this campaign" type rules, but the basics may help you.

 

the link is here:

 

http://shadow-play.net/HERO/StarWars/star%20wars%20manual.pdf

http://shadow-play.net/HERO/StarWars/star%20wars%20HERO%20Designer%20files.exe

 

again, alot will have to get repurposed, but i have written up jedi combat forms (UMA style) created all the force powers seen in the movies and games, created a light side/dark side system, etc. it even has package deals for the type of jedi he may want to be (guardian, sentinel, etc). hope that helps.

 

EDIT: oh, it is set up to be set at the begining of the Republic, 24,000 years before the movies, so many of the species packages either aren't there, or will go away, before you get to the movie time period. if you would like any info on other races, give me a pm, and we'll see what we can do.

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

I'll agree with Comic on the idea of the Lightsaber as primarily a martial arts thing. From what I recall of the West End game, the actual damage done by a lightsaber was from the training the individual had, rather than the power of the blade itself. (By itself, it was pretty much just a melee-ranged heavy blaster.)

 

The ability to cut through anything came from the focus and training of the Jedi - which can easily be described as a 2d AP HKA focus with Martial Arts DC's. I'll also agree that the various jedi lightsaber techniques are pretty much just martial arts moves and Defensive Maneuvers, for the most part.

 

So, yeah - Cosmic VPP with skill roll tends to cover the West End way of doing Force powers, which I prefer to the D20 version. If I was doing it, though, I'd also have a "General Jedi Fighting Style" EC with the most-commonly-used Offense, Defense, Sense, and Movement powers - but that's just my build philosophy.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

I built the lightsabers as attacks with limited defense, rather than NND's, and of course they did body. Force fields stopped them.

 

I prefer the multipower approach, since really Jedi's don't have that wide a variety of powers. I required the Jedi to buy END batteries, though, and these batteries had to have the disadvantage that they were easily detectable through "Detect Force" -- the guys with the biggest batteries could be noticed from interstellar distances.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

I was thinking about this recently.

 

I figure that anyone with opposable digits ought to be able to use a lightsaber to some extent. But probably not to anywhere near its full potential.

 

So, I'd build it as a 2d6 KA with maybe AP or something. Then let any jedi purchase naked advantages to make it truly horrific.

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

You are all of course forgetting a Mind Control ability with Gestures (hand wave) and Limited Power (Only one simple, one-sentance suggestion at a time).

 

I'd say the Saber is 2d6 KA, APx2 Penx2, OAF (Lightsaber), 1/2 END, No Knockback

[Korvar]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Defence Manoeuvre / Lightning Reflexes and so forth to simulate their Jedi Reflexes / Precog abilities.

[assault]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Then let any jedi purchase naked advantages to make it truly horrific.

 

The degree of horror would depend on what species they were, wouldn't it. After all, some of them look quite nice when they're naked...

[Comic]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Star Wars seems to use force fields to increase ED beyond the normal properties of a material, so it's natural that a force field would be a better defense against an energy weapon.

 

For 'combat balance' most things in Star Wars that tend to have force fields appear vulnerable to physical attacks (hence Jedi punching robots, or using tk to disassemble them). Maybe Yoda plays Champions?

[Mister E]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Hey all....I know this has probably been done before, but I'm introducing a jedi like character into a supers sampaign I'm running and am looking for general build opinions. The basic premise is that the movies are an interpretation of historical holographic documents that were recovered from a UFO crash site. The character in question has been frozen for a long time and has reawakened on earth. So...the jedi are real, but most of the public thinks they're movies(as they should). Anyways, any advice appreciated as far as powers, skills, lightsaber builds, or whatever.

 

Thanks

Rob

 

Heh... you've probably never heard of Cosmic Awareness, but my mother used to subscribe to their newsletter back her hard-core New Aged days. The thing I remember most about them, is that they once said that all the STAR-WARS stuff was more or less for real... and that Lucas had channelled the story from actual events in outer space.

 

Nutters, all... complete with Illuminati conspiracies and whatnot... but fun to play around with. They make Scientologists seem ridiculously unimaginative.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

there have been corrections to the PDF linked above, as well as HERO Designer files in a self-extracting .ace archive. hope you guys get some use out of this stuff!

[wcw43921]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

My son wanted a Jedi super, and I built it as a big "Force " multi, and added in a few extras

 

The light sabre can easily cause arguments, personally I'd be happy with a AP HKA, PEN if you really want it to cut most anything. A real fanatic might insist on NND, Does Body on a HKA...the fancier the cutter, the fewer points left for all the rest though.

 

Plus super heros usually don't Kill, so unless you like Iron age Jedi (now there's a phrase I never evisaged) I"d strongly recommend toning the light sabre down......

 

I read an article in the first issue of WoTC's STAR WARS Gamer, in which they explained that the reason Jedi Knights carried such a lethal weapon as the lightsaber was to remind them of the extreme and often permanent consequences of violence, and that it was only to be used as the last resort. This was demonstrated in A New Hope, where Obi-Wan Kenobi tried to buy the guy harrassing Luke a drink, and only when he went for his blaster did Obi-Wan draw his saber and slice the guy up. This was also illustrated in Attack Of The Clones in the bar scene on Coruscant when the bounty hunter tries to sneak up on Obi-Wan, and he takes off her hand rather than killing her.

 

Of course, dismemberment can be as Iron-Age as killing--but rather than tone down the lightsaber, I would recommend using it mostly for presence attacks, or to cut through a door or wall. Perhaps the Psych Lim: Jedi Code Of Honor is in order, which would have the provision, "Do not use deadly force unless attacked or threatened with deadly force." Which means when the VIPER agents show up and fire upon you, then you can draw and go all Mace Windu on them. Same for guys like Grond, Firewing, or Doctor Destroyer--whom I imagine could make even The Emperor stain his black velour cloak.

 

Just my two cents to throw into the ante.

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Good points...but dude "I only throw down on dudes that throw down on me" dosen't likely qualify as a disadd worth points in a supers/adventure game....it's more roll playing flava then an actual limit.

 

I recomend a Multi for the Force for sanity reasons.....all the powers are spelled out, and little time gets wasted.

 

Also some folks just can't handle a VPP...many years ago I had a dude play a VPP: The Force. First game session he used his VPP for Growth, Flight and FTL (who needs a star ship?) We talked after the game. He agreed to make some changes....then never showed again. Either life interfered...or "The Force" was just an excuse to play a VPP.......

 

Going Multi also alows more than one Jedi, and each can have their own specialtys....

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

I read an article in the first issue of WoTC's STAR WARS Gamer' date=' in which they explained that the reason Jedi Knights carried such a lethal weapon as the lightsaber was to remind them of the extreme and often permanent consequences of violence, and that it was only to be used as the last resort. This was demonstrated in [i']A New Hope[/i], where Obi-Wan Kenobi tried to buy the guy harrassing Luke a drink, and only when he went for his blaster did Obi-Wan draw his saber and slice the guy up. This was also illustrated in Attack Of The Clones in the bar scene on Coruscant when the bounty hunter tries to sneak up on Obi-Wan, and he takes off her hand rather than killing her.

 

Of course, dismemberment can be as Iron-Age as killing--but rather than tone down the lightsaber, I would recommend using it mostly for presence attacks, or to cut through a door or wall. Perhaps the Psych Lim: Jedi Code Of Honor is in order, which would have the provision, "Do not use deadly force unless attacked or threatened with deadly force." Which means when the VIPER agents show up and fire upon you, then you can draw and go all Mace Windu on them. Same for guys like Grond, Firewing, or Doctor Destroyer--whom I imagine could make even The Emperor stain his black velour cloak.

 

Just my two cents to throw into the ante.

 

Actually...I'd go so far as to say that a jedi wouldn't use his lightsaber on an opponent threatening him unless they were using a like weapon...after all VIPER agents can't really harm a proper jedi...so using his saber on them...even if they were trying to kill him..doesn't seem right.

 

Rob

[wcw43921]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Actually...I'd go so far as to say that a jedi wouldn't use his lightsaber on an opponent threatening him unless they were using a like weapon...after all VIPER agents can't really harm a proper jedi...so using his saber on them...even if they were trying to kill him..doesn't seem right.

 

Rob

 

Hmm--you have a point when it comes to VIPER agents; they're actually more individuals than battle droids, or even clone/stormtroopers.

 

(Can we still go all Windu on VIPER tanks and other combat vehicles? )

 

Perhaps some other sort of signature device/weapon is in order. Keep the power set of "physically-fit well-trained mentalist" but instead of a lightsaber the character could have a force-field belt, or a personal teleporter. Maybe even something as simple as a battle-staff made of super-indestructible metal that could deflect bullets (or even energy blasts) and clobber the bad guys at melee range.

 

Another pair of pennies for the ante.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

it generally stands that Jedi only use their sabers in combat when their is no alternative. they will exhaust every possible course of action (diplomacy, etc) before engaging in violence. however, when violence is provoked, they do not hesitate to saber down the foes who stand in their way, seeking the fastest possible conclusion to the regretable violence they have been forced to partake it.

 

it doesn't matter what weapon the other guy is wielding, if he will not reason, he will be given the saber.

 

however, force push, force stun, and their hand to hand styles (based on echani techniques) are all options against living targets that are, for instance, not the true cause of the evil (mind control, etc) or someone they want to capture.

 

also, Form I: Shii-Cho style is dedicated to disarms and disables, using the lightsaber not to kill but to maim in non-lethal ways, and Form III: Soresu is almost entirely defensive in nature, making more use of the Missle Deflection abilities.

 

but it can not be stressed enough that Jedi will meet force with force. if someone is trying to kill them, they do not hesitate to eleminate the threat. they are also known for going for head hanchos, and ignoring henchmen, although their are cases of Jedi wading through an army of henchmen as well, so it just depends. the main idea, however, is a quick, relatively painless end to violenece once it happens, both for the Jedi's safety (much like a policeman using his gun) and the saftey of any innocents in the area.

[OctoberRaven]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

Here's a 200-point Generic Jedi character sheet I came up with. Feel free to modify this as your campaign requires.

 

STR 15

DEX 20

CON 15

BODY 15

INT 15

EGO 23

PRE 18

COM 15

PD 17 (12rPD), see Talents

ED 17 (12rPD), see Talents

SPD 4

REC 10

END 30

STUN 30

Running 6

Swimming 2

Leaping 3

 

Skills:

3 Stealth 13-

3 KS: Jedi Lore 12-

3 Conversation 13-

 

Perks:

5 Fringe Benefit: Knight, Low Justice

 

Talents:

24 Combat Luck 12/12

 

Powers

25 The Force: Elemental Control, 50-point pool, all slots require an EGO roll (no AP penalty)

17 1) Jedi Reflexes: +6 to All Combat, Costs Endurance. END = 5

20 2) Force TK: Telekinesis 27 STR. END =5

20 3) Force Speed: Aid DEX 5d6, Costs Endurance (Only to activate). END = 5

9 4) Mind Trick: Mind Control 7d6 (Human, Alien, Animal), Power Oses Half Effectiveness (Command must be a simple phrase), Eye Contact Required, Instant, Gestures. END = 5

23 Lightsaber: HKA 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), 1/2 End, AP x2, Pen x2, Independant, OAF, No Knockbock. END = 4

 

Disadvantages:

25 PL: Code of Honor (V. Common, Total)

25 PL: Dedicated to Keeping the Peace (V. Common, Total)

20 SL: Subject to Orders (Freq., Severe)

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

it generally stands that Jedi only use their sabers in combat when their is no alternative. they will exhaust every possible course of action (diplomacy, etc) before engaging in violence. however, when violence is provoked, they do not hesitate to saber down the foes who stand in their way, seeking the fastest possible conclusion to the regretable violence they have been forced to partake it.

 

it doesn't matter what weapon the other guy is wielding, if he will not reason, he will be given the saber.

 

however, force push, force stun, and their hand to hand styles (based on echani techniques) are all options against living targets that are, for instance, not the true cause of the evil (mind control, etc) or someone they want to capture.

 

also, Form I: Shii-Cho style is dedicated to disarms and disables, using the lightsaber not to kill but to maim in non-lethal ways, and Form III: Soresu is almost entirely defensive in nature, making more use of the Missle Deflection abilities.

 

but it can not be stressed enough that Jedi will meet force with force. if someone is trying to kill them, they do not hesitate to eleminate the threat. they are also known for going for head hanchos, and ignoring henchmen, although their are cases of Jedi wading through an army of henchmen as well, so it just depends. the main idea, however, is a quick, relatively painless end to violenece once it happens, both for the Jedi's safety (much like a policeman using his gun) and the saftey of any innocents in the area.

 

I think we may be drifting off point here...we're not building a "Jedi", we're building a Super hero Jedi....so unless you feel that Wolverine and the punisher are a couple a pansys, I don't think a dude who beleives in a system of "I try hard to reason, if that won't work I kill them all" is going to fit in anything less than a full on Iron age game......

[eternal_sage]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

it would depend on the player...

 

but yea, i have a tendency toward iron age, so i guess i can see where we diverge .

 

i do think that a creative player could do alot in this vein, making use of presence attacks, mind tricks, and push and pull (disarms and throws, tk style). but maybe not, or maybe in session it would be to much of a hastle to structure things this way (never really tried it, as Star Wars is very pulpy, in my somewhat uneducated opinion, so all baddies are expendable, no big deal).

 

i guess it just comes down to judgement call, and we are of differing opinions on the particulars.

 

if i think of anything else, i pipe up, although i admit to being stymied at the moment.

 

and no, Punisher and Wolverine are not pansies, although only Punisher is really very interesting, imho.

[pinecone]

Re: Jedi build ideas?

 

it would depend on the player...

 

but yea, i have a tendency toward iron age, so i guess i can see where we diverge .

 

i do think that a creative player could do alot in this vein, making use of presence attacks, mind tricks, and push and pull (disarms and throws, tk style). but maybe not, or maybe in session it would be to much of a hastle to structure things this way (never really tried it, as Star Wars is very pulpy, in my somewhat uneducated opinion, so all baddies are expendable, no big deal).

 

i guess it just comes down to judgement call, and we are of differing opinions on the particulars.

 

if i think of anything else, i pipe up, although i admit to being stymied at the moment.

 

and no, Punisher and Wolverine are not pansies, although only Punisher is really very interesting, imho.

 

Yeah it is a "flava" issue...but most champs games barely reach Bronze levels of "Yikes"...and if you are going to end up with a Code vs kill...even if weak or a "Soldiers/Cops code" theres no need for an excessivly deadly cutter...

Even a 2D6 AP HKA will be in the 3+1 to 4D6 range with strength and MA so that Should be enough slash for most anyone...